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Habs to reach Cap Heaven?

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #101
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
So basically it would be this year all over again, when Cole played about 5 good games and the team still won plenty of games despite him being a non-factor a lot of nights.
I admit my take on the trade is highly subjective. Personnaly, I don't think it would leave the Habs in the same shape as they are right now.

1- I think Habs were a better team on the ice with Cole than with Ryder. The only thing Ryder is doing better is scoring on the PP. For the rest of this shortened season, it will barely mean 5-6 more goal than Cole on the PP, and only 1 or 2 of these goal would be diffrence maker. But Ryder won't be a calming presence for our youngsters and will make plenty of mistakes in his own zone. Moreover, the Habs lose their only true power forward that was rushibng the net in 5 vs 5 situations. Max Pac isn't there yet, he doesn't rush the net with the same autorithy. Cole was playing better the last 4-5 games.

2- Because of point #1, I don't think Habs will want to re-sign Ryder next year. So it becomes a poker move to try to sign a UFA that could be not as good as Cole.

but like I said, I don't think it is a bad trade at all. Cap space, PP sniper and a 3rd round pick are all good assets. I just state subjectively that the final outcome is a poker move.

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02-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #102
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If DD wants more than 2.0 he can walk.

For the 4th line, I want Lapierre and Bordeleau.

For the 1st line, aim for Perry, Semin, or Vanek. If we fail, move on, keep the space, and try again in 2014.
Letting DD walk would be poor asset management and I don't see Bergevin letting that happen. We already have Moen and Prust who are best suited to the LW on the fourth line and who are under contract... we don't need another there. White fits our needs better than Lapierre and comes at a lower cost.

The OP had a long list of players but many of them had small contracts and even if they walk, someone will have to take their roster spot, probably at equivalent pay. If Ryder isn't re-signed someone will have to take his spot and that someone would probably command an equivalent salary... so the illusion is that the cap space is much larger than it really is.

If the team really wanted to create cap space they would buy out Kaberle at year end and see if Gionta could be moved. At the same time, I could see a 3 year contract for Desharnais at about $8 million and two years for Ryder at about $5.5 million.

You could probably replace Armstrong with Dumont or Blunden, keep Bouillon as a #6 or #7 defenseman and replace Weber with Tinordi as your other #6 or #7 defenseman. All of that would be a wash as far as salary goes.

When you plug those numbers into the cap space, it still looks pretty good while allowing some of our younger players to develop as they should.

We would end up with a significant amount of cap space to sign a right winger who could play on the top two lines while keeping Ryder and Gallagher as our other scoring right wingers.

I definitely agree that if we fail to sign a top talent that we keep the cap space and try later to sign a free agent or trade for a top talent.

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02-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Here is the paragraph in the CBA agreement... there is no limit to one player per year, just 2 compliance buyouts total over the next two years. Kaberle wouldn't be on the cap.

During the Ordinary Course “Buy-Out” periods following the 2012/13 season and 2013/14 season, in addition to any other Ordinary Course “Buy-Outs” a Club may elect to effectuate pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC, Clubs may elect to terminate and “buy-out” the already existing SPCs of up to two (2) additional Players (in the aggregate over the two (2) years) on a Compliance basis (a “Compliance Buy-Out”). Such Compliance Buy-Out(s) would be effectuated on the same terms as are set forth in Paragraph 13 of the SPC, except that the amounts paid under such “buy-out(s)” will not be charged against the Club’s Cap in any of the years in which the payments are made to the Player. Amounts paid under such Compliance Buy-Out(s) will, however, be counted against the Players’ Share during any League Year in which the “buy-out” payments are made. A Player that has been bought out under these Compliance Buy-Out provisions shall be prohibited from re-joining the Club that bought him out (via re-signing, Assignment, Waiver claim or otherwise) for the duration of the 2013/14 League Year (if the Player was bought out in 2013) and the 2014/15 League Year (if the Player was bought out in 2014).
Thanks BG. If that's the case, that's awesome. I had always thought we had to hang onto him all of next year too. That gives us huge relief.

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02-27-2013, 01:44 PM
  #104
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Anything to prevent him from landing in Toronto. We'll pay him extra on the side.
We got Chez Parée here too.

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02-27-2013, 01:51 PM
  #105
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With Getzlaf, we could solve our big center problem for many years. Having Getzlaf, Galchenyuk, Eller has our top 3 centers, we would have one of the biggest center line in hockey. But getting Getzlaf is a very long shot.
We should have drafted him in the first place

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02-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Letting DD walk would be poor asset management and I don't see Bergevin letting that happen. We already have Moen and Prust who are best suited to the LW on the fourth line and who are under contract... we don't need another there. White fits our needs better than Lapierre and comes at a lower cost.

The OP had a long list of players but many of them had small contracts and even if they walk, someone will have to take their roster spot, probably at equivalent pay. If Ryder isn't re-signed someone will have to take his spot and that someone would probably command an equivalent salary... so the illusion is that the cap space is much larger than it really is.

