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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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02-27-2013, 06:47 PM
  #926
The Sweetness
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Dump and chase.... with puck possession players, strong forechecking.... with only two players capable of retrieving pucks, utilizing stretch passes.... with no momentum, capitalizing on mistakes for offense/offense from defense (forcing the issue) which is what the vast majority of our offense comes from, turnovers, transition game is ****, etc..... from players like Gaborik and Richards who arent particularly strong defensively, etc. This is a system for teams like Columbus that know they have to work hard as a team for a chance to win. Every team relies on showing up at the rink everyday but in comparison, the Rangers are obviously the more skilled team. They can play a skill game.

They should be gaining the zone WITH the puck, not without it. Gaborik and Richards work great in tight areas with the puck. Too much of their game predicates upon creating offense from the other side of it.
To be fair I don't think we've shown much ability to gain the zone with speed with the puck and create offense either. Though I agree our forecheck has been extremely poor and I'm not convinced our current system best fits our current personnel. This is one reason why I'd love to see someone like Ryan O'Reily join the team as I think he'd help us tilt the ice in our favor no matter how we play and he'd be a much better complement than Stepan to Ryan Callahan than Stepan who thrives under a high pressure system.

That being said, I'm sure most of us would be happy to see more puck possession play but I'm honestly not sure we have the time in this season.

In my opinion the most glaring weakness on this team is up the middle, and with Richards regression we don't have any players who can dictate the pace of a game. Until that changes (either through improved play by Richards, Stepan's development or trades) I think we may struggle playing a puck possession game no matter what system we play.

Of course, playing a shortened season with no training camp and a short preseason make any desired changes even harder to implement.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-27-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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02-27-2013, 06:51 PM
  #927
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To be fair I don't think we've shown much ability to gain the zone with speed with the puck and create offense either though I agree our forecheck has been extremely poor. This is one reason why I'd love to see someone like Ryan O'Reily join the team as I think he'd help us tilt the ice in our favor.

That being said, I'm sure most of us would be happy to see more puck possession play but I'm honestly not sure we have the time in this season, nor arguably the speed or offensive skill to implement such a system.

In my opinion the most glaring weakness on this team is up the middle, and with Richards regression we don't have any players who can dictate the pace of a game. Until that changes (either through improved play by Richards, Stepan's development or trades) I think we may struggle playing a puck possession game no matter what system we play.

Of course, playing a shortened season with no training camp and a short preseason make any desired changes even harder to implement.

Well, if the recent playmaking on the PP is any indication, they definitely have the skill to do it.

Their puck movement and urgency on the PP has certainly gone up IMO. Making better plays. These players have the skill and hockey IQ for it. They shouldnt be playing a dumbed down game.

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02-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #928
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That may be the case but that is all speculation on your part, especially given Kreider's poor play down in Hartford as well.

Let's also not forget that Torts has stuck with Miller through his ups and downs this year and also helped us blood a ton of prospects (Hagelin, Anisimov, Stepan, McDonaugh, Del Zotto, Sauer) who have blossomed under Torts's guidance and he's down a great job of promoting youth and getting them to play well.

With Torts track record in developing prospects I don't see what you know about his handling of Kreider that makes you feel he's somehow been managed improperly.
The truth is its own defense.
If you could say we had no playoff experience last year to verify there was Kreider's potential that's one thing.

And let's not forget that eye opener vs Brodeur, spoiling his shutout [think that was last game vs. Devs]. That's REAL ability.

Bottom line is Torts is too damn arrogant and overrated.
I won't say he's ruining Kreider but he's not helping.
Sure we could let CK make his mistakes at AHL instead of here, but given what we have here, I say, pick a line: Kreider --- Miller ---- Callahan which is speed, speed, speed, and let them play. Period.

Kreider is also young, so give him few extra shifts w/Nash
Also let him have 2-3 shifts game at C, which he's played before, and looks good moving thru center ice. Humor me! 2-3 shifts a game there, how much can that hurt. See how he takes to it, and check out the experience it adds for him.


