HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Chris Kreider

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2013, 04:44 PM
  #176
-31-
portnor, pls
 
-31-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,760
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
If every talent was sent down because of some inconsistency in their rookie season, we can get rid of the Calder Trophy as well.

Rookies should be allowed to play poor and make mistakes. It's what makes them better. Tyler Seguin wasn't a superstar in his rookie season. He had the same problem as Kreider, but he got a chance to redeem himself and now look where he's at.
Seguin was a healthy scratch 6 times and played under 10 minutes 14 times. If he could have been sent to the AHL, he probably would have.

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
-31- is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 04:45 PM
  #177
Dorado*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brooklyn ,USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
Once again I want CK to develop into an NHL player as much as anyone . I even don't blame Torts fully for his failure so far . Kid is overwhelmed , the team is not playing consistent and is banged up and the scrutiny if NY and learning the pro game has caused some paralysis by analysis in his game .
But in all fairness he looks on most shifts like a guy who can't even take a pass or make a play and that is not good for the team .
In th rare instances where he has had a big if time and space he showed a hard shot . Othe times little to no ability to move the puck at all

Dorado* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 04:46 PM
  #178
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,667
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Seguin was a healthy scratch 6 times and played under 10 minutes 14 times. If he could have been sent to the AHL, he probably would have.
That's the way the Bruins develop their players.. play them but give tem limited ice time and put their best D pairings whenever their rookies are on the ice.

Thornton had like 7 points in 60 games in his first season, Seguin and Kessel had less then 30.

Pi is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 04:49 PM
  #179
Dorado*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brooklyn ,USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
Great points . All those guys have about 2x the talent of CK . CK has a pro body / stride/ strength / shot ..... So far it ends there . All those Bos players you mention can also pass and arickhandle

Dorado* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:26 PM
  #180
dethomas07
Registered User
 
dethomas07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
Kids got to want it, and have a desire to succeed to be great.. Torts i believe does a lot of one on ones behind close doors with these young guys to keep them on a level playing field and coach them up.. But its all about confidence and determination.. He has all the tools, great coaching staff, surrounded by great players, but it also rest upon the player to want it and take his game to the next level..

dethomas07 is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:27 PM
  #181
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Great points . All those guys have about 2x the talent of CK . CK has a pro body / stride/ strength / shot ..... So far it ends there . All those Bos players you mention can also pass and arickhandle
Thats looking too deeply into it. Kreider is playing like a little girl out there. How is that the coach's fault?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:30 PM
  #182
Dorado*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brooklyn ,USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats looking too deeply into it. Kreider is playing like a little girl out there. How is that the coach's fault?
I don't think it is and I hate Torts . I actually think Slats is forcing him in him and Torts rather have him in the minors .
CK is over matched in every way.

Dorado* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:31 PM
  #183
Tikkanese
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
Let's not forget that Callahan was sent back to the AHL early in his career to develop a more complete game and gain the confidence to compete in the NHL. That worked out. The NHL game is different and if a player doesn't have the confidence/desire right away, they need to have that fuse lit to stick.

I thought Krieder played a solid playoffs last year, but this season he has not been impactful so far, and I don't just mean on the stat sheet. He's been invisible on most shifts (aside from running into Craig Anderson - that certainly made an impact).

Tikkanese is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:45 PM
  #184
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanese View Post
Let's not forget that Callahan was sent back to the AHL early in his career to develop a more complete game and gain the confidence to compete in the NHL. That worked out. The NHL game is different and if a player doesn't have the confidence/desire right away, they need to have that fuse lit to stick.

I thought Krieder played a solid playoffs last year, but this season he has not been impactful so far, and I don't just mean on the stat sheet. He's been invisible on most shifts (aside from running into Craig Anderson - that certainly made an impact).
Not being impactful is something I can deal with. Kreider has been a liability.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:51 PM
  #185
nevesis
#30
 
nevesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 6,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Once again I want CK to develop into an NHL player as much as anyone . I even don't blame Torts fully for his failure so far . Kid is overwhelmed , the team is not playing consistent and is banged up and the scrutiny if NY and learning the pro game has caused some paralysis by analysis in his game .
But in all fairness he looks on most shifts like a guy who can't even take a pass or make a play and that is not good for the team .
In th rare instances where he has had a big if time and space he showed a hard shot . Othe times little to no ability to move the puck at all
Great post.

I think the paralysis by analysis sums it up quite nicely. It really shows in his game so far this season. He is also extra timid because he knows he can get lit up if he keeps his head down (Orpik) so, he hasn't been going as hard as he should be.

I never met the dude or know much of his personality, but from what i've seen it seems more on the quiet side. Coaching will play a big part in his development. Tortorella is tough love, and in order for Kreider to become tougher, and a better player overall, needs to learn with tough love.

