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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #526
CasualFan
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Perhaps it's the right time to take a quick moment and realign the conversation back into something that at least resembles a rational business discussion:

- AMUL: The Coyotes are playing the remainder of the 12-13 Season under a tolling version of the AMUL. The NHL has not exercised their exclusive right to an extension of up to 10 years. That clause in the AMUL provides the NHL some security if they do not have a valid relocation option for the 13-14 Season. Note: There is no right to renew the $25MM AMF. There are also no performance standards in the AMUL, so the NHL could continue to keep the arena dark for all dates other than Coyotes games.

- Beacon: The core competency of the Beacon LLC is planning acquisitions and raising capital in the context of professional sports ownership. If Beacon is involved, and I have seen no credible report to indicate they are, it would be most probable that they are attempting to align potential buyers; determine the terms of said buyers MOU; present the MOU as an option for Glendale.

- Business Friendly: I tend not to value sound bites from politicians but taking Weiers at his word, in this context, business friendly would seem to imply exploring viable business opportunities. The Coyotes are not a viable business in Glendale. I recall seeing a paper by Tindall that indicated that once a public entity commits to funding an arena/stadium project, that public entity must never deviate from the anchor tenant model. Of course, that's an insane position to take when confronted with the fiscal realities of the Coyotes. When you remove the bullcrap Pollack/Hocking report and turn off the Beasley/Colston/Lynch presentations, you're left with the undeniable fact that the Coyotes are the worst possible tenant for the arena. The team does not generate enough revenue to cover the arena debt. Then, separately, they require a massive operational subsidy to even exist. Changing direction while still allowing the NHL to competitively bid is the only reasonable response.

- TeamBeavis: Clark, to whatever extent she even authors things attributed to her, and Robocall Guy are fiction writers. Neither is qualified to discuss the mechanics of this transaction so they fill in their lack of knowledge with absurd conspiracies and tabloid speculation. Treating their ramblings as legitimate updates is beyond foolish. For all their bluster about the inner workings of City Hall, neither knew about the Tindall ouster until after it happened. Keep that in mind if you choose to read the next "rumors are swirling" blog.

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
And why Beacon, with its ties to Kaites/Reinsdorf and past performance (lack thereof) record? Why not someone else, say SportsCorp or whomever, fresh sets of eyes?
Speculation and my opinion on this is...

With Beacon, we have seen historically that there's a tie-in with Reinsdorf... and not only in regards to the Coyotes pre-BK. If MR or JR are quietly stalking the franchise again, and the inferences by the BPAC that theres an out clause, well there's Option 1. Not what the fans would be enamored with, surely, but to the CoG and Weiers it presents itself with presumably a lower AMF, gets this acidic thing-that-should-not-be situation removed from the current status... albeit short term. If the window collapses (i.e. attendance, revenue losses, etc), the ol' "we gave it our best shot" phrase comes to mind. I see them willing to eat the losses knowing not only that there is an out clause that can be envoked, but that envoking that out clause is fairly certain to become realized.

Option 2 would be the Leblanc/Grant Woods scenario. But not in the sense of purchasing the franchise outright. Again, this is my opinion and I'm speculating but, we've seen it reported that Leblanc pitched the AHL + Arena Mgmt piece last year as a Plan B to the CoG. We've seen Weiers quoted as saying there's a review of "options". Well, this may very well be an option being taken into consideration.

But we know there's quite a few things that have to fall into place for that to happen. Most notably, the AHL and Andrews (that'd be Dave Andrews - President of the AHL for those not knowing) would have to be willing to expand or even relocate a franchise to Glendale. I'm not aware, or have seen, anyway ripples in the pool that is the AHL of franchises for sale or ripe for relocating... at this time. I'm not so sure, at least in the initial years anyway, if an AHL team replacing a NHL one is going to be met with any success from the fan base. That's just me.

These are the only 2 possibilities that we are aware of, even if they are speculative and shrouded in mystery.

If Weiers is counting Gallacher as someone who is interested, as reported and rumored to have been, then there's Option 3. But we have no firm optics, really none of the above as well, into this possibility.

If there's a 4th, as stated by Weiers, well that one's definately one of luke warm interest or conversely, going about it the absolute preferred way by the NHL and it's air-tight closed lipped.

