HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Notices

The Winger Acquisition Thread | Part VI: Lacking Wingers, "We Lay Waste Our Powers"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2013, 05:06 PM
  #51
Big McLargehuge
Moderator
Diving in Head First
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Finland
Posts: 51,790
vCash: 422
Jussi wouldn't be a good fit for this system.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:30 PM
  #52
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spcastlemagic View Post
Shero: Hey Martin do you want to be traded?
Martin: No I want to play up to my potential here.
Shero: Ok.
Martin: *plays like a freaking Norris candidate*
Shero: Hey Dan, do you want to be fired?
Bylsma: No, I want to coach up to my potential here.
Shero: O'k
Bylsma: *coaches worse and worse each day and coaches today like it's next year*

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Good idea.

I'M ON A COFFEE-ONLY DIET UNTIL SHERO MAKES A MOVE!
Just don't hold your breath between sips.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:33 PM
  #53
WhatsaMaatta
Registered User
 
WhatsaMaatta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,253
vCash: 500
I haven't seen much of Stewart this season, but I wouldn't trade Despres for Stewart straight up. He's just too unique of a player.

WhatsaMaatta is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:37 PM
  #54
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
I haven't seen much of Stewart this season, but I wouldn't trade Despres for Stewart straight up. He's just too unique of a player.
Leaving aside whether you're right in your assessment, how can you comment on the value of a player from another team if you really haven't watched him play?

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:41 PM
  #55
Sidney the Kidney
Selke BylsmAdams
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,738
vCash: 80
I really hope that Shero's winger acquisition is of the more-certainty variety rather than a minor wish-and-a-prayer acquisition like a Jussi Jokinen.

Also, the days of bringing in guys like Comrie, Sullivan (even though he was solid), Satan, etc. should be over. The Neal trade is more in line with the kind of player I'd hope he targets; a young guy that's already shown potential, or a veteran who is still productive, rather than a veteran whose best days are clearly in the past.

Sidney the Kidney is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:46 PM
  #56
IcedCapp
You're wrong. :(
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
I haven't seen much of Stewart this season, but I wouldn't trade Despres for Stewart straight up. He's just too unique of a player.
Despres isn't even playing. Let's just dump him for top-6 talent that will.

Yes, I'm pouting.

IcedCapp is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:48 PM
  #57
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I really hope that Shero's winger acquisition is of the more-certainty variety rather than a minor wish-and-a-prayer acquisition like a Jussi Jokinen.

Also, the days of bringing in guys like Comrie, Sullivan (even though he was solid), Satan, etc. should be over. The Neal trade is more in line with the kind of player I'd hope he targets; a young guy that's already shown potential, or a veteran who is still productive, rather than a veteran whose best days are clearly in the past.
Yeah, but you may not get a deal like the Neal trade, where you had a perfect alignment of organizational needs and assets, where one organization had a guy on it's third pairing who the other organization saw as a top pairing guy (Gogo) and the other organization had a superfluous, in its mind, top six forward that your organization craved, along with, from your perspective, a replacement for the bottom pairing who had some upside but at the time was a bit of a reclamation project.

Between that one and the Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi deal, Ray Shero has had two 'perfect alignment' impact deals. Some GM's never even have the opportunity to realize one. Problem is, I actually hope it's not Neal style deal or bust for Shero, because far more often than not you do have to give something that stings a bit to get a difference maker. And, in the meantime, if THAT is the prerequisite, then the Jokinen's of this world are what you'll continue to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Despres isn't even playing. Let's just dump him for top-6 talent that will.

Yes, I'm pouting.
O'k, you need a caffeine time-out.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:49 PM
  #58
WhatsaMaatta
Registered User
 
WhatsaMaatta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Leaving aside whether you're right in your assessment, how can you comment on the value of a player from another team if you really haven't watched him play?
I watched Stewart play the two seasons previous to this, which is a much larger sample size than the less than 20 games that have been played this year.

If you're going to trade Despres, you're going to have to bring in someone who brings his A game consistently(not stewart). And I doubt, as of right now, that Despres' value is enough to garner that kind of return,

WhatsaMaatta is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 05:55 PM
  #59
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
I watched Stewart play the two seasons previous to this, which is a much larger sample size than the less than 20 games that have been played this year.