He has all the physical tools, and good talent. Just needs to put it all together. He's still so young. No better place to learn but here.

nevesis is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:56 PM
  #186
Ryan McDonut
McD for Captain
 
Ryan McDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not being impactful is something I can deal with. Kreider has been a liability.
he has not been a liability. he hasn't done well but he hasn't done anything terrible.

Ryan McDonut is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:58 PM
  #187
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan McDonut View Post
he has not been a liability. he hasn't done well but he hasn't done anything terrible.
You're right. He hasnt put one in his own net on purpose yet. Good on him.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 09:36 PM
  #188
Giglio NYR15
Section 417
 
Giglio NYR15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
How is he supposed to grow or do anything positive playing with bottom tiered talent on the 4th line with 6 minutes a game. Kreider with Miller and Callahan worked, and I guarantee it would work again if torts had the balls to do it once Nash came back. You have to either send him down getting big minutes and better like how callahan was when he was younger, or reunite that line because torts is just ruining him as is. The kid has no ice time, hence no place to go thru growing pains, and it doesnt help when youre scared to be thrown in the doghouse every 2 seconds, that mentality doesnt work with everybody. Look at Kadri for example in toronto, definitely experienced plenty of growing pains over last 3 years, and is now coming into own. Im not losing faith in him, im just completely pissed at how hes being handled currently by torts.

Giglio NYR15 is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 02:33 AM
  #189
Sticky Fingers
Registered User
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You're right. He hasnt put one in his own net on purpose yet. Good on him.
CK is the new "Boyle sucks! -No he doesn't" thread.

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 05:56 AM
  #190
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstk View Post
I agree, Ferriero did impress me a little. His speed was good and he played good 4th line hockey.



Then you probably understand that different players have different styles of play. How good you'd think Gaborik would do in 4th line? Physically, after they enter the NHL everything is just tweaking their talent and capabilities to a certain direction. Mentally, whole different story. Physically, nothing wrong with the kid. Now, the question is: How can a kid underperform in a way he is underperformed so far, when he is regarded as one of the hardest working guys in the past? The talent can't just disappear suddenly, can it?
Talent does not disappear, but if all players played the same every year it would be an easy game to figure out. Was Torts great with Kreider last year and now does not understand him?

In sports, just like in life, you have to earn it. This year, Kreider simply hasn't earned it.

chosen is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 06:29 AM
  #191
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
If every talent was sent down because of some inconsistency in their rookie season, we can get rid of the Calder Trophy as well.

Rookies should be allowed to play poor and make mistakes. It's what makes them better. Tyler Seguin wasn't a superstar in his rookie season. He had the same problem as Kreider, but he got a chance to redeem himself and now look where he's at.
The Kreider of this year reminds you of Seguin in his rookie year? Really?

When someone posts here with Kreider in their name it is clear that objective thinking is not happening. You folks are rooting so hard that sometimes you don't seem to grasp that those of us saying he isn't playing very well don't have an axe to grind with him. We all hope he turns out great. We just don't see it right now.

chosen is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 08:14 AM
  #192
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The Kreider of this year reminds you of Seguin in his rookie year? Really?

When someone posts here with Kreider in their name it is clear that objective thinking is not happening. You folks are rooting so hard that sometimes you don't seem to grasp that those of us saying he isn't playing very well don't have an axe to grind with him. We all hope he turns out great. We just don't see it right now.
Well said. I've been labeled a Kreider hater by simply warning it wont be a smooth ride to 30 goals/30 assists. Now that hes up with the team, Im a Kreider hater again with an "agenda" by saying hes playing poorly - or as its also known, the truth.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 08:35 AM
  #193
Dorado*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brooklyn ,USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
This ^. Feel same way very excited about CK . But his game is predicated on him having the puck in a shooting position or off the rush and so far it's not happening . Away from the puck or pursuing the puck he has been sub par . Kid shoulda been playing in the A all year . Maybe if he was like CT and Haley he woulda started having a good second half and started getting it . Now it's looking like he's going down and has to start all over again

Dorado* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 08:52 AM
  #194
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This ^. Feel same way very excited about CK . But his game is predicated on him having the puck in a shooting position or off the rush and so far it's not happening . Away from the puck or pursuing the puck he has been sub par . Kid shoulda been playing in the A all year . Maybe if he was like CT and Haley he woulda started having a good second half and started getting it . Now it's looking like he's going down and has to start all over again
Theres are 5 players in the league that have less shots on goal than Chris Kreider with a minimum of 10 games played. I can list them, but you can imagine how horrendous they all are.

John Scott is one of them.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 10:29 AM
  #195
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
And, then break down which zone Kreider has spent the bulk of his shifts.

