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Old
02-27-2013, 01:18 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
As far dealing for a froward goes (iggy etc) that is possible and I really don't put a ton of thought into it. Should we could we? Maybe and sure. Will we? Its possible.

If we were to go after a vet presence on our D or for a depth D to me it wouldn't make any sense unless we upgraded what we have.

We have an exceptional top 4 in RS DD VV and AM and could see Greener back before the deadline too. Our bottom 6ers DD JM KE are all capable of playing their spots with competence until MG gets back and then once he does we have what we need imo.

That said teams like Fla have a few great options to add a rental 2nd pairing Dman (Cambell Jovo etc) and if they are their at the deadline then we could pick one up.

I don't see us swinging for the fences on a Dman at all and really unless we are writing off WM don't think that we should.
We won't do anything regarding defense at all until Mitchell and Greene are either back or declared done for the season. So we have time. That said, assuming we don't have WM back but Greene makes it back before the deadline, we have a D of DD, Scuds, Greene, Ellerby, Muzzin, Voynov, DD44, A-Mart, so yeah, you're likely right, we don't need to add a D-man.

Without Greene though, that could change, or if DL wants to add a long term D-man in case DD44 and Scuds can't be resigned to extensions.

A forward makes more sense.

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02-27-2013, 01:21 AM
  #827
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Great minds.


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02-27-2013, 01:34 AM
  #828
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Who could we possibly trade for a forward then? Or are we talking via free agency? What does it seem like?

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02-27-2013, 01:49 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
We won't do anything regarding defense at all until Mitchell and Greene are either back or declared done for the season. So we have time. That said, assuming we don't have WM back but Greene makes it back before the deadline, we have a D of DD, Scuds, Greene, Ellerby, Muzzin, Voynov, DD44, A-Mart, so yeah, you're likely right, we don't need to add a D-man.

Without Greene though, that could change, or if DL wants to add a long term D-man in case DD44 and Scuds can't be resigned to extensions.

A forward makes more sense.
Agree 100%.

Btw, it's 44DD not DD44. There IS a difference you know.

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02-27-2013, 09:33 AM
  #830
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Who could we possibly trade for a forward then? Or are we talking via free agency? What does it seem like?
I'd assume a winger who is more of a goalscorer. I'll continue to harp about it, I can totally see us going after Iginla (if he's made available). Who could we trade? Bernier most likely.

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Agree 100%.

Btw, it's 44DD not DD44. There IS a difference you know.
haha, two totally different games

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:09 PM
  #831
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We have 9 picks in the upcoming draft (I think). I'm looking at all the upcoming RFAs and we definitely have alot of guys to re-sign. One of them is Bernier and I seriously don't think he's coming back. Do you think Columbus gives us a first for him?

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02-27-2013, 01:26 PM
  #832
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RFA's are Clifford ($870,000), Lewis ($725,000), Nolan ($531,667) up front, and Voynov ($816,666), A-Mart ($737,500), Ellerby ($700,000), and Muzzin ($577,500) on defense. Bernier ($1.25 mill) is the goalie. Prospects which have some shot of making the Kings next year that need to be resigned are Kozun ($575,000) and Martin Jones ($525,555)

Clifford is likely to get a 2 year deal, and he won't get much of a raise, based on how DL operates with players going into the second contract. They either get dealt with like Doughty (signed long-term), or they get dealt with like the rest of the 'average' players. Jack Johnson, Patrick O'Sullivan, A-Mart, etc. all got two-year deals after their entry level deal was done, and Cliffy will be the same. So I'm pegging him at 2 years at $950,000 a season.

Lewis will get about what he's at now, maybe a slight raise to $750,000, and Nolan has to go up as the league minimum wage next year is $550,000. So I figure he'll get a 2 year deal at just north of $600,000.

On D, the only one to worry about is Voynov. I think we'd like to sign him for a 4-6 year deal, so you're looking at something I'd guess in the neighbourhood of a 5 year deal at $14 million, give or take, or a $2.9 mill cap hit. I could see that going higher though, maybe closer to $3.4 million on a contract that long.

A-Mart, 2 years at $1.1 million or so. He'll be a great bang for the buck signing. Ellerby and Muzzin will get token raises.

