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Old
02-27-2013, 11:57 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
This is the thinking behind the deal. He's currently playing very well, by far our best D playing D and I don't think other GMs see RoB or Hunwick as adding ANYTHING to any deal.

By the time Hejda's contract expires, we'll be in position to really compete and who knows how much gas he'll have by then.

Where does Hejda fit into this:

EJ
Seth Jones*
Trouba
Barrie
Wilson

Siemens

If we move him out, we give the reigns, for better or for worse to Barrie and Elliott and maybe even bring up Gaunce to see what he's got. I can't for the life of me, see this team winning 18 out of the next 30. It's not impossible but the way we are playing, I just don't see it. Anyways, food for thought.
I'd personally like to keep Hejda, if only for the fact that he allows Barrie more freedom to roam out there. I think he will be important in Barrie's development and see that benefit greater than trading him right now.

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02-27-2013, 12:03 PM
  #152
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So, I've been thinking about this and I believe I've come up with the perfect trade scenario:

To WPG:
O'Reilly,C
Hejda,LD

To COL:
Little,C/RW
Trouba,RD

This does 2 things, (1) gives us a good roster player to try and replace RoR and a very good prospect for the future and (2) much like the Anderson for Elliott trade, it depletes our D-corps even further by giving up our best defensive d-man to the point where we might as well play run & gun every game because we're just not going to stop the opposition from scoring.

We have 30 games left and I believe we need to go at least 18-12 to get into the playoffs. With our lineup perfectly healthy, that's already a tall order.

Trade off whatever good available assets we might have at the deadline and finish with a top 5 pick. (Seems like this is going to happen even if we don't make this trade! )
Dont mind me, peaceful Winnipeg fan just poking in.

2 things. A Dman as part of the package doesn't really suit the Jets, since that's our position of strength long term, (Bogosian, Buff, Enstrom, and soon Trouba, and we're hoping, if he heals well, Redmond) and Chevy doesn't seem like the kind of GM to make a BIG move like that and get an asset in return as a stopgap in a spot we're only temporarily weak at. Not that I've watched Hejda play at all, but at 34, he doesn't likely do much for chevy's strategy other than fill a short term gap.

And I'm also of the opinion that I think this organization is going to hold on HARD to their first few draft picks, as part of us 'putting the stamp' on this team. Just sort of as a current philosophy given that this is only our second year with the team etc. Could be wrong, but I think the only player with more Trade value (as the jets percieve) than Trouba is Bogo. Both guys (and Shieffle is in that catergory for another year or two as well) would need a MASSIVE over payment, which given how much interest there is in ROR, there would be no reason for you guys to make. While we unreasonably overvalue trouba given the "prospect" risk, that's just going to come with the territory I think.

I think any deal would have to be primarily around Little or Burmistrov if it were to happen, unless we're talking big packages being thrown around, and then obviously all bets are off.

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02-27-2013, 12:03 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
This is the thinking behind the deal. He's currently playing very well, by far our best D playing D and I don't think other GMs see RoB or Hunwick as adding ANYTHING to any deal.

By the time Hejda's contract expires, we'll be in position to really compete and who knows how much gas he'll have by then.

Where does Hejda fit into this:

EJ
Seth Jones*
Trouba
Barrie
Wilson

Siemens

If we move him out, we give the reigns, for better or for worse to Barrie and Elliott and maybe even bring up Gaunce to see what he's got. I can't for the life of me, see this team winning 18 out of the next 30. It's not impossible but the way we are playing, I just don't see it. Anyways, food for thought.
Hejda's contract expires after 14-15, we can worry about how much he has left in the tank in 2014. We need Hejda for a solid presence on the left side while Barrie and Elliott are getting their legs underneath them at this level. Barrie said last night in an interview that he just keeps gaining more and more confidence with every game, a good part of that has to do with Hejda. For Hejda, it isn't about competing with him now, it is about giving the younger defensemen somebody they can play with on a pairing and rely on.

