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Old
02-27-2013, 01:08 PM
  #276
StreakingRed
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Many playoff teams blow a game from time to time what makes them a playoff team isn't the fact that they blew the game but the next game they play as if they didn't blow the game before. Every team makes mistakes the good ones are the ones that learn from them and grow.

The good ones are also those who can go above .500 and go on winning steaks, while beating teams they should be beating. You can't possibly believe this team is a playoff team, can you? I mean, how many times are we gonna have to watch the same ending to the season play out?

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02-27-2013, 03:11 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by StreakingRed View Post
The good ones are also those who can go above .500 and go on winning steaks, while beating teams they should be beating. You can't possibly believe this team is a playoff team, can you? I mean, how many times are we gonna have to watch the same ending to the season play out?
Show me where I called them a playoff team.

Vancouver blew a lead to Edmonton and lost the game in overtime this year are they not a playoff team, is Edmonton not a team they should beat?

I have already said they need a winning streak but given that they are over .500 without their starting goaltender is at least a sign that this team could get on a hot streak when Kipper comes back.

We have 5 wins with our back up in 11 games started this year. Last year we had 2 wins in 14 games started by our backups those extra 6 points get us in the playoffs just calm down until we see what we have with Kipper in net.

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02-27-2013, 03:46 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Show me where I called them a playoff team.

Vancouver blew a lead to Edmonton and lost the game in overtime this year are they not a playoff team, is Edmonton not a team they should beat?

I have already said they need a winning streak but given that they are over .500 without their starting goaltender is at least a sign that this team could get on a hot streak when Kipper comes back.

We have 5 wins with our back up in 11 games started this year. Last year we had 2 wins in 14 games started by our backups those extra 6 points get us in the playoffs just calm down until we see what we have with Kipper in net.
Just to throw out the stat from week ago 22-11 isn't going to happen even with Kipper back. If Feaster uses kippers injury as an excuse to not sell at this deadline I'm going to be pissed.

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02-27-2013, 03:53 PM
  #279
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Just to throw out the stat from week ago 22-11 isn't going to happen even with Kipper back. If Feaster uses kippers injury as an excuse to not sell at this deadline I'm going to be pissed.
Based on the current rate of the west the cut off will be about 55 points as it stands now we have 18 points so we need 37 points in 30 games and right now given the pace of this month we have played at a pace of 35 points in 30 games.

I am not saying we are a playoff team but seriously people need to get away from the ledge we are on the bubble for the playoffs with out Kipper if he comes back like usual Kipper there is no reason to think our pace won't increase by 5 points.

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02-27-2013, 04:09 PM
  #280
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Just to throw out the stat from week ago 22-11 isn't going to happen even with Kipper back. If Feaster uses kippers injury as an excuse to not sell at this deadline I'm going to be pissed.
The Flames could easily make the playoffs without having to go 22-11 that stat doesn't have that much truth to it. I believe that if this team had a healthy line-up the whole season they would make the playoffs. They are a better team than they we're last year and I will give them that much credit. With that said I don't see this team finishing higher then 7th-8th place so we have to ask ourselves is it worth it? Of course we could surprise many teams and have a nice run come playoff time but the odds are not in our favor and since we do actually have some key injuries our odds of making it are even smaller.

IMO, this team needs to sell now. Our best players are all in their 30's and if we've been struggling to make the playoffs for the past 3 years, what are our chances this season and the next with our core being one year older? If we are not making the playoffs I would rather watch some young talent get better then watch our veterans get worse. Anyways, I love Iggy and if he wants to stay he can stay but I think its only slowing down the rebuild process.. But as long as they don't trade the first i'm happy as they have to keep building for the future.

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02-27-2013, 04:37 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Just to throw out the stat from week ago 22-11 isn't going to happen even with Kipper back. If Feaster uses kippers injury as an excuse to not sell at this deadline I'm going to be pissed.
This organization will not sell! I don't know why people keep thinking they will. They have expressed over and over in numerous ways that they, for some reason, believe they are a playoff team and that will not change until iginla retires. The organization has given no indication whatsoever that they will sell at anytime at all. It will not happen with our current management.