Bernier I'd expect will be gone either this season or at the draft, so he likely won't matter. He could even hold out, demanding a lot of money hoping it'll force a tarde.

Jones and Kozun won't get big raises, likely in the neighbourhood of $600,000 on one year deals.

We'll have to pay more for all of these guys, but outside of Voynov, we won't have any major issues. We will still be very tight to the cap though, given the cap is dropping and Quick's raise kicks in next year.

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:35 PM
  #833
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I think this team definitely needs a top 6 winger more than a defenseman unless both Greene and Mitchell are out for the season. The one thing I would worry about with those guys when they come back is conditioning after missing virtually all of the season. The defensive style we play lends itself to being able to get by with average guys on the back end. Having to roll with Ellerby and Muzzin for a while isn't that bad at all.

The hole at wing is currently on the Richards and Carter line IMO b/c Lewis hasn't suddenly become a bonafide top 6er. Some will say Penner is the guy and will work himself back up there. I am not a Penner fan and I just don't see it.

Personally I would like to add someone to play with Kopitar and Brown, preferably a good finisher due to the way Kopitar can set guys up.

i think Williams is more of a second line winger and would fit nicely with Richards and Carter because he's basically a better version of Trevor Lewis, who's been playing well with them. Fast, hard worker, good forechecker, does all the little things well like Lewis while also having more skill and goal scoring prowess.

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02-27-2013, 04:42 PM
  #834
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I would love a Chris Stewart, but I highly doubt he'd be available to us.

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02-27-2013, 06:08 PM
  #835
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Along those same lines I think the Kings do need another top 6 forward with size. Gagne had size, even though he was not physical, Penner has size (rarely uses it), he will likely depart as a UFA. So that leaves Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Richards and Carter in the top 5 of 6 slots. It would be nice to add another power forward to that mix. Neither King or Clifford has proven that they can consistently play in that top 6 spot yet. The bottom six is set with King, Stoll, Lewis, Fraser, Nolan and Clifford all under contract or just RFA's that will 99% be re-signed or qualified...

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02-27-2013, 06:15 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Along those same lines I think the Kings do need another top 6 forward with size. Gagne had size, even though he was not physical, Penner has size (rarely uses it), he will likely depart as a UFA. So that leaves Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Richards and Carter in the top 5 of 6 slots. It would be nice to add another power forward to that mix. Neither King or Clifford has proven that they can consistently play in that top 6 spot yet. The bottom six is set with King, Stoll, Lewis, Fraser, Nolan and Clifford all under contract or just RFA's that will 99% be re-signed or qualified...
Who's slated to come up from Manchester that fills that role?

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:31 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Along those same lines I think the Kings do need another top 6 forward with size. Gagne had size, even though he was not physical, Penner has size (rarely uses it), he will likely depart as a UFA. So that leaves Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Richards and Carter in the top 5 of 6 slots. It would be nice to add another power forward to that mix. Neither King or Clifford has proven that they can consistently play in that top 6 spot yet. The bottom six is set with King, Stoll, Lewis, Fraser, Nolan and Clifford all under contract or just RFA's that will 99% be re-signed or qualified...
Gagne is 6'1" and about 195. Toffoli is 6'1" and about 200. Toffoli is by no means a power forward, but he's basically the same size as Gagne

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02-27-2013, 06:32 PM
  #838
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I think Richards and Carter need a go-getter. Williams does that work for Brown and Kopi. Clifford and Lewis have done OK at that job but not with any consistency.

I don't think that go-getter necessarily has to have a ton of size. Just a willingness to go take a couple hits to make a play like Williams does.

Carter and Richards really are a 2-man wrecking crew though who are going to trust each other more than anyone else. They just need a complimentary player...not somebody who is going to want the puck on their stick all the time.