But for this to happen Torts has gotta go.

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02-27-2013, 06:53 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Nope if you have not spent time with Torts and Sully watching them map out their brilliant "system," which you of course must know by its secret name, then you have no right to post in protest of it.


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02-27-2013, 06:56 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
And St. Louis would not do for so many reasons . The cap going there way just one of them .
Is Girardi + Gab this years MZA + a 2 nd Bern ? Hahaha I'd do it haha


Concur there are many reasons for St. Lou not to.
A lot of pluses and minuses both ways.
But given Tarascenko was recently concussed, this could be a good move them to make a play this year....

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02-27-2013, 07:00 PM
  #931
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I was referring more to our "offense" but I agree here.

There is nothing that illustrates trying to fit a square peg in a round hole more than having Marian ****ing Gaborik blocking shots. If we rewound to July 2009 and Tortorella said that, this entire board would explode.

Hey, they signed him, is what I say. To his credit, he hasnt been a prima donna and has done everything thats been asked of him here. Still, hed be much better in a more open system and not one where most of his offense comes from him having to grind along the end boards.
And there's a time and a place for everything.
SC playoffs, esp, deeper you are, you can MAYBE gamble your sniper to injury to block a shot to deny pivotal G in pivotal game,

But this loon of a coach wants it all the time.
And some of us wonder why others complain about the resulting injuries, like MDZ taking one to the ankle. wince. Ok, he's a D, some of that comes with the territory, but again, doing it CONSTANTLY is invitation for trouble, recipe for disaster.

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02-27-2013, 07:06 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Well, if the recent playmaking on the PP is any indication, they definitely have the skill to do it.

Their puck movement and urgency on the PP has certainly gone up IMO. Making better plays. These players have the skill and hockey IQ for it. They shouldnt be playing a dumbed down game.
You think our league worst player play is evidence we have the skill to play a puck possession system?

I'm not sure that is a very convincing argument

As I said I'm not convinced our current system is the best fit for our roster, but I honestly think the overall skill on this roster is average at best, in particular up the middle where we are probably below average at the moment (if Richards regains his game we are decent here), which is essential if we want to play more of a puck possession game.

That being said, I'd bet Torts would probably like his forwards to have the puck more. I hope he just needs more time to show he can adapt to our new roster despite the challenges of the shortened season and all our injuries.

He's shown in Tampa, and in NY with Gabby that skill players can thrive under him. Let's not forget that Torts was a big reason why Richards chose to come to NY and I think if Richards thought Torts was just a one-trick pony relying on a forecheck and shot blocking that he'd have chosen to go elsewhere.

Torts system delivered brilliant results for us last year. Now it is on him to adapt, but I think it's also fair to exhibit a bit more patience given his success last year.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-27-2013 at 07:15 PM.
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02-27-2013, 07:09 PM
  #933
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Not to pick on you specifically, BRB, but I'm getting tired of the posts that are essentially claiming you must have at least spent a minimum of 5 years as an assistant coach at the college level to have the necessary qualifications to comment on the team's style of play.

Do I need to know that it's called the Left Wing Half Nelson Lock Trap and Go with Cherries on Top and that it requires the LD to transport the puck - but only if the play starts below the defensive circles and the center is shadowed - to have the ability to observe it's principle features and to critique them?

C'mon.
Well, Im getting tired of the nonsense that John Tortorella is telling his team to dump the puck at the red line - no questions asked. Its just pure fiction.