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02-27-2013, 04:59 PM
  #282
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Didn't Feaster say if him and Hartley don't make the playoffs this year they might as well both look for new jobs?

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02-27-2013, 05:01 PM
  #283
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Didn't Feaster say if him and Hartley don't make the playoffs this year they might as well both look for new jobs?
No, Feaster said that about firing Hartley. If he has to fire Hartley they both might as well find new jobs.

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02-27-2013, 07:06 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Show me where I called them a playoff team.

You didn't say it, but you're making apologies for them and comparing them to playoff teams. That's why I asked. You're basically saying there's a chance they make the playoffs. I disagree. Too inconsistent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Vancouver blew a lead to Edmonton and lost the game in overtime this year are they not a playoff team, is Edmonton not a team they should beat?

Vancouver is a playoff team. They haven't missed the playoffs the last 3 years. I understand what you're trying to get at, but it's a poor example.

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02-27-2013, 07:22 PM
  #285
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You didn't say it, but you're making apologies for them and comparing them to playoff teams. That's why I asked. You're basically saying there's a chance they make the playoffs. I disagree. Too inconsistent.
No they blew it last night no doubt about it, but to simply right the season off seems very narrow minded we have has good of a chance to make the playoffs as we thought we would have at the start of the year 37 points over 30 games isn't a huge reach for us to due. We haven't missed yet that being said I don't think they make it.

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02-27-2013, 07:37 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
No they blew it last night no doubt about it, but to simply right the season off seems very narrow minded we have has good of a chance to make the playoffs as we thought we would have at the start of the year 37 points over 30 games isn't a huge reach for us to due. We haven't missed yet that being said I don't think they make it.
You'll have to forgive us diehards but we don't have Vancouver to cheer for and come back to Calgary and say everything will be ok. We live and die by this team and we are, at this point, scorned... exhausted. Our passion overrides our best judgement sometimes, but for the most part, we're sick of the same song and dance.

37 PTS in 30 GMS is basically a record of 18-11-1. You can try and make it look easier with some OT/SO wins but with this teams abysmal OT/SO record, those just aren't happening. From what we have seen, this team is not capable of going 18-11-1. Most of us are making peace with that. Again, the last thing we need is a 9th/10th place finish. It's incredibly frustrating to watch time and time again. Frankly, I'm sick of it.

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02-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
You'll have to forgive us diehards but we don't have Vancouver to cheer for and come back to Calgary and say everything will be ok. We live and die by this team and we are, at this point, scorned... exhausted. Our passion overrides our best judgement sometimes, but for the most part, we're sick of the same song and dance.

37 PTS in 30 GMS is basically a record of 18-11-1. You can try and make it look easier with some OT/SO wins but with this teams abysmal OT/SO record, those just aren't happening. From what we have seen, this team is not capable of going 18-11-1. Most of us are making peace with that. Again, the last thing we need is a 9th/10th place finish. It's incredibly frustrating to watch time and time again. Frankly, I'm sick of it.
Wow didn't realize I didn't care about this team as much as you guys I apologize maybe I will go put on my Conroy jersey he is still captain right?

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02-27-2013, 07:56 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
You'll have to forgive us diehards but we don't have Vancouver to cheer for and come back to Calgary and say everything will be ok. We live and die by this team and we are, at this point, scorned... exhausted. Our passion overrides our best judgement sometimes, but for the most part, we're sick of the same song and dance.

37 PTS in 30 GMS is basically a record of 18-11-1. You can try and make it look easier with some OT/SO wins but with this teams abysmal OT/SO record, those just aren't happening. From what we have seen, this team is not capable of going 18-11-1. Most of us are making peace with that. Again, the last thing we need is a 9th/10th place finish. It's incredibly frustrating to watch time and time again. Frankly, I'm sick of it.

