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02-27-2013, 11:16 AM
  #176
StormCast
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
is a pretty limited way to view a #1 Defenseman and would immediately eliminate most of the field. That would limit it to about 5 guys (the Chara's and Weber's of the world). Karlsson is easily a #1 but nobody would say that he is "consistently used in a shutdown capacity". Same goes for many other guys that I'd view as #1s.

Being and effective defenseman has as much to do with generating offense and puck possession as it does being used in a shutdown mode. The Pitkanen debate has been beaten to death so I won't get into that, but I just didn't agree with how you characterize a #1.
You are totally missing the point of reference though. That comment about playing a shutdown role was made in connection with Pitkanen, a minute-eating, puck-possession D. He does not consistently play against top lines despite his high ESTOI. He often is mixed-and-matched in latter stages of games with other D's and hence his high numbers.

In my view, a D doesn't have to be a purely defensive-D (e.g. Bryan Allen last year) to play a shutdown role. To me you play a shutdown role by consistently being sent out there against top lines. That is true of Karlsson though, as I wrote, he gets dinged in my book by not playing a key role on the PK. He actually embodies your point about puck moving and puck possession being part of effective D.

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02-27-2013, 11:32 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
You are totally missing the point of reference though. That comment about playing a shutdown role was made in connection with Pitkanen, a minute-eating, puck-possession D. He does not consistently play against top lines despite his high ESTOI. He often is mixed-and-matched in latter stages of games with other D's and hence his high numbers.

In my view, a D doesn't have to be a purely defensive-D (e.g. Bryan Allen last year) to play a shutdown role. To me you play a shutdown role by consistently being sent out there against top lines. That is true of Karlsson though, as I wrote, he gets dinged in my book by not playing a key role on the PK. He actually embodies your point about puck moving and puck possession being part of effective D.
Ok, I took your "shutdown capacity" comment too literally then which is why I took exception to it. Going out against the other teams top lines and being used in a shutdown capacity are two different things to me.

Shutdown capacity to me means you are a defensive minded player who is used to stop the other teams top line. How Boston uses Chara for instance and how Sutter is used from a forward standpoint. Anyhow, no big deal.

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02-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Ok, I took your "shutdown capacity" comment too literally then which is why I took exception to it. Going out against the other teams top lines and being used in a shutdown capacity are two different things to me.

Shutdown capacity to me means you are a defensive minded player who is used to stop the other teams top line. How Boston uses Chara for instance and how Sutter is used from a forward standpoint. Anyhow, no big deal.
I figured that might the case as I wrapped up that last post. I think both shutdown and checking line have become misnomers. Take the Canes for instance during the Cup year. Brindy and Williams were the core the de facto checking line but they also contributed a lot of offense. To your point a shutdown player or a checking player can often be viewed more one-dimensional but I think the definitions have become more broad-based.

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02-27-2013, 12:41 PM
  #179
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I do have to say, Pitkanen's defensive performance is a lot better than his reputation. He very quietly prevents a lot of shifts from going haywire. He's in about the same category as Kimmo Timonen in my mind.

Whether we want to call it a lower-end #1 or a higher-end #2 is a matter of semantics. I think there's more of a consensus on his ranking than it would appear from the arguments here.

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02-27-2013, 01:42 PM
  #180
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Back to Murphy.

So Murphy HAS to go back to Kitchener, whether or not we burn a year on his ELC, due to the fact that he is an emergency callup. Is that correct?

If so, his last game is tomorrow night against Sidney Crosby.

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02-27-2013, 01:45 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Back to Murphy.

So Murphy HAS to go back to Kitchener, whether or not we burn a year on his ELC, due to the fact that he is an emergency callup. Is that correct?

If so, his last game is tomorrow night against Sidney Crosby.
He has to go back as soon as Pitkanen, Gleason, or McBain are able to play, yes. Or if we trade for this other veteran defenseman. Or at least that's what I understand out of it.

If none of the above are ready to play, we either send Murphy back and call up yet another Checker () to replace him to avoid burning a year, or we burn a year for a game or two of extra play (which makes no sense to do).

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02-27-2013, 01:49 PM
  #182
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Maybe Kreuger gets a 7 minute tryout in this insane carousel if Gleason can't go and they don't get a trade done fast enough.

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02-27-2013, 03:20 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Back to Murphy.

So Murphy HAS to go back to Kitchener, whether or not we burn a year on his ELC, due to the fact that he is an emergency callup. Is that correct?

If so, his last game is tomorrow night against Sidney Crosby.
Ideally, y'all send him back tomorrow so he can play Friday night in Kitchener! I know your defense corps is decimated, but the Rangers desperately need Murph on the ice.

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02-27-2013, 03:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Ideally, y'all send him back tomorrow so he can play Friday night in Kitchener! I know your defense corps is decimated, but the Rangers desperately need Murph on the ice.
But what better way to send him back to the OHL than with stories of getting to defend against both Ovie AND Sid?

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02-27-2013, 03:40 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
But what better way to send him back to the OHL than with stories of getting to defend against both Ovie AND Sid?
And Tavares and Stamkos as well. Has to be a big boost to his confidence.

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02-27-2013, 05:14 PM
  #186
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I think Murphy has proven that all D prospects we have are expendable.

Murphy will easily be in the line up next season, and would take priority over McBain.

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02-27-2013, 06:14 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
I think Murphy has proven that all D prospects we have are expendable.

Murphy will easily be in the line up next season, and would take priority over McBain.
And after 14 games his first season, many had McBain pegged as a top pairing defenseman the next year. Murphy's 4 game stint has shown to me that he is capable of playing in the NHL in some capacity, he has by no means shown that everyone else is expendable.

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02-27-2013, 06:54 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
And after 14 games his first season, many had McBain pegged as a top pairing defenseman the next year. Murphy's 4 game stint has shown to me that he is capable of playing in the NHL in some capacity, he has by no means shown that everyone else is expendable.
I mean as far as the other close to playing D prospects.

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02-27-2013, 07:18 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
I mean as far as the other close to playing D prospects.
Like who? There's no value outside of Murphy to begin with.

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02-27-2013, 07:33 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Like who? There's no value outside of Murphy to begin with.
But plenty of expiring contracts.

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