If you're going to trade Despres, you're going to have to bring in someone who brings his A game consistently(not stewart). And I doubt, as of right now, that Despres' value is enough to garner that kind of return,
That's a pretty curious (and deeply flawed) approach to evaluating other players from other teams.

I'm not talking about the merits of your evaluation here. I'm talking about this whole 'well, I haven't seen him lately but I've watched him the last two year' approach to scouting. Nothing wrong with not having seen someone. Nothing wrong with saying 'I wouldn't be inclined to move Despres for him'. But, to say 'I haven't watched Stewart lately but I wouldn't move Despres for him' is something different.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 06:13 PM
  #60
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 14,136
vCash: 500
Stewart has been a better all around player this year than Neal. Playing with lesser centers and in a system far less conducive to his style of game.

We may have missed the boat on him. If he's willing to sign for less than Backes, he's likely there longterm. Hoping we at least have a shot a him in the offseason.

mpp9 is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 06:15 PM
  #61
Sidney the Kidney
Selke BylsmAdams
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,738
vCash: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Yeah, but you may not get a deal like the Neal trade, where you had a perfect alignment of organizational needs and assets, where one organization had a guy on it's third pairing who the other organization saw as a top pairing guy (Gogo) and the other organization had a superfluous, in its mind, top six forward that your organization craved, along with, from your perspective, a replacement for the bottom pairing who had some upside but at the time was a bit of a reclamation project.

Between that one and the Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi deal, Ray Shero has had two 'perfect alignment' impact deals. Some GM's never even have the opportunity to realize one. Problem is, I actually hope it's not Neal style deal or bust for Shero, because far more often than not you do have to give something that stings a bit to get a difference maker. And, in the meantime, if THAT is the prerequisite, then the Jokinen's of this world are what you'll continue to see.
When I say "like the Neal trade", I'm including any possible deal that lands guys like Kulemin, Stewart, or Setoguchi in that category. Guys who are still relatively young and have shown the potential to be top six wingers.

I'm not necessarily expecting Bobby Ryan or Corey Perry. It's just more that I'd rather not take a chance on a guy like Jokinen, who while not "old", is getting up there in age and likely what you see is the best you'll ever get (or worse, if he's in decline).

Sidney the Kidney is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 06:21 PM
  #62
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
Whatever we do we should not consider the context of the team we're talking about when discerning whether a trade is likely.

Hint: STL wants to win the Cup also. Stewart is finally playing well, one of their Top RW is suffering from a concussion, and the guys we'd offer on D won't make their D much better for this year / might only make it marginally better. Sounds like a perfectly logical trade to me...

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 06:23 PM
  #63
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
When I say "like the Neal trade", I'm including any possible deal that lands guys like Kulemin, Stewart, or Setoguchi in that category. Guys who are still relatively young and have shown the potential to be top six wingers.

I'm not necessarily expecting Bobby Ryan or Corey Perry. It's just more that I'd rather not take a chance on a guy like Jokinen, who while not "old", is getting up there in age and likely what you see is the best you'll ever get (or worse, if he's in decline).
No, I understood. What I meant was this: We gave up Gologoski (a guy who at the time was the third pairing ES defenseman) to get Neal and Niskanen. About as risk free an impact deal as you can get. We gave up Whitney (who'd become expendable with the emergence of Letang and the return of Gonchar) for Kunitz and Tangradi. A little riskier in the sense that you we're banking on Letang's emergence carrying over into the playoffs (which it did) and on Gogo to be there in case someone got hurt (which he was when Ovi kneed Gonchar).

I call those perfect trades, deals where you'd have been hard pressed to find more than maybe a handful of Penguins fans who balked at the time. The next impact deal . . . it's going to involve a top defensive prospect or a first or something else. It's either going to be for a rental (like Iginla) or a question mark in a lot of people's minds (like a Kulemin or a Stewart), and opinions will be really, really divided. Of course, that assumes Ray Shero will pay the type of 'high' price that will look like a bargain when the playoffs come . . . like he did with Hossa and hasn't done since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Whatever we do we should not consider the context of the team we're talking about when discerning whether a trade is likely.

Hint: STL wants to win the Cup also. Stewart is finally playing well, one of their Top RW is suffering from a concussion, and the guys we'd offer on D won't make their D much better for this year / might only make it marginally better. Sounds like a perfectly logical trade to me...
How is that logical?