If Barrie and/or Elliott are doing well at the end of next season, and we have somebody that can step into Hejda's role, then maybe we think about trading him. At this point there is no way we should trade him.

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:05 PM
  #154
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At least he knows when he shouldn't say something, unlike his dad.

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #155
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I wasn't impressed with that interview. (thanks for posting it, though)

Sounded like he said he won't talk right now, but he'll run his mouth when it's all finished.

Or maybe I'm just a cynic.
I hope he does or at least gives some idea of what happened, or what was said. It would really be annoying if we had to watch him get traded, and not really know why it got to that point.

If it does somehow turn out to be mostly the Avs fault, somebody needs to shame them publicly enough so that they stop doing this to players. Even if it turns out Ryan was still being unreasonable, I hope he shames the Avs a bit. I'm sick of their tyrannical approach, and taking their entire fanbase for granted by putting them through crap like this, and crappy coaches, and losing seasons, and not putting more than the bare minimum in dollars into the team and arena.

They need some sort of public repercussions. They never talk to the media about anything, and never acknowledge any bad situation, or bad season, or say more than two words anything, so it's like it never happened. They just keep on doing business as usual, and don't face any pressure to do things any different.

I hope O'Reilly rips them apart, whether he's right or wrong.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 02-27-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old
02-27-2013, 12:38 PM
  #156
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With the new realignment play, would someone like Edmonton be in play now? Been lots of Oiler fan interest in ROR. Klefbom???? ???

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I hope he does or at least gives some idea of what happened, or what was said. It would really be annoying if we had to watch him get traded, and not really know why it got to that point.

If it does somehow turn out to be mostly the Avs fault, somebody needs to shame them publicly enough so that they stop doing this to players. Even if it turns out Ryan was still being unreasonable, I hope he shames the Avs a bit. I'm sick of their tyrannical approach, and taking their entire fanbase for granted by putting them through crap like this, and crappy coaches, and losing seasons, and not putting more than the bare minimum in dollars into the team and arena.

They need some sort of public repercussions. They never talk to the media about anything, and never acknowledge any bad situation, or bad season, or say more than two words anything, so it's like it never happened. They just keep on doing business as usual, and don't face any pressure to do things any different.

I hope O'Reilly rips them apart, whether he's right or wrong.
Well said. This insular, incestuous organization needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt from scratch. Apart from Rick Pracey and his scouts, I want everyone gone. Their hubris at least was justifiable in the heyday of Sakic/Forsberg, not so much now. Too bad ownership is on the same page the Lacroix Brain Trust.

The Avalanche Twitter feed is a prime example of how out of touch this organization is with its fans. The team's losing and getting badly outshot in last night's game, and yet they come out with a happy-happy-joy-joy tweet about Patrick Bordeleau getting his first NHL point. Unreal.

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02-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Well said. This insular, incestuous organization needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt from scratch. Apart from Rick Pracey and his scouts, I want everyone gone. Their hubris at least was justifiable in the heyday of Sakic/Forsberg, not so much now. Too bad ownership is on the same page the Lacroix Brain Trust.

The Avalanche Twitter feed is a prime example of how out of touch this organization is with its fans. The team's losing and getting badly outshot in last night's game, and yet they come out with a happy-happy-joy-joy tweet about Patrick Bordeleau getting his first NHL point. Unreal.
It's really a slap in the face to fans. They think they can just make coaching and personel decisions that result in losing seasons, and then use their Kroenke owned media coverage to fart out rainbows all day.

Then the top brass hunkers down like friggin Bin Laden all year and never acknowledges anything bad happening, or ugly contract disputes, and their owner is completely clueless.

They're like teflon dons. Nothing touches them. So they just keep hiring their buddies as crappy coaches because they think they can mold their style, and run players out of town like the damn mob because they didn't respect them enough.

Meanwhile fans are still paying big bucks for tickets in a somewhat outdated arena, and trying to get answers as to what's going on with the team, or just what's going on in general, and they're met with silence because the Avs don't feel the need to connect in any way with the people paying their salaries. It's pathetic.