If the team really wanted to create cap space they would buy out Kaberle at year end and see if Gionta could be moved. At the same time, I could see a 3 year contract for Desharnais at about $8 million and two years for Ryder at about $5.5 million.

You could probably replace Armstrong with Dumont or Blunden, keep Bouillon as a #6 or #7 defenseman and replace Weber with Tinordi as your other #6 or #7 defenseman. All of that would be a wash as far as salary goes.

When you plug those numbers into the cap space, it still looks pretty good while allowing some of our younger players to develop as they should.

We would end up with a significant amount of cap space to sign a right winger who could play on the top two lines while keeping Ryder and Gallagher as our other scoring right wingers.

I definitely agree that if we fail to sign a top talent that we keep the cap space and try later to sign a free agent or trade for a top talent.
To be fair, I did set aside 5M$ for these support personnel.

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02-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #107
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Boston has a ton of cash too, so I guess we had no choice. Don't want them to get Perry.

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02-27-2013, 02:50 PM
  #108
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I'd be shocked if Perry came to MTL, I just don't see MB making a big pitch for him.

I'm truly convinced he's told Molson it's going to be a mini rebuild and he'll be using his draft picks and filling the roster with more prospects next season. I think after next year will be the time to compete in the playoffs.

But that being said, Perry would be a perfect fit on this club. Imagine him with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk next season, wowzahs!

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02-27-2013, 02:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I'd be shocked if Perry came to MTL, I just don't see MB making a big pitch for him.

I'm truly convinced he's told Molson it's going to be a mini rebuild and he'll be using his draft picks and filling the roster with more prospects next season. I think after next year will be the time to compete in the playoffs.

But that being said, Perry would be a perfect fit on this club. Imagine him with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk next season, wowzahs!
How would you do that? Hamilton's season proves no one is ready to contribute in the NHL next season.

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02-27-2013, 02:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Letting DD walk would be poor asset management and I don't see Bergevin letting that happen. We already have Moen and Prust who are best suited to the LW on the fourth line and who are under contract... we don't need another there. White fits our needs better than Lapierre and comes at a lower cost.

The OP had a long list of players but many of them had small contracts and even if they walk, someone will have to take their roster spot, probably at equivalent pay. If Ryder isn't re-signed someone will have to take his spot and that someone would probably command an equivalent salary... so the illusion is that the cap space is much larger than it really is.

If the team really wanted to create cap space they would buy out Kaberle at year end and see if Gionta could be moved. At the same time, I could see a 3 year contract for Desharnais at about $8 million and two years for Ryder at about $5.5 million.

You could probably replace Armstrong with Dumont or Blunden, keep Bouillon as a #6 or #7 defenseman and replace Weber with Tinordi as your other #6 or #7 defenseman. All of that would be a wash as far as salary goes.

When you plug those numbers into the cap space, it still looks pretty good while allowing some of our younger players to develop as they should.

We would end up with a significant amount of cap space to sign a right winger who could play on the top two lines while keeping Ryder and Gallagher as our other scoring right wingers.

I definitely agree that if we fail to sign a top talent that we keep the cap space and try later to sign a free agent or trade for a top talent.
MB would never really "let him walk" for free, he would be traded as an RFA.

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02-27-2013, 02:56 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
How would you do that? Hamilton's season proves no one is ready to contribute in the NHL next season.
Except maybe Tinordi who could fill the 6th defenseman spot as soon as next year.

Would it be better for him to stay one more year in the AHL? I honestly don't know.

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02-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I'd be shocked if Perry came to MTL, I just don't see MB making a big pitch for him.

I'm truly convinced he's told Molson it's going to be a mini rebuild and he'll be using his draft picks and filling the roster with more prospects next season. I think after next year will be the time to compete in the playoffs.

But that being said, Perry would be a perfect fit on this club. Imagine him with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk next season, wowzahs!
My only worry is this: if Montreal made a big free agency splash would in the future they be cash strapped to give raises to Subban, Galchenyuk and Gallagher?

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02-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
How would you do that? Hamilton's season proves no one is ready to contribute in the NHL next season.
Leblanc and Bournival could easily step into the NHL next season IMO. Holland has looked good as well. Also curious as to what Collberg's contract status is for next year and when he'll be making the move over to NA.

While it's defense and doesn't effect the offense, you have to believe Tinordi will be on the big club next year.

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02-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
My only worry is this: if Montreal made a big free agency splash would in the future they be cash strapped to give raises to Subban, Galchenyuk and Gallagher?
Not really. If habs can manage cap at 64 mil they should be fine when it increases.

As well, you must consider that Gionta(5), Kaberle(4.25), Markov(5.75) will be UFA in 2 years and likely command less IF retained in a bigger cap then no, we shoudn't worry.