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
...It's a lot to ask investors to give up a 25% stake in an overpriced
and money-losing asset when you have to pay the freight.
It sure is, but remember too its just a "rumour". But if true, then yes, absolutely a ridiculous % for an architect to be asking without much if anything in the purchase & project himself beyond concept & sweat equity. I suppose the justification for such might be that he was the one who negotiated the deal with Glendale and thereby makes some sort of tangential claim of propriety in reeling in $300M+ in funding but still. I would have though something more in line being 10% with some investment himself, appointment to position of President & designate with the Board of Governors, reasonable remuneration performance based & so on.

25%, or 20% as is common in the movie industry whereby an 'A' lister, and theres very very very few of those will waive their up-front fee and instead receive whats called a Cash Break; 20%, a combination of the Net & Gross Points, the studios adding that 20% to Production Costs without paying it up-front. Paid on the back-end through theatre ticket sales, DVD, commercial sales & so on. The star of the movie in effect an equity holder. Gretzky worked a similar play with Phoenix, a "name", supposed drawing power with a miniscule % in comparison to GJ's purported 25% stake and look how that worked out? Just where Greg Jamison would get off asking for a quarter of the pie I have no idea. Money's dried up, finding private placements from hedge funders or wherever for sports & entertainment properties beyond competitive; up-front costs cut to the bone with demands of serious majority positioning if you ever expect to secure seed money. Beyond difficult if the property, be it a hockey franchise or a movie might be a dog that dont hunt.

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02-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I was just discussing this last night with a friend. Maybe that's why GJ didn't want to say who the investors were just in case the CoG wanted to negotiate behind his back and cut him out of the deal
Wait, are you saying that Jamison is such a rube that he didn't have non-compete, non-disclosures with his investors?

On the one hand, Jamison is the business mastermind who would revive the wreckage of the Coyotes.
On the other hand, Jamison doesn't even have the most fundamental agreements in place to prevent behind-his-back dealings?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post

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02-27-2013, 01:11 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Maybe that's why GJ didn't want to say who the investors were just in case the CoG wanted to negotiate behind his back and cut him out of the deal.
Ya, I dont think that was ever a possibility, not unless whoever these mystery investors were decided to go rogue. Jamison had non-disclosures which these guys wouldve had to have signed off on in order to see his prospectus that included clauses absolutely forbidding whomever from trying an end-run and dealing directly with the "source", as in the COG. There are countless cases where ND's are breached and such attempts made, some successfully. We had the case here in Vancouver between the Aquilini's vs Gaglardi and another partner, the latter two cut out of negotiations with John McCaw. The case of Michael Reinsdorf who had partnered with a company I believe called West Coast Arena (or something like) Corp in dealing with a municipality to build a 10,000+ seat venue in California, Michael then purportedly cutting out WC & going direct. Wound up in court, no idea what the disposition is on that one.

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02-27-2013, 01:22 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
The case of Michael Reinsdorf who had partnered with a company I believe called West Coast Arena (or something like) Corp in dealing with a municipality to build a 10,000+ seat venue in California, Michael then purportedly cutting out WC & going direct. Wound up in court, no idea what the disposition is on that one.
It settled OOC

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02-27-2013, 01:28 PM
  #532
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post
... patience. I once signed one where if breached the penalties included sending the principal authors family on a Round the World Cruise, very specific. 114 Days. Two First Class Cabins. Ground & Air Transportation. Spending money in various denominations. Holland America; the vessel Amsterdam sailing outta Fort Lauderdale with dates etc etc etc... honestly. Just couldnt resist signing it. Just too hilarious for words really. Still puts me in stitches thinking about it.

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02-27-2013, 01:41 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... patience. I once signed one where if breached the penalties included sending the principal authors family on a Round the World Cruise, very specific. 114 Days. Two First Class Cabins. Ground & Air Transportation. Spending money in various denominations. Holland America; the vessel Amsterdam sailing outta Fort Lauderdale with dates etc etc etc... honestly. Just couldnt resist signing it. Just too hilarious for words really. Still puts me in stitches thinking about it.
Cruises can end badly, I would have held out for a balloon ride... Those always go well

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02-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Wait, are you saying that Jamison is such a rube that he didn't have non-compete, non-disclosures with his investors?