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02-27-2013, 01:11 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by winterpeg View Post
Dont mind me, peaceful Winnipeg fan just poking in.

2 things. A Dman as part of the package doesn't really suit the Jets, since that's our position of strength long term, (Bogosian, Buff, Enstrom, and soon Trouba, and we're hoping, if he heals well, Redmond) and Chevy doesn't seem like the kind of GM to make a BIG move like that and get an asset in return as a stopgap in a spot we're only temporarily weak at. Not that I've watched Hejda play at all, but at 34, he doesn't likely do much for chevy's strategy other than fill a short term gap.

And I'm also of the opinion that I think this organization is going to hold on HARD to their first few draft picks, as part of us 'putting the stamp' on this team. Just sort of as a current philosophy given that this is only our second year with the team etc. Could be wrong, but I think the only player with more Trade value (as the jets percieve) than Trouba is Bogo. Both guys (and Shieffle is in that catergory for another year or two as well) would need a MASSIVE over payment, which given how much interest there is in ROR, there would be no reason for you guys to make. While we unreasonably overvalue trouba given the "prospect" risk, that's just going to come with the territory I think.

I think any deal would have to be primarily around Little or Burmistrov if it were to happen, unless we're talking big packages being thrown around, and then obviously all bets are off.
Ok, I heard on more than one occasion that your needs were D-men (same as ours) and that's why I made the proposal. After having watched the Jets (replay on NHL-N right now) against the Rangers, I have to agree with YOUR assessment, the Jets don't really need D. (not sure what those other Jets fans were talking about) With Bogo, Buff, Enstrom as a top 3, you guys are fine going forward.

I get what you're saying and believe me, fans of other teams saying 'massive overpayment is needed' is certainly nothing new for Avs fans to hear. Over the years, due to unsubstantiated rumors, Stastny was set to become a leaf anytime now. When Avs fans suggested a few years back that Luke Schenn would need to be part of the package coming back the other way, they would scoff and reject it out of hand because getting Luke Schenn would require a 'massive overpayment'. When rumors surfaced about the Avs being interested in JVR, the response was 'Duchene+' and then those guys get traded for one another. While both are performing well by all accounts, the point is that neither was traded for what each fanbase had anticipated.

No matter how much the Avs like Bryan Little, I doubt very seriously that he's the main piece coming back in any deal for Winnipeg.

It's also kind of funny that if you REWIND a mere 9 months ago, the day of the NHL draft, if anyone had suggested that the Avs were prepared to trade Ryan O'Reilly to the Winnipeg Jets for Bryan Little and the 9th overall selection in the draft that day, Avs fans would have laughed and laughed and laughed. (and rightfully so)

NOT ONE Avs fans actually WANTS to trade RoR but it seems we have to. We are now trying to find good value but teams that believe they can offer up a good but unspectacular player + a 2nd round pick are completely out to lunch.

By the way, I don't blame the Jets organization for wanting to hold on to their prospects and build their team, they have the right to do so. My personal belief is that players like RoR are not available very often and that is why there are so many teams interested. At some point, there's going to be a team that will be willing to give up what is necessary to acquire him.

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02-27-2013, 01:11 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
It's really a slap in the face to fans. They think they can just make coaching and personel decisions that result in losing seasons, and then use their Kroenke owned media coverage to fart out rainbows all day.

Then the top brass hunkers down like friggin Bin Laden all year and never acknowledges anything bad happening, or ugly contract disputes, and their owner is completely clueless.

They're like teflon dons. Nothing touches them. So they just keep hiring their buddies as crappy coaches because they think they can mold their style, and run players out of town like the damn mob because they didn't respect them enough.

Meanwhile fans are still paying big bucks for tickets in a somewhat outdated arena, and trying to get answers as to what's going on with the team, or just what's going on in general, and they're met with silence because the Avs don't feel the need to connect in any way with the people paying their salaries. It's pathetic.
"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

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02-27-2013, 01:17 PM
  #161
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When is the trading deadline this season? I just want to trade this kid already. Cant wait until the summer...