Playing on the 3rd-4th lines with guys like Boyle, Pyatt, Asham, Powe, Halpern, Mashinter majority of the time, and they've spent a lot of time in the neutral zone struggling to gain the zone. And the defensive zone, being pinned.

So, yes, shots on goal will decrease.

I know it's hard for some ^^^^ to grasp deeper concepts and break downs of the game. Things aren't as cut and dry.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/glossary.php

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

There are only 6 forwards on the roster who average being on the ice for more goals for per 20 minutes.

Kreider is on the ice for the LEAST amount of opponent goals for per 20 minutes

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

Most neutral zone faceoffs

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Not on the ice for many offensive zone faceoffs

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Quality of his linemates offense is bad.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Faces stiff quality of opponent defense

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...C&sortdir=DESC

Kreider hasn't been in the best position to succeed offensively. Not his linemates, not where he plays the bulk of his shifts (neutral and defensive zone).

He should be playing in a position where he can succeed. It would be easier to put him in one if Gaborik and Richards were doing their jobs offensively.

Kyle Palmieri is riding shot gun and being carried by Getzlaf and Perry.

Getzlaf and Perry are doing their job offensively. The team's leaders are doing their jobs. The coaching staff and the organization can allot a young player like Palmieri the opportunity to develop along side those top performers.

If Kreider were riding shotgun with Nash, he would be on the ice for more offensive zone faceoffs, he would be on the attack for more of his shifts, he would be able to go to the net and bang in some rebounds and deflections.

Player development.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 10:37 AM
  #196
Amazing Kreiderman
Night-shift fan!
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,432
vCash: 500
Judging someone based on his username is ridiculous. The reason I have my username, is because it sounds cooIl, not because I am Kreider's biggest fan. I would love to see him make it as a Ranger, sure, but I won't defend him at all cost. He doesn't play well but I feel the criticism he gets is going too far.

Tortorella doesn't give talents a lot of chances to redeem themselves. If you compare his player management to that of other coaches, it's fair to say he tolerates less of his talents. That, and the way he is letting the team grind for 60 minutes, just don't lead to anything.

Kreider started the season with an injury and is expected to guide a team where the veterans are not performing. I feel people's expectations of Kreider are just unrealistic due to his play-off performance last year

Amazing Kreiderman is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 10:43 AM
  #197
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Judging someone based on his username is ridiculous. The reason I have my username, is because it sounds cooIl, not because I am Kreider's biggest fan. I would love to see him make it as a Ranger, sure, but I won't defend him at all cost. He doesn't play well but I feel the criticism he gets is going too far.

Tortorella doesn't give talents a lot of chances to redeem themselves. If you compare his player management to that of other coaches, it's fair to say he tolerates less of his talents. That, and the way he is letting the team grind for 60 minutes, just don't lead to anything.

Kreider started the season with an injury and is expected to guide a team where the veterans are not performing. I feel people's expectations of Kreider are just unrealistic due to his play-off performance last year
I agree. Who cares what someone's user name is...are we in grade school?

And It's a humorous reference to Spiderman. I like it.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 11:26 AM
  #198
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,792
vCash: 500
Carl Hagelin:
Quote:
Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails.
Chris Kreider:
Quote:
If Kreider were riding shotgun with Nash, he would be on the ice for more offensive zone faceoffs, he would be on the attack for more of his shifts, he would be able to go to the net and bang in some rebounds and deflections.

Player development.
Holy freaking agenda, Batman.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 11:33 AM
  #199
Ail
Occult Knowledge
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Carl Hagelin:


Chris Kreider:


Holy freaking agenda, Batman.



That's wonderful.

__________________
Ail is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 11:35 AM
  #200
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Carl Hagelin:


Chris Kreider:


Holy freaking agenda, Batman.
Really?

Hagelin doesn't need to ride shotgun with Nash or Gaborik. Hagelin is a more persistent player and catalyst that creates on his own because of his tenacity and speed. His ability to win races to pucks and get behind defenders.

Chris Kreider is 6-3, 230 pounds. Hagelin is 5-11, 180 soaking wet.

You can't expect a huge frame like that to consistently be a pest the way Hagelin is able to do.

Hagelin found success with Gaborik and Richards, and Callahan.

Kreider playing with a big puck controlling player like Nash would open a ton of space for Kreider. Kreider relishes going to the net for tip ins and rebounds. And relishes on being open for a shot and streaking down the wing.

Nash relishes controlling the puck and bulling his way to the net.

If the combination works, Kreider could gain confidence and start producing.

Or, you could act like a ****ing child and "holy gargllleeeeezzzzzz" rather then summoning the intellect and grammatical skills to formulate a post that explains your point of view.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.