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02-27-2013, 06:33 PM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Along those same lines I think the Kings do need another top 6 forward with size. Gagne had size, even though he was not physical, Penner has size (rarely uses it), he will likely depart as a UFA. So that leaves Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Richards and Carter in the top 5 of 6 slots. It would be nice to add another power forward to that mix. Neither King or Clifford has proven that they can consistently play in that top 6 spot yet. The bottom six is set with King, Stoll, Lewis, Fraser, Nolan and Clifford all under contract or just RFA's that will 99% be re-signed or qualified...
Our LW depth is something I'm concerned about. Toffoli and Vey are RW and C respectively and, as much as I like Pearson, he's no sure thing.

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02-27-2013, 06:33 PM
  #840
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Any chance to get Pominville from Buffalo? Seems like a DL type of player and maybe if Buffalo does a full rebuild they'll want something around Bernier. This is probably more of an offseason idea though

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
I think Richards and Carter need a go-getter. Williams does that work for Brown and Kopi. Clifford and Lewis have done OK at that job but not with any consistency.

I don't think that go-getter necessarily has to have a ton of size. Just a willingness to go take a couple hits to make a play like Williams does.
That screams Linden Vey to me

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02-27-2013, 06:55 PM
  #842
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I don't see us adding anything significant at the deadline. Look for an Ellerby type deal for a forward at best. Even then, it would be someone who has a shot at cracking the line up. Anything of value would require a 1st and/or Bernier and I see us hanging on to Bernier for the playoffs.

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:59 PM
  #843
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That screams Linden Vey to me
At the moment that's Trevor Lewis to a t. Longterm Vey, Kozun, Toffoli or Pearson could be a good fit.

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:16 PM
  #844
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Any chance to get Pominville from Buffalo? Seems like a DL type of player and maybe if Buffalo does a full rebuild they'll want something around Bernier. This is probably more of an offseason idea though
If Buffalo goes full re-build wouldn't they be asking for defense help back? they already have a decent mix of forwards and Enroth in the wings in net. They are thin on the backend beyond Myers, Brennan and McNabb though.

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:04 PM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
I think Richards and Carter need a go-getter. Williams does that work for Brown and Kopi. Clifford and Lewis have done OK at that job but not with any consistency.

I don't think that go-getter necessarily has to have a ton of size. Just a willingness to go take a couple hits to make a play like Williams does.

Carter and Richards really are a 2-man wrecking crew though who are going to trust each other more than anyone else. They just need a complimentary player...not somebody who is going to want the puck on their stick all the time.
Not a bad Top 6 for next year ...

BROWN - KOPITAR - TOFFOLI
WILLIAMS - RICHARDS - CARTER

Does what you're talking about while giving Kopitar a FINISHER to dish off to more, while Brown just does his North/South make room for everyone else style of play.

The Bottom 6 might need the most help ? really depends upon what we can consider ready from Manchester ? but if Dean trades away Gagne thinking help is in the wings down on the farm you gotta think he's betting on more than JUST Toffoli coming up by next year ?

CLIFFORD - STOLL - LEWIS
KING - FRASER - NOLAN

Vey, Kozun, Pearson, Andy Andreoff

IF Healthy, and IF Scuderi is retained, our D is still ROCK SOLID looking

Rob Scuderi - Drew Doughty
Willie Mitchell - Slava Voynov
Matt Greene - Alec Martinez
Keaton Ellerby, Jake Muzzin, A. Campbell

In Net -

Jonathan Quick
Martin Jones

In fact looking at that ... and at the CAP GEEK $ #'s ... frankly don't expect much much on the UFA market, or in the way of BIG Trades ... the next Kings sniper will need to be Toffoli or we're screwed, and while the bottom 6 might get a bot of a make over I doubt we see any sexy names come over ... and on D our big move WAS getting Ellerby to replace Scud's or Mitchell down the line and GROW with the other young D men. I think our roster is mostly set for at least the next couple of years unless something unexpected happens ?

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I don't see us adding anything significant at the deadline. Look for an Ellerby type deal for a forward at best. Even then, it would be someone who has a shot at cracking the line up. Anything of value would require a 1st and/or Bernier and I see us hanging on to Bernier for the playoffs.
I'm getting that feeling too ... though I can see Bernier MAYBE moving for another DEEP Playoff push /or moving Before the DRAFT to get Dean a mid/late 1st Rnd Pick ?


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Old
02-27-2013, 08:17 PM
  #846
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Not a bad Top 6 for next year ...