On the one hand, Jamison is the business mastermind who would revive the wreckage of the Coyotes.
On the other hand, Jamison doesn't even have the most fundamental agreements in place to prevent behind-his-back dealings?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post
Yeah, pretty much. I wonder if someone threatened and end run knowing the deal would fall through and perhaps negating the non-disclosures, etc.? We'll never know but when I heard about someone wanting to be a majority owner and having all of the power to derail the team, I certainly didn't even consider GJ. But thought about it afterward and I guess I'm not surprised. The dude was setting himself up to be the savior, so a power grab at the end isn't something I would put past him.

Either way, here we are, deal failed...next!

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02-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... patience. I once signed one where if breached the penalties included sending the principal authors family on a Round the World Cruise, very specific. 114 Days. Two First Class Cabins. Ground & Air Transportation. Spending money in various denominations. Holland America; the vessel Amsterdam sailing outta Fort Lauderdale with dates etc etc etc... honestly. Just couldnt resist signing it. Just too hilarious for words really. Still puts me in stitches thinking about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Cruises can end badly, I would have held out for a balloon ride... Those always go well
For some reason the group Fifth Dimension just came to mind.... Up, Up and Away and all.

But CF... here was a chance to lock down a bead kiosk franchise with Killion (controlling interest, NDA, the works).

BTW...... re: "business friendly" may be translated to "casino".

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02-27-2013, 01:55 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
It settled OOC
Interesting. I looked it up. Westcoast Arena Ventures LLC vs Beacon Sports Capital & Michael Reinsdorf, IFG. 2006. Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles. Case No. BC 337 982.... nothin like a Non-Disclose suit in terms of just general entertainment diversions. Most amusing, and foolish.

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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Cruises can end badly, I would have held out for a balloon ride... Those always go well
... I believe those were mentioned & included, sailing over Luxor in Egypt, the Pyramids, Sphinx, ryder written in requiring I pay for Liability & Travel Insurance, full Medical & Health. The Lawyer who drafted the thing became a good friend & drinking buddy of yours truly of course. Just a panic... didnt bother doing any business with his client though. No Sir, wont be availing myself of that "opportunity" thanks. But good luck.

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02-27-2013, 02:28 PM
  #537
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You know what would be fun. If in the end Jim Bailsille buys the team. In 2012 he liquidated his remaining RIM stock for between $250 and $300 million. Plus what he had from before, he's still close to being worth a billion $.

Seriously how funny would it be if the only person who could take the team was Balsille?

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02-27-2013, 03:18 PM
  #538
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Seriously how funny would it be if the only person who could take the team was Balsille?
Beyond imagining... remember this? http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=288286 and thats just Melnyk, but one of many obstacles.

Some choice tidbits... his willingness to drag down anyone he can get his hands on along with himself is discouraging and saddens me.... I clearly believe the sport of hockey is better off without him... and so on & so forth.


Last edited by Killion: 02-27-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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02-27-2013, 07:25 PM
  #539
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Glendale councilman Gary Sherwood was interviewed today on the Coyotes.

Straight up interview..... several tidbits in it.

http://sportsbreakthrough.com/show-a...hip-situation/

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02-27-2013, 07:36 PM
  #540
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Glendale councilman Gary Sherwood was interviewed today on the Coyotes.

Straight up interview..... several tidbits in it.

http://sportsbreakthrough.com/show-a...hip-situation/
Opposing interview of Joyce's on AZSportsTalk (Segment 6)?

http://www.azsportstalk.com/wednesday.html

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02-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #541
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Opposing interview of Joyce's on AZSportsTalk (Segment 6)?

http://www.azsportstalk.com/wednesday.html
Got to love Joyce!

1) there is no sense of urgency. Yeah its been dragging for almost 4 years this mayor has been in charge for 5 weeks. Why would he jump through hoops.

2) she said that the mayor speaks with a forked tongue, "he says he wants the Coyotes here but he doesn't want to hurt the taxpayers and you can't have it both ways" so you admit keeping the Coyotes hurts the tax payers.

3) She talks about her hit count on her page. I wonder if she looked at the IP addresses. I'm sure a lot of her hits are from Canada.

