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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #76
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
he should be in line for some critisism. Is he the sole reason for the teams continued poor play? Obviously not. But he should be sharing the blame.
i've criticized him plenty lately.

regardless, i stand by my views:

taking into account ALL Flyers game this season , Bryz has been our best player [my criticism of him lately included]

goaltending has not been this year / is not "the problem" .. the Team D & general lack of hustle / urgency in front of the goaltenders is.

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02-27-2013, 12:55 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
quote ANYTHING Giroux [you know, the captain] said about goaltending.
Has Giroux ever called out a specific teammate? Because if he says goaltending you know who he's talking about.

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02-27-2013, 12:58 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Has Giroux ever called out a specific teammate? Because if he says goaltending you know who he's talking about.
I think Timonen has, but it was last season.

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02-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Bryz has a cap hit of 5.66. The thinking behind paying a goalie that much is so you don't have to assemble an All-Star team infront of him to be successful. We saw Bryz can play well behind this team during the first two weeks of the season, he needs to do that more consistently.
My point was that it certainly does matter, who is playing in front of a goalie. Saying that we'll never win with Bryz no matter who is in front is silly. We've gon a lot farther with a lot worse between the pipes.

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02-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
My point was that it certainly does matter, who is playing in front of a goalie. Saying that we'll never win with Bryz no matter who is in front is silly. We've gon a lot farther with a lot worse between the pipes.
Not saying Homer should stick a bunch of plugs infront of Bryz, and he hasn't, our defenseman are good enough.

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02-27-2013, 01:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i'd say impeccable / average.
a save percentage near .900 and GAA of 2.70 is sub average.

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02-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  #82
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Everyone talks about how good he was after the Winter Classic last year, but in reality he had a great March and a very average two months prior. In January, he had a .912 save percentage. He followed that up with a .909 save percentage in February. March was his month, putting up a .947. Regular season, without March, his save percentage was .898, and .887 in the playoffs. Here we are this season, a few games out from the halfway point, and Bryz is sporting a nice .900 even, good for 23rd out of the 27 goalies who have started 10 games.

He is not worth a 5.6 cap hit. Any goalie can give you a save percentage around .900, then you hope they get hot at the right times. It would be the same as having Bryzgalov in net, and you'd have an extra 3-4 mil to spend elsewhere. Hell, maybe they would even be able to stop one breakaway.

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02-27-2013, 01:57 PM
  #83
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Can we pinpoint his issues? Is it his lateral movement?

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02-27-2013, 02:01 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post

He is not worth a 5.6 cap hit. Any goalie can give you a save percentage around .900, then you hope they get hot at the right times. It would be the same as having Bryzgalov in net, and you'd have an extra 3-4 mil to spend elsewhere. Hell, maybe they would even be able to stop one breakaway.
Exactly.

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02-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
My point was that it certainly does matter, who is playing in front of a goalie. Saying that we'll never win with Bryz no matter who is in front is silly. We've gon a lot farther with a lot worse between the pipes.
How so? The numbers you posted namely contradict what your point seems to be.

Anyway, I wanted to throw out a bone aka NHL.com's quote of the day from Cory Schneider, as well:
Quote:
I'm kind of tired of playing like an average goalie, it's getting ridiculous now, three or four games in a row giving up three goals or more. You know I don't care if they were nice goals or guys wide open it doesn't matter, you got to make some big saves to give your team a chance to at least get a point.
— Vancouver goalie Cory Schneider after the Canucks' 4-2 loss to the Coyotes on Tuesday

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02-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Has Giroux ever called out a specific teammate? Because if he says goaltending you know who he's talking about.
who knows, who cares, not even my point. my point was that there is not one thing that Bryz can address:

Quote:
“We’re not competing,” said Giroux, who has one goal over his last 14 games and three in 16 games this season. “We’re not winning battles. We’re just going through the motions.

“We’re a young team that can skate and has strong sticks. We should be winning more battles than this. It’s just frustrating to see. I know it has to be better. On a team there are 20 guys, and we need everybody to show up.”
http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...real-Canadiens

i challenge anyone to conclude he was talking about Bryz. even "On a team there are 20 guys, we need everybody to show up" could mean "we need all 20, not just the goalie, or a few guys", and not "we had zero people show up" [which would be the only thing that could possibly include Bryz.]

again, nothing points to Bryz, but everything he said does apply to the rest of the team. the issue is NOT goaltending this year. just stop.