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:19 PM
  #64
WhatsaMaatta
Registered User
 
WhatsaMaatta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
That's a pretty curious (and deeply flawed) approach to evaluating other players from other teams.

I'm not talking about the merits of your evaluation here. I'm talking about this whole 'well, I haven't seen him lately but I've watched him the last two year' approach to scouting. Nothing wrong with not having seen someone. Nothing wrong with saying 'I wouldn't be inclined to move Despres for him'. But, to say 'I haven't watched Stewart lately but I wouldn't move Despres for him' is something different.
You're over complicating this. All I was saying was that I wouldn't trade Despres for Stewart based off of what I've seen.

WhatsaMaatta is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:28 PM
  #65
Randy Butternubs
Makin Bacon Pancakes
 
Randy Butternubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,573
vCash: 500
I'd love to have Stewart on this team. Hopefully Tarasenko gets healthy soon, which would make Stewart more available.

Also, when Simmonds was on the Kings I thought he'd look great on this team. I guess that ship has sailed for quite some time.

Randy Butternubs is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 07:29 PM
  #66
Nietzsche Zone Play
Registered User
 
Nietzsche Zone Play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Leaving aside whether you're right in your assessment, how can you comment on the value of a player from another team if you really haven't watched him play?
This person didn't comment at all on Stewart... they said why they wouldn't trade Despres for him. "Stewart" could've been anyone in that assessment.

Nietzsche Zone Play is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:04 PM
  #67
Sjb141
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 420
vCash: 500
Credit to the op for the nice list.

I think the options are pretty well debated by now (ad naseum). Curious if anyone can think of any dark horse candidates that haven't been mentioned yet?

Sjb141 is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:25 PM
  #68
Randy Butternubs
Makin Bacon Pancakes
 
Randy Butternubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
Curious if anyone can think of any dark horse candidates that haven't been mentioned yet?
Etem? Seems like Anaheim could use some D.

Etem for Morrow? (flame away )

Randy Butternubs is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:26 PM
  #69
Ogelthorpe
Who do you play for?
 
Ogelthorpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
And why was it so obvious? Because our GM is too small minded to bring in any European players. Michalek had one off year and the dude gets traded for scraps.
In all fairness, Michalek wanted to be traded, so Shero gave him his wish.

Ogelthorpe is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:30 PM
  #70
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Butternubs View Post
Etem? Seems like Anaheim could use some D.

Etem for Morrow? (flame away )
Until he proves something (Etem) that's a bad trade. Etem hasn't made much of an impact so far. I think Morrow is much closer to a sure thing for what he is supposed to do for us, then Etem is for what he is supposed to do.

There are only two guys on Anaheim's team we should be thinking about giving up big-time assets for and Etem isn't close to being one of them IMO.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:30 PM
  #71
Mo Wanchuk
Embrace the Hate
 
Mo Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Palm Isle
Country: United States
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
In all fairness, Michalek wanted to be traded, so Shero gave him his wish.
Exactly. He wanted out, cited personal reasons from what I can remember. So Shero did him a solid and sent him back to the yotes.

Mo Wanchuk is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:33 PM
  #72
Ogelthorpe
Who do you play for?
 
Ogelthorpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by namsnoodle View Post
In my pipe dream, Bobby Ryan is Malkin's Kunitz!
I like your dream, but Kunitz would be Malkin's Kunitz, and Ryan would play with Sid.......That would be sick!

Ogelthorpe is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:35 PM
  #73
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Despres isn't even playing. Let's just dump him for top-6 talent that will.

Yes, I'm pouting.
If Shero ever trades Despres, it better be a situation how he got Neal. A young winger that is having a bit of a down year and can be had for less. We'd all be pissed off the moment the trade happened, but the moment that winger does well and someone like Dumoulin or Morrow steps up, people will be fine.

Honour Over Glory is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:39 PM
  #74
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
When are we going to kill the "Malkin's Kunitz" and "Sid's Neal" thing? It's an overly simplified perspective on who these various players are, and it sounds retarded too. Ryan would be Malkin / Sid's Ryan... the end.

And.... we wish.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 08:45 PM
  #75
WarriorScholar
Registered User
 
WarriorScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,523
vCash: 500
We need Kennedy's Kennedy .

WarriorScholar is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.