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02-27-2013, 01:19 PM
  #162
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When is the trading deadline this season? I just want to trade this kid already. Cant wait until the summer...
Wednesday, April 3 -- NHL trade deadline (3 p.m.)

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Old
02-27-2013, 01:45 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
It's really a slap in the face to fans. They think they can just make coaching and personel decisions that result in losing seasons, and then use their Kroenke owned media coverage to fart out rainbows all day.

Then the top brass hunkers down like friggin Bin Laden all year and never acknowledges anything bad happening, or ugly contract disputes, and their owner is completely clueless.

They're like teflon dons. Nothing touches them. So they just keep hiring their buddies as crappy coaches because they think they can mold their style, and run players out of town like the damn mob because they didn't respect them enough.

Meanwhile fans are still paying big bucks for tickets in a somewhat outdated arena, and trying to get answers as to what's going on with the team, or just what's going on in general, and they're met with silence because the Avs don't feel the need to connect in any way with the people paying their salaries. It's pathetic.
that's the best assessment of this organization I've ever read. Spot 100% on and accurate. The folks that don't buy this are still brainwashed.

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02-27-2013, 02:06 PM
  #164
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Haven't heard any rumors at all for a few days...a deal must be close.

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02-27-2013, 02:12 PM
  #165
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Haven't heard any rumors at all for a few days...a deal must be close.
You jixed us....

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02-27-2013, 02:16 PM
  #166
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You jixed us....
BAN HIM!

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02-27-2013, 02:21 PM
  #167
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Ok, I heard on more than one occasion that your needs were D-men (same as ours) and that's why I made the proposal. After having watched the Jets (replay on NHL-N right now) against the Rangers, I have to agree with YOUR assessment, the Jets don't really need D. (not sure what those other Jets fans were talking about) With Bogo, Buff, Enstrom as a top 3, you guys are fine going forward.

I get what you're saying and believe me, fans of other teams saying 'massive overpayment is needed' is certainly nothing new for Avs fans to hear. Over the years, due to unsubstantiated rumors, Stastny was set to become a leaf anytime now. When Avs fans suggested a few years back that Luke Schenn would need to be part of the package coming back the other way, they would scoff and reject it out of hand because getting Luke Schenn would require a 'massive overpayment'. When rumors surfaced about the Avs being interested in JVR, the response was 'Duchene+' and then those guys get traded for one another. While both are performing well by all accounts, the point is that neither was traded for what each fanbase had anticipated.

No matter how much the Avs like Bryan Little, I doubt very seriously that he's the main piece coming back in any deal for Winnipeg.

It's also kind of funny that if you REWIND a mere 9 months ago, the day of the NHL draft, if anyone had suggested that the Avs were prepared to trade Ryan O'Reilly to the Winnipeg Jets for Bryan Little and the 9th overall selection in the draft that day, Avs fans would have laughed and laughed and laughed. (and rightfully so)

NOT ONE Avs fans actually WANTS to trade RoR but it seems we have to. We are now trying to find good value but teams that believe they can offer up a good but unspectacular player + a 2nd round pick are completely out to lunch.

By the way, I don't blame the Jets organization for wanting to hold on to their prospects and build their team, they have the right to do so. My personal belief is that players like RoR are not available very often and that is why there are so many teams interested. At some point, there's going to be a team that will be willing to give up what is necessary to acquire him.
With the Jets going 4-1 on their last road trip, I think whatever deal that was cooking is probably cooling off for the time being.

Jets likely made a respectable offer but naturally Avs wanted more...now that the Jets are playing some solid hockey, maybe management sticks to it's original offer and says we're in no hurry to shake things up.

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02-27-2013, 02:23 PM
  #168
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With the Jets going 4-1 on their last road trip, I think whatever deal that was cooking is probably cooling off for the time being.

Jets likely made a respectable offer but naturally Avs wanted more...now that the Jets are playing some solid hockey, maybe management sticks to it's original offer and says we're in no hurry to shake things up.
OK, but by the time the Jets are ready to deal again, O'Reilly could be playing better and... ...oh, that's right... ...nevermind.