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02-27-2013, 07:12 PM
  #934
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And there's a time and a place for everything.
SC playoffs, esp, deeper you are, you can MAYBE gamble your sniper to injury to block a shot to deny pivotal G in pivotal game,

But this loon of a coach wants it all the time.
And some of us wonder why others complain about the resulting injuries, like MDZ taking one to the ankle. wince. Ok, he's a D, some of that comes with the territory, but again, doing it CONSTANTLY is invitation for trouble, recipe for disaster.
We are 14th in blocked shots this year. Maybe this is one area where you can give Torts some credit this year if you don't like all the shot blocking http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats

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02-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #935
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I think we should keep everybody and let a new coach and new GM figure it all out . Maybe a new combo can work together instead of opposite directions . Gabby could play a big part if we had a coach that used a different system on ice . Sometimes the best moves are the ones that are not made . Any GM in the game today could have done what Sather has done here in all those years .

Sorry for getting somewhat off topic .

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02-27-2013, 08:11 PM
  #936
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I think people are not understanding my reasoning for wanting to move Gaborik. I am not calling him a bad player. Nor am I saying he won't come out of his slump. What I am, and have been saying is that I do not believe Gaborik is in this teams long term plans. With that in mind if a team is willing to move a good young player ++ move him now.

The fact of the matter is that Gaborik is paid to be a difference maker night in and night out. No one can say he has been that. I feel the Rangers, given a more deep offensive team by way of him being traded, would be able to do just as well with a team offense mentality.

I also believe that Gaborik is part of the reason for Richards' struggles. They just simply do not mesh.

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02-27-2013, 08:23 PM
  #937
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The day the NYR are liberated from Richards, Gaborik and Boyle can not come to soon and I like Gaborik . If NYR aren't going to compete this year they should be sellers for a change . Honestly what makes anyone think this team can get hot and win 16 playoff games let alone make them .
Stockpile as many picks and or you players and re boot for next season . I don't even care if Crusty the Coach and Side Show Sully are back just rid ourselves of these 7.5$ dollar cap anchors and make a smart signing of a player under 26

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02-27-2013, 08:30 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
The day the NYR are liberated from Richards, Gaborik and Boyle can not come to soon and I like Gaborik . If NYR aren't going to compete this year they should be sellers for a change . Honestly what makes anyone think this team can get hot and win 16 playoff games let alone make them .
Stockpile as many picks and or you players and re boot for next season . I don't even care if Crusty the Coach and Side Show Sully are back just rid ourselves of these 7.5$ dollar cap anchors and make a smart signing of a player under 26
This team needed to hit rock bottom before they were sellers in 04. You think they'll be sellers a year removed from the ECF?

P.S. You got your let alone mixed up. The less likely scenario is supposed to come after the let alone. Should read, what makes you think they'll make the playoffs let alone win 16 playoff games.

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02-27-2013, 08:32 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
This team needed to hit rock bottom before they were sellers in 04. You think they'll be sellers a year removed from the ECF?

P.S. You got your let alone mixed up. The less likely scenario is supposed to come after the let alone. Should read, what makes you think they'll make the playoffs let alone win 16 playoff games.
Should read, the Kings did it last year after having a mediocre season. The roster when healthy, can certainly rattle off 16 wins in the playoffs.

Stand pat until the deadline. Do NOT deal Richards or Gaborik. Pick up a #6 defenseman and add a veteran forward who can chip in offensively.

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02-27-2013, 08:36 PM
  #940
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The day the NYR are liberated from Richards, Gaborik and Boyle can not come to soon and I like Gaborik . If NYR aren't going to compete this year they should be sellers for a change . Honestly what makes anyone think this team can get hot and win 16 playoff games let alone make them .
Stockpile as many picks and or you players and re boot for next season . I don't even care if Crusty the Coach and Side Show Sully are back just rid ourselves of these 7.5$ dollar cap anchors and make a smart signing of a player under 26
More scapegoating. Richards and Gaborik will have to replaced - likely by players you will continue to complain about as soon as they struggle.

Is anyone going to address that the bottom half of the forwards have been much, much worse?

As for the bolded part, I bet a ton of Kings fans said the same thing until very, very late in the season.