Exactly. Well said.

Personally, I'd rather see this team draft in the top 5 this year than make the playoffs. It would be more beneficial to us to draft that center we have so desperately needed than get our ***** handed to us in a 1st round exit. Think future.

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02-27-2013, 07:57 PM
  #289
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Wow didn't realize I didn't care about this team as much as you guys I apologize maybe I will go put on my Conroy jersey he is still captain right?
Thought it was Boughner?

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:08 PM
  #290
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Todd Simpson anyone?

Because let's be honest these supposed "die hards" that are freaking out over an overtime loss are doing nothing but clamoring for another young guns era.

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02-27-2013, 08:20 PM
  #291
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Exactly. Well said.

Personally, I'd rather see this team draft in the top 5 this year than make the playoffs. It would be more beneficial to us to draft that center we have so desperately needed than get our ***** handed to us in a 1st round exit. Think future.
In fact we should trade the entire team for 7th round picks then in 10 years after we build through the draft we should trade all of those players again and build through the draft again but it will be quicker because of all the assets we got the first time, man in 15 years we are going to be great it will be alot of fun you 'diehards' are pretty lucky.

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02-27-2013, 08:20 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Todd Simpson anyone?

Because let's be honest these supposed "die hards" that are freaking out over an overtime loss are doing nothing but clamoring for another young guns era.
Wash your mouth out with soap, good sir.

The young guns era is the darkest point of this teams history, and those clamoring for a tear down rebuild should use that as an example of such a tactic failing.

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02-27-2013, 09:17 PM
  #293
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To suggest never rebuilding or going with a youth movement ever again simply because it was tried once and failed is incredibly asinine and at best, epitomizes Saturday morning cartoon logic.

The reasons why the Flames first attempt at a youth movement failed, why the Islanders youth movement failed, why Columbus, Florida, Atlanta and so on failed, was because of inept and shoddy management. Can that happen in Calgary again? Absolutely, especially if the rumors of a meddling ownership are true.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted because as it stands, drafting and developing players is the only way to develop a winner. You can't build a team through free agency or through trades. Those two routes can only supplement a roster. Relying on either one of those methods is a recipe for failure. One would think management would realize the inherent contradiction and hypocrisy in their policy - a youth movement failed once before and thus, should be approached with extreme caution or just avoided altogether. Yet, the veteran heavy focus, with an emphasis on acquiring talent through free agency or through trades hasn't worked whatsoever. But that method should never be abandoned or reformatted, because, well, why not?

In any case, the debate over Calgary going through a youth movement is not a question of whether they should or should not initiate one, it's whether they should initiate one now when they still have assets to trade to speed up the process, or whether they should wait until they fall into one, when the core of this team moves and they have to start the whole process at the bottom rung. It's not a question of if, but rather, when.

And the reason for the well deserved pessimism to this teams position thus far rises out of three years of similar failures and four years previous to that of first round playoff exits. The team simply does not deserve the benefit of the doubt any longer. Every chance the team has had this season to go above .500, they've squandered. They've already played more than a quarter of the season; there simply isn't the time for another wait and see approach. The organization simply can't afford another 9th place finish. So the question is, do you want a 6 year or longer rebuild after Iginla walks in the off-season and Kipper retires to Finland or the chance for something shorter if they and other players are traded by the deadline or off-season?

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02-27-2013, 10:01 PM
  #294
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The Flames are rebuilding. You don't need to sell assets to rebuild. You just need to invest in the draft and keep the majority of your picks. The Flames are doing this while supplementing through free agency.

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02-27-2013, 11:55 PM
  #295
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The Flames are rebuilding. You don't need to sell assets to rebuild. You just need to invest in the draft and keep the majority of your picks. The Flames are doing this while supplementing through free agency.
Kinda like what Vancouver did post Bertuzzi if I remember correctly. But then again they had a younger core to build around.