BROWN - KOPITAR - TOFFOLI
WILLIAMS - RICHARDS - CARTER
Only problem is, do we even know if JW can play LW? He's never played LW as a king at least.

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02-27-2013, 08:52 PM
  #847
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As I said in my previous post, I really like the thought of a Williams Richards Carter line because I feel like Williams' style of play/role just fits well with them.

I agree that the plan is likely for Toffoli to become a part of the top 6 next year, the sniper on Kopitar's wing that we've been lacking on an ELC. And from all signs so far, he should eventually be able to handle a bonafide top 6 role, as he lit up the OHL in back to back years and is currently third in the AHL in goals as a 20 year old rookie.

The thing is, is he ready to be called up now and/or will Dean and the Kings do it? Dean doesn't like to rush guys, so I would think his preference would be to keep him in the AHL for the whole year and give him a shot in training camp next year.

So given that and our cap circumstances going into next year, that leaves us in the market for a rental top 6 forward at the deadline or a young guy on an ELC that could be an RFA (like Ellerby).

The obvious big fish out there as a rental is Iginla, but it's supposedly going to take a big offer to get him. Is it good asset management to trade a guy like Bernier in the West to a potential fellow playoff contender for a guy that will probably only be on your team for 2 months? Not really. Does Semin hit the market if Carolina is way out at the deadline? Maybe, and he intrigues me. But you're probably looking at more of a second line type of player from a team that's out of it - a guy similar to what you hoped Gagne would give you.

The other option is going after a guy like Magnus Paajarvi (for example) whose name has been kicked around a bit and who has not lived up to his billing and is expendable in Edmonton. A guy with top 6 potential who is already probably capable of top 6 spot duty but who is definitely at least a young solid third line winger with speed and the ability to add some secondary scoring to the offense. What is the price for him, how much are you willing to give up, how ready is he to really help you win this year, do you want to deal with Edmonton again, etc. are all questions in that scenario.

I think it's probably more likely that Dean looks for a rental rather than an Ellerby-type trade for a guy like MPS because as another poster said our bottom six is pretty much set going forward (although you can always improve), and our top 6 of the future will likely feature Toffoli.

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02-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  #848
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I don't see a need for us to add anyone to our bottom 6 outside of the org for the next 3 or more years unless we end up needing to do so as a result of injuries etc. We are loaded and really deep.

As for our top 6 we are overloaded with very good up and coming talent there too. Vey is a top 6 center (second line but solid) who should start getting call ups as early as next season. TT could make the team outright next season (though I think he will be better off seeing spot duty) and Pearson could be a top 6W though I think he would be an idillic 3rd line two way forward with 2nd line scoring abilities.

We also have Kitsyn who is almost certainly coming over next season, Shore is about to make his move to the pro ranks, Kozun is ready and really could become a very good NHLer (though I have to wonder if it will be with our oversized line up or somewhere else) to name a few.

Could we add a top end sniper to our top 6? Anything is possible but only if we see more than Gagne and eventually Penner leave.

We look good.

I do think that it is becoming increasingly possible that WM may be in trouble and eventually (as early as next season) need to be replaced. If that turns out to be true then we will have our priority get for the offseason.

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02-27-2013, 09:23 PM
  #849
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Quote:
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I do think that it is becoming increasingly possible that WM may be in trouble and eventually (as early as next season) need to be replaced. If that turns out to be true then we will have our priority get for the offseason.
Oh crap ! ... what have you heard ? ... PM me, so as not piss off the Negative Nancy types that will give you a hard time for passing along 2nd hand info without a certified 'source' to back it up


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02-27-2013, 09:31 PM
  #850
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If Buffalo goes full re-build wouldn't they be asking for defense help back? they already have a decent mix of forwards and Enroth in the wings in net. They are thin on the backend beyond Myers, Brennan and McNabb though.
Ehrhoff has been their best defenseman this season and apparently Enroth has been brutal, I believe they would be interested in Bernier, but he's not enough for Pommer, believe Buffalo fans were asking for a 1st+Maata+Kennedy from Pittsburgh as value for Pommer, not sure how that value translates to the Kings.

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