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02-27-2013, 08:37 PM
  #941
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Should read your dreaming these guys suck

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02-27-2013, 08:40 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well, Im getting tired of the nonsense that John Tortorella is telling his team to dump the puck at the red line - no questions asked. Its just pure fiction.
Blaming dump and chase seems to be the norm around here whenever anything goes wrong offensively. Reading these boards, one would think that the team never carries the puck in the zone. Stepan flubbing the 3-on-1 yesterday, Gabby opting to pass on the his 2-on-1 with Richards instead of shooting - those poor decisions have nothing to do with dump and chase.

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02-27-2013, 08:43 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Blaming dump and chase seems to be the norm around here whenever anything goes wrong offensively. Reading these boards, one would think that the team never carries the puck in the zone. Stepan flubbing the 3-on-1 yesterday, Gabby opting to pass on the his 2-on-1 with Richards instead of shooting - those poor decisions have nothing to do with dump and chase.
We saw the same crap with Renney, which turned out to be completely wrong. Somewhere, theres a magical coach waiting to unlock the offensive potential of Jeff Halpern and the rest of the newcomers who have played like garbage. Once Torts get fired, we can look forward to this day.

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02-27-2013, 08:44 PM
  #944
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I've always supported Gaborik and still like what he brings . He has to keep the other teams top pair honest most nights or hell burn you . However , I still believe selling him for a young player or a 1 st rounder perhaps would be better for the team especially if he is going to walk ( and he will ) .

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02-27-2013, 08:50 PM
  #945
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Should read, the Kings did it last year after having a mediocre season. The roster when healthy, can certainly rattle off 16 wins in the playoffs.

Stand pat until the deadline. Do NOT deal Richards or Gaborik. Pick up a #6 defenseman and add a veteran forward who can chip in offensively.
You can't go by one outlier year.

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02-27-2013, 08:51 PM
  #946
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The return I would expect for Gaborik would be similar to what Mike Richards got for the Flyers. Schenn + Simmonds +

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02-27-2013, 08:54 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The return I would expect for Gaborik would be similar to what Mike Richards got for the Flyers. Schenn + Simmonds +
Youre going to be waiting a long time. I cant think of one single thing those two situations have in common.

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02-27-2013, 09:00 PM
  #948
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The return I would expect for Gaborik would be similar to what Mike Richards got for the Flyers. Schenn + Simmonds +
Richards signed a deal with a nice caphit and lonterm. He was 27 at the time of the trade.

Gaborik has 1 year left on his contract after this one at $7.5M. He is currently 31.

If anything, take a look at the Dany Heatley trades(s). Similar cap hit, term was longer, but they were also similar age and are both goal scoring forwards. Maybe look at the Hossa or Kovalchuk trades, although they are both better than Gaborik, and they were "rental" type trades.

I would expect a similar player on a similar contract who could use a change of scenery, or a good roster player, good prospect, and maybe a 1st round pick, if we're lucky. More likely a second round pick. Remember, Gaborik has a NTC. From all accounts, he likes New York and he likes the Rangers. Who knows if he'll even waive it? And if he does, who knows what teams he'll waive for? He could severely limit the market, or just say "no, I'd rather stay here".

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02-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #949
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Now, on a more realistic note, Ian White was a healthy scratch for Detroit tonight. He's a RH shot, and he's in the final year of a 2 year, $2.875M contract. He's a huge upgrade on either one of Gilroy, Bickel, or Eminger, and has the potential to be an upgrade on Stralman should he fit in with our D corps.

I think he'd be a good player for Slats to look into.

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02-27-2013, 09:05 PM
  #950
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Now, on a more realistic note, Ian White was a healthy scratch for Detroit tonight. He's a RH shot, and he's in the final year of a 2 year, $2.875M contract. He's a huge upgrade on either one of Gilroy, Bickel, or Eminger, and has the potential to be an upgrade on Stralman should he fit in with our D corps.

I think he'd be a good player for Slats to look into.
Interested.

Realistic,and probably shouldnt cost too much. Refreshing to get away from the pipedreams dominating this thread.

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