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02-27-2013, 02:30 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
again, nothing points to Bryz, but everything he said does apply to the rest of the team. the issue is NOT goaltending this year. just stop.
Why stop? Goaltending CLEARLY is still an issue. There is basically no backup goalie, which has put too much pressure on Bryz...pressure it seems he can't handle. He was worth his cap hit for two weeks, and now he hasn't been worth his cap hit for about two weeks. With little prospect of rest, there isn't a lot of reason to believe he can turn it around.

Much of this is on the GM more than it is Bryz...but make no mistake, Bryzgalov still shares in some of the blame.

Your fevered attempts to assure us "ALL IS WELL" a la Kevin Bacon in Animal House don't change these things.

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02-27-2013, 02:31 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
who knows, who cares, not even my point.
States lack of singling out by Giroux as evidence he is correct. Is given an argument Giroux does not single players out. Without addressing it, disregards the counter-argument as irrelevant and holds onto prior belief with same vigour.

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02-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
States lack of singling out by Giroux as evidence he is correct. Is given an argument Giroux does not single players out. Without addressing it, disregards the counter-argument as irrelevant and holds onto prior belief with same vigour.
Yeah, after providing quotes himself to prove Giroux speaks broadly and doesn't single anyone out.

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02-27-2013, 02:40 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, after providing quotes himself to prove Giroux speaks broadly and doesn't single anyone out.
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02-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #91
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Let it be known I am not a 'Bryz hater' or a 'Bryz supporter'. Just looking at what's best for the hockey club.

8th in shots against per game (meaning least) and tied for 5th in goals against per game (meaning most). The team has only won twice when scoring 2 goals or less, which means it's a team that relies on it's offense to win games. Flyers are also 8th in goals for per game (meaning most). Bryz was the 'MVP' of the first quarter, however does a team really have an MVP when it is below .500?

SV% of .900 is just not good enough. Bryz has faced 30+ shots only 6 times, compared to Ryan Miller who has faced 30+ shots 14 times and both have allowed a league worst 50 goals and Ryan Miller is on a much, much worse team and is having a 'bad season'. Miller has a Vezina and a cap-hit of $6.250mil until 2014-15. For the contract that Bryz has, he has not lived up to it and it seems likely that he won't, or at least this team can't wait for him to shape up while guys like Giroux and Schenn and Couturier get older and will soon need new contracts, essentially changing the financial look of the team yet again.

I know these are all stats, but I've watched every Flyers game this year. He makes some big saves, but looks really shaky at times and is a word you never want to hear about your goalie - inconsistant.

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02-27-2013, 03:10 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
How so? The numbers you posted namely contradict what your point seems to be.

Anyway, I wanted to throw out a bone aka NHL.com's quote of the day from Cory Schneider, as well:
i don't understand how the numbers i posted counter my own point. Leighton led our 3 goalie triple threat of failure with a .918 that year and we went to the Cup finals. Unless you're pitching that MFL is a better goalie than Bryz, those numbers support my assertion that the team went that far in spite of who was in net, not because of it. The team playing in front of the goalie matters as much as the goalie.

So far this season the recurring theme is when the skaters skate Bryz sucks and when Bryz is playing well, the skaters suck. If Lavvy and the captains can get this team sync'd up, we can make up the ground we've lost. If not, without even making any moves we'll be a better team next year due to young guns furthering their development.

We could go the other way with it and buy him out in the offseason and where does that leave us? What goalie can we go out and get that will be an improvement at his cap hit or less? There isn't one. There is no goalie that can meet expectations here. When we lose, it's always the goaltenders fault. Goaltending has been an issue since a year or 2 before Hextall last laced em up for us. Every year in the media "Philly Goaltending blah blah blah..." It's a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. I don't see the point in making a move for the sake of making one.

I don't like his cap hit, but that's what goalies cost. We could have had Vokoun for a cool mil for a year, sure, with his .891. Personally i wish we would have kept Biron. It is what it is.

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02-27-2013, 03:13 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
I know these are all stats, but I've watched every Flyers game this year. He makes some big saves, but looks really shaky at times and is a word you never want to hear about your goalie - inconsistant.
if you are consistently inconsistent, doesn't that make you consistent?