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02-27-2013, 02:29 PM
  #169
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Ok, I heard on more than one occasion that your needs were D-men (same as ours) and that's why I made the proposal. After having watched the Jets (replay on NHL-N right now) against the Rangers, I have to agree with YOUR assessment, the Jets don't really need D. (not sure what those other Jets fans were talking about) With Bogo, Buff, Enstrom as a top 3, you guys are fine going forward.

I get what you're saying and believe me, fans of other teams saying 'massive overpayment is needed' is certainly nothing new for Avs fans to hear. Over the years, due to unsubstantiated rumors, Stastny was set to become a leaf anytime now. When Avs fans suggested a few years back that Luke Schenn would need to be part of the package coming back the other way, they would scoff and reject it out of hand because getting Luke Schenn would require a 'massive overpayment'. When rumors surfaced about the Avs being interested in JVR, the response was 'Duchene+' and then those guys get traded for one another. While both are performing well by all accounts, the point is that neither was traded for what each fanbase had anticipated.

No matter how much the Avs like Bryan Little, I doubt very seriously that he's the main piece coming back in any deal for Winnipeg.

It's also kind of funny that if you REWIND a mere 9 months ago, the day of the NHL draft, if anyone had suggested that the Avs were prepared to trade Ryan O'Reilly to the Winnipeg Jets for Bryan Little and the 9th overall selection in the draft that day, Avs fans would have laughed and laughed and laughed. (and rightfully so)

NOT ONE Avs fans actually WANTS to trade RoR but it seems we have to. We are now trying to find good value but teams that believe they can offer up a good but unspectacular player + a 2nd round pick are completely out to lunch.

By the way, I don't blame the Jets organization for wanting to hold on to their prospects and build their team, they have the right to do so. My personal belief is that players like RoR are not available very often and that is why there are so many teams interested. At some point, there's going to be a team that will be willing to give up what is necessary to acquire him.
The problem in my eyes is that Little really isn't that far off value wise from O'Reilly. He's put up similar point totals from the wing or center position, he just doesn't have the intangibles, and elite defensive play.

The Avs would have to add something fairly big in addition to O'Reilly for that second piece coming back to be better than Lilttle. I don't think a depth defender like Wilson or O'Brien would be enough.

The second piece seems like it would likely be a prospect or something with less value than Little. Unless they get really creative with the deal somehow.

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02-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #170
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With the Jets going 4-1 on their last road trip, I think whatever deal that was cooking is probably cooling off for the time being.

Jets likely made a respectable offer but naturally Avs wanted more...now that the Jets are playing some solid hockey, maybe management sticks to it's original offer and says we're in no hurry to shake things up.
I actually think that the Jets would be more likely to do the deal. They would be able to improve their center position plus be able to strengthen their bottom 6/pairing by giving up a center who isn't as good as ROR (Little) and a prospect. If you want to make a run in the playoffs you are more willing to use prospects as trade bait if it improves your team now.

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02-27-2013, 02:47 PM
  #171
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I actually think that the Jets would be more likely to do the deal. They would be able to improve their center position plus be able to strengthen their bottom 6/pairing by giving up a center who isn't as good as ROR (Little) and a prospect. If you want to make a run in the playoffs you are more willing to use prospects as trade bait if it improves your team now.
The problem is, we inherited a team without any top prospects in the cupboard (our top young talent of Kane, Bogosian, and Burmistrov all made Atl's roster their draft year). Management has made it clear that we're building through the draft and we're in no rush to make the playoffs with our building sold out the first 3 years. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

On the topic of defensive prospects outside of Trouba, our next highest prospects are Postma and Redmond who are both 7th rounders!


Last edited by ahplk: 02-27-2013 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Noting our sad defensive outlook
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02-27-2013, 02:57 PM
  #172
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The problem is, we inherited a team without any top prospects in the cupboard (our top young talent of Kane, Bogosian, and Burmistrov all made Atl's roster their draft year). Management has made it clear that we're building through the draft and we're in no rush to make the playoffs with our building sold out the first 3 years. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
O'Reilly was drafted the same year as Kane and the year after Bogosian was drafted. I know fans have an emotional tie to 'their' young players, but trading for O'Reilly wouldn't mean a change in direction. It would still be part of a youth movement.