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02-27-2013, 03:15 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Leblanc and Bournival could easily step into the NHL next season IMO. Holland has looked good as well. Also curious as to what Collberg's contract status is for next year and when he'll be making the move over to NA.

While it's defense and doesn't effect the offense, you have to believe Tinordi will be on the big club next year.
You also have Beaulieu playing 30 minutes a game down in the AHL which is ridiculous. I don't see Diaz on this team very long when Beaulieu is indeed ready.

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02-27-2013, 03:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Leblanc and Bournival could easily step into the NHL next season IMO. Holland has looked good as well. Also curious as to what Collberg's contract status is for next year and when he'll be making the move over to NA.

While it's defense and doesn't effect the offense, you have to believe Tinordi will be on the big club next year.
I agree with Tinordi.

Collberg just signed for one more year in Sweden, which is a good thing.

Leblanc and Bournival will have a hard time scoring 12 goals in the AHL. They're so far from the NHL it's scary. Holland needs both seasoning and to beef up.

Habs absolutly need to sign a UFA next year, and a good one. Otherwise the team will regress.

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02-27-2013, 03:21 PM
  #117
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What is the max % a player can have of the cap? Is it 15%? I don't remember

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02-27-2013, 03:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
My only worry is this: if Montreal made a big free agency splash would in the future they be cash strapped to give raises to Subban, Galchenyuk and Gallagher?
I doubt it... the cap is guaranteed to go up, and there are expiring contracts coming up. I don't think it would affect guys like Gallys or Subban. (Or shouldn't, at any rate). But it could affect retaining Markov, say, or the kinds of raises that Eller or Diaz might get if they play well, but still aren't perceived as absolute core players at the end of next season. Etc. Obviously big free agency contracts have those kinds of impacts. But to me that's just part of what you trade off in getting elite players onto the team.

Diaz is actually going to be a relatively tricky case. The way he's playing this year, and his age, he'd be scheduled to be UFA after next season, and he could draw a relatively uncomfortable raise. It would be worth looking into extending him this summer at any value we might find that seems to offer some potential savings, perhaps. $3Mish?

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02-27-2013, 03:29 PM
  #119
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What is the max % a player can have of the cap? Is it 15%? I don't remember
I believe it's 20%. Although not mentioned explicitly in the new CBA MoU that I can see.

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02-27-2013, 03:35 PM
  #120
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I doubt it... the cap is guaranteed to go up, and there are expiring contracts coming up. I don't think it would affect guys like Gallys or Subban. (Or shouldn't, at any rate). But it could affect retaining Markov, say, or the kinds of raises that Eller or Diaz might get if they play well, but still aren't perceived as absolute core players at the end of next season. Etc. Obviously big free agency contracts have those kinds of impacts. But to me that's just part of what you trade off in getting elite players onto the team.

Diaz is actually going to be a relatively tricky case. The way he's playing this year, and his age, he'd be scheduled to be UFA after next season, and he could draw a relatively uncomfortable raise. It would be worth looking into extending him this summer at any value we might find that seems to offer some potential savings, perhaps. $3Mish?
Excellent point about Diaz. The more I see, the more I like. He has the best hockey IQ on D next to Markov. I hope he's paying attention, because in about 15 months when Markov possibly leaves, Diaz's role may increase.

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02-27-2013, 03:39 PM
  #121
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I believe it's 20%. Although not mentioned explicitly in the new CBA MoU that I can see.
Yuck, 20% is way too much anyways.

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02-27-2013, 04:10 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
My only worry is this: if Montreal made a big free agency splash would in the future they be cash strapped to give raises to Subban, Galchenyuk and Gallagher?
Not really...u have to consider that by the time subban's contract is up...so to will gionta's 5 million and markovs 5.75

when gally and gally are ready for raises..plekanec will be up...so i dont really see it as an issue.

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02-27-2013, 05:58 PM
  #123
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FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.750m) / Corey Perry ($8.000m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Ryan White ($0.800m)
Gabriel Dumont ($0.750m) / Louis Leblanc ($1.170m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Douglas Murray ($3.000m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) /

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Dustin Tokarski ($0.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,720,833; BONUSES: $2,997,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,576,667

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02-27-2013, 10:17 PM
  #124
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Pacioretty (4.5) – Galchenyuk (3.2) – Perry (8)
Bourque (3.3) - Plekanec (5) – Gionta (5)
Prust (2.5) – Eller (1.3) – Gallagher – (0.9)
Moen (1.9) – White (1) – UFA (1)
UFA (0.5)

Markov (5.75) – Emelin (2)
Subban (2.8) – Gorges (3.9)
Diaz (1.2) – Tinordi (1.1)
UFA (1)

Price (6.5)
Budaj (1.1)

64.25

Trade: Desharnais, Weber
Buyout: Kaberle

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02-27-2013, 10:24 PM
  #125
Aeneas
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Keep in mind, 2014-2105 we have to resign

Subban - RFA
Eller - RFA

Emelin - UFA
Markov - UFA
Diaz - UFA

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