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02-27-2013, 03:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
i don't understand how the numbers i posted counter my own point. Leighton led our 3 goalie triple threat of failure with a .918 that year and we went to the Cup finals. Unless you're pitching that MFL is a better goalie than Bryz, those numbers support my assertion that the team went that far in spite of who was in net, not because of it. The team playing in front of the goalie matters as much as the goalie.
I don't understand. You say we've gotten further with worse goaltending than Bryz's .900, and then you go and provide actual proof of two goalies on the team that went further posting better numbers. This isn't a question of whether Bryz is in general a better goalie than Leighton, it's a question of how far goaltending exhibited this year can take us. And, yes, I am pitching that it is entirely possible for Leighton to provide better goaltending than Bryz when stretches shorter than a couple of years are considered. In fact, he has done so already.

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02-27-2013, 03:40 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
I don't understand. You say we've gotten further with worse goaltending than Bryz's .900, and then you go and provide actual proof of two goalies on the team that went further posting better numbers. This isn't a question of whether Bryz is in general a better goalie than Leighton, it's a question of how far goaltending exhibited this year can take us. And, yes, I am pitching that it is entirely possible for Leighton to provide better goaltending than Bryz when stretches shorter than a couple of years are considered. In fact, he has done so already.
MFL is a career AHL goalie with an angel on his shoulder. Nothing more than that.

When we give away pucks like they're free, give up odd man rushes, leave guys wide open in front of the net and in the high slot, and basically get out-hustled in puck battles, i have a hard time demonizing the goalie. It's debatable as to whether any goalie on earth would enjoy success with how this team has played.

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02-27-2013, 03:42 PM
  #96
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if you are consistently inconsistent, doesn't that make you consistent?
True.

I honestly think we need to go the 'Ben Bishop' route and throw some assets at a young goalie to back-up Bryzgalov - better than throwing assets at a rental defender to try and push into 8th. Our current back-ups are likely league worst and in acquiring a young back-up there's the potential for him to steal the starting role much like Corey Schneider did in Vancouver or at least give us a 'stop-gap' if Bryzgalov does indeed need to be bought out. The Senators went after Bishop even when they had Anderson and Lehner, and Bishop was had for a 2nd rounder in a draft two years away... Might as well grab some Bryzgalov insurance that isn't MFL.

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02-27-2013, 03:42 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
States lack of singling out by Giroux as evidence he is correct.
what part of this indicates that goaltending is the issue?

please tell me.

Quote:
“We’re not competing,” said Giroux, who has one goal over his last 14 games and three in 16 games this season. “We’re not winning battles. We’re just going through the motions.

“We’re a young team that can skate and has strong sticks. We should be winning more battles than this. It’s just frustrating to see. I know it has to be better. On a team there are 20 guys, and we need everybody to show up.”
keep in mind, this does not include the last 5 games, only through game 16.

G was NOT talking about Bryz.

winning battles
young team
can skate and has strong sticks
just going through the motions

can not be used to describe Bryz this year at all ... let alone through game 16.

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02-27-2013, 03:44 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
i don't understand how the numbers i posted counter my own point. Leighton led our 3 goalie triple threat of failure with a .918 that year and we went to the Cup finals. Unless you're pitching that MFL is a better goalie than Bryz, those numbers support my assertion that the team went that far in spite of who was in net, not because of it. The team playing in front of the goalie matters as much as the goalie.
you are 100% correct. more often than not this year, Bryz has showed up & the team has not

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02-27-2013, 03:47 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
I don't understand. You say we've gotten further with worse goaltending than Bryz's .900, and then you go and provide actual proof of two goalies on the team that went further posting better numbers. This isn't a question of whether Bryz is in general a better goalie than Leighton, it's a question of how far goaltending exhibited this year can take us. And, yes, I am pitching that it is entirely possible for Leighton to provide better goaltending than Bryz when stretches shorter than a couple of years are considered. In fact, he has done so already.
and as far as the numbers go, Boosh had an .899 and Emery had .905. The differences between that and Bryz's .900 are pretty much negligible, and they played the majority of the season. MFL played 27 games that year. Had he played more, i'd wager his percentage would be a lot lower than .918. I guess we'll rack that up to conjecture. Well that and the team in front of him, which was my whole point but whatev.

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02-27-2013, 03:52 PM
  #100
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Goalies depend on the team in front of them, yes.

However, goalies with a 5.6 million dollar cap hit should not be utterly dependent on the team in front of them for success. If Bryz at least looked good out there (like he did early) that would be one thing. But, he has not looked good.

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