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02-27-2013, 03:04 PM
  #173
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O'Reilly was drafted the same year as Kane and the year after Bogosian was drafted. I know fans have an emotional tie to 'their' young players, but trading for O'Reilly wouldn't mean a change in direction. It would still be part of a youth movement.
If Colorado can manage to pry Little (pretty much a given according to TPS) + Kane/Bogosian/Trouba in a trade for ROR+, I'll eat my hat.

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02-27-2013, 03:10 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by ahplk View Post
The problem is, we inherited a team without any top prospects in the cupboard (our top young talent of Kane, Bogosian, and Burmistrov all made Atl's roster their draft year). Management has made it clear that we're building through the draft and we're in no rush to make the playoffs with our building sold out the first 3 years. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

On the topic of defensive prospects outside of Trouba, our next highest prospects are Postma and Redmond who are both 7th rounders!
In today's NHL you can't fully build your team from the draft, you have to make some timely trades and signings as well. ROR is a pretty rare piece to come on to the trade market (which is why he will bring really good value). A 22 year old center who has already proven he is an elite defensive center and a #2C. This represents a chance to fully solidify the #2C (and possibly #1C role if you feel ROR has a 65 point upside) for a decade. Little for as good as he is, he is a #2C or RW. Burmi has all the talent to be up there, but hasn't put it together. Scheifele is years away from being at ROR's level. It isn't like Winnipeg is getting a #3C for a year or 2, they are getting an elite #2 for at very least 4 years and likely as long as they want him.

IMO swapping out Little for ROR in the lineup alone could put Winnipeg over the hump and into the playoffs this season (maybe as a 7 or 8). Plus you get younger and better defensively. Using a prospect to buy the difference between Little and ROR would be good practice for Winnipeg IMO. The hangup would be how much more does Winnipeg value ROR over Little compared to what the Avs see the difference as. The Avs probably see the difference as somebody like Trouba, Winnipeg sees it more as Yuen.

How are the Jets on goalie prospects?

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02-27-2013, 03:14 PM
  #175
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
The problem in my eyes is that Little really isn't that far off value wise from O'Reilly. He's put up similar point totals from the wing or center position, he just doesn't have the intangibles, and elite defensive play.

The Avs would have to add something fairly big in addition to O'Reilly for that second piece coming back to be better than Lilttle. I don't think a depth defender like Wilson or O'Brien would be enough.

The second piece seems like it would likely be a prospect or something with less value than Little. Unless they get really creative with the deal somehow.
The reason why it's off is because of the age difference between the two players. If RoR was a finished product, I would be inclined to agree with you but he just turned 22 a few weeks ago. No matter which way anyone wants to slice it, there is NO WAY in hell, anyone is going to convince me that RoR can't get better than what we've seen in his 3 full season in the league since coming in at age 18.

Bryan Little is going to be 26 years old this November and, unless I'm missing something is pretty much the guy you're going to get going forward. Don't get me wrong, I like this player, I think he's a good all around guy and I like his versatility:

2007-08 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 48 6 10 16
2007-08 Chicago Wolves AHL 34 9 16 25
2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 79 31 20 51
2009-10 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 79 13 21 34
2010-11 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 76 18 30 48
2011-12 Winnipeg Jets NHL 74 24 22 46
2012-13 Winnipeg Jets NHL 19 3 9 12

This is essentially the guy you're getting.

With RoR, putting up 55 points as a 3rd year forward, 20 year old (turned 21 on February 7th) with his first REAL chance at significant Power Play time, THAT'S the reason why it's not as close as you think between the two, in my opinion anyways and that's also the reason why Bob McKenzie tweets stuff like..."the price is going to be STEEP"...and rightfully so.



Note - Rank is amongst forwards on the team.
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