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02-27-2013, 07:58 PM
  #542
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Got to love Joyce!

1) there is no sense of urgency. Yeah its been dragging for almost 4 years this mayor has been in charge for 5 weeks. Why would he jump through hoops.

2) she said that the mayor speaks with a forked tongue, "he says he wants the Coyotes here but he doesn't want to hurt the taxpayers and you can't have it both ways" so you admit keeping the Coyotes hurts the tax payers.

3) She talks about her hit count on her page. I wonder if she looked at the IP addresses. I'm sure a lot of her hits are from Canada.
And in Sherwood's interview, he said that June/end of hockey season is the deciding factor...

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02-27-2013, 08:11 PM
  #543
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And in Sherwood's interview, he said that June/end of hockey season is the deciding factor...
Gee.... Joyce said that weeks ago.

Joyce said Beacon was involved again.... Sherwood confirmed they were involved again.

So how do you come up with the assumption they're opposite viewpoints??

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02-27-2013, 08:18 PM
  #544
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And in Sherwood's interview, he said that June/end of hockey season is the deciding factor...
The analysts after the Sherwood were talking about the marketing they need to do and they were talking about discounting tickets, family packs, student discounts, etc. Huh aren't they already doing that?

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02-27-2013, 08:30 PM
  #545
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The analysts after the Sherwood were talking about the marketing they need to do and they were talking about discounting tickets, family packs, student discounts, etc. Huh aren't they already doing that?
Discounts, discounts, get your discounts...

Here's the list (11 out of 24 games):
  • SoBe Kids Free Mondays
  • Buck Bash
  • Bud Light Party Pack

Every Mon., Tues., and Weds. games: Student Rush

Then all of the 'business' giveaways (mine has lower bowl at $50, and upper at $20).

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02-27-2013, 08:32 PM
  #546
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Personally, I am now leaning towards the Yotes going to Seattle instead of Quebec City.

Let's just leave it at that.

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02-27-2013, 08:32 PM
  #547
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In the Sherwood segment he suggests Jamison still lurking around now looking at a 12 year deal but still looking at 12-13 mil/year.....but it's half price...bargain!

His investors will be proud

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02-27-2013, 08:36 PM
  #548
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Joyce said Beacon was involved again.... Sherwood confirmed they were involved again.
Pretty much what I figured out all on my lonesome; castigated for even thinking such.... why do I bother TL? Lets at least be honest & real here on this thread, with hf. Facts are facts. Been rumoured regardless of the cloyingly clutch & cute putdowns of Joyce Clark. That maybe, just maybe, the Woman knows what she's talking about. Anyone shutting their ears to the cacophony does so at their own peril. Opinions formed & born from ignorance & misunderstanding. You learn more in life from being silent, actually listening & being patient than you ever would in paying attention to the sound of your own voice. Let the players play, speak, reserve judgement. Aint over by a longshot.

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02-27-2013, 08:37 PM
  #549
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Got to love Joyce!

1) there is no sense of urgency. Yeah its been dragging for almost 4 years this mayor has been in charge for 5 weeks. Why would he jump through hoops.
Who says he isn't?? Other than the fact he likes to take advantage of free access to the city owned suites at jobing.com and Camelback Ranch what else does anyone really know?

Quote:
2) she said that the mayor speaks with a forked tongue, "he says he wants the Coyotes here but he doesn't want to hurt the taxpayers and you can't have it both ways" so you admit keeping the Coyotes hurts the tax payers.
She's looking at the bigger picture. I put forward a few weeks ago the concept that Ellman used the NHL franchise as a loss leader to a much bigger project Westgate. Ellman was going to sell off the entire project this coming year had he been able to build it out on schedule.

The Coyotes were part of a bigger thing. Not meant to stand on their own. That's why you saw Glendale fighting so hard to keep the team there. Most here can't seem to see past that.

Quote:
3) She talks about her hit count on her page. I wonder if she looked at the IP addresses. I'm sure a lot of her hits are from Canada.
Oh boy....... could I have fun with that one.....

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02-27-2013, 08:39 PM
  #550
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So long Craig... A very strong performance in these shenanigans proving there are no small roles.

I think I'd nominate him for a Best Supporting Actor in this Ensemble Comedy.

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