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02-28-2013, 12:40 AM
  #296
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Thank Christ Calgary knows how to draft.
Right guys?

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02-28-2013, 01:21 AM
  #297
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Thank Christ Calgary knows how to draft.
Right guys?
Other than a questionable Jankowski pick, Feaster and co have been quite good at the Draft.

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02-28-2013, 01:32 AM
  #298
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Drafting, even for the best of teams, is still a gamble after the first five or 10 picks of the draft. Which is why rebuilding teams stockpile draft picks and focus on development. It increases their odds of getting the necessary talent to compete and build a winner. Instead of depending on a one first round pick on panning out, you hedge your bets with two or three, and in that way, don't waste a year if the pick ends up amounting to nothing.

And rebuilding does necessitate selling off assets. It's just a matter of intellectual honesty - if you're an older team with a poor prospect pool, you're not in the playoffs by the deadline and have no real chance at winning the cup, you sell. It's that simple. Look at Ottawa - after losing Heatley, they understood that they didn't have what it takes to win it all. Instead of blindly hoping for a miracle and stubbornly refusing to change, they accepted reality as it was. So, at the deadline, they moved assets like Vermette, Fisher, and Kuba for high picks. In the process, they managed to land their future franchise goalie in Lehner.

The problem is, the Flames will always be a short win streak away from a playoff spot. That's been the case for the last three years and has always been the excuse for why management avoided selling off assets. One would think they'd have the brains to realize after at least the second occurrence that maybe, just maybe, the core of this team simply doesn't have what it takes. And that's not a knock on Iginla or Kipper, rather, it's a marked condemnation against an organization that thinks you can build a core without a dynamic group of centres involved. The NHL simply doesn't work that way.

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02-28-2013, 01:43 AM
  #299
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To suggest never rebuilding or going with a youth movement ever again simply because it was tried once and failed is incredibly asinine and at best, epitomizes Saturday morning cartoon logic.

The reasons why the Flames first attempt at a youth movement failed, why the Islanders youth movement failed, why Columbus, Florida, Atlanta and so on failed, was because of inept and shoddy management. Can that happen in Calgary again? Absolutely, especially if the rumors of a meddling ownership are true.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted because as it stands, drafting and developing players is the only way to develop a winner. You can't build a team through free agency or through trades. Those two routes can only supplement a roster. Relying on either one of those methods is a recipe for failure. One would think management would realize the inherent contradiction and hypocrisy in their policy - a youth movement failed once before and thus, should be approached with extreme caution or just avoided altogether. Yet, the veteran heavy focus, with an emphasis on acquiring talent through free agency or through trades hasn't worked whatsoever. But that method should never be abandoned or reformatted, because, well, why not?

In any case, the debate over Calgary going through a youth movement is not a question of whether they should or should not initiate one, it's whether they should initiate one now when they still have assets to trade to speed up the process, or whether they should wait until they fall into one, when the core of this team moves and they have to start the whole process at the bottom rung. It's not a question of if, but rather, when.

And the reason for the well deserved pessimism to this teams position thus far rises out of three years of similar failures and four years previous to that of first round playoff exits. The team simply does not deserve the benefit of the doubt any longer. Every chance the team has had this season to go above .500, they've squandered. They've already played more than a quarter of the season; there simply isn't the time for another wait and see approach. The organization simply can't afford another 9th place finish. So the question is, do you want a 6 year or longer rebuild after Iginla walks in the off-season and Kipper retires to Finland or the chance for something shorter if they and other players are traded by the deadline or off-season?
I actually want to rebuild through the draft but I also want to trade for young proven talent as well. My point was calling this team a "non playoff" team 37.5% of the way through the season after an overtime loss is just moronic. Will we make it? Probably not but no body knows and losing in overtime doesn't really prove it one way or the other.

About the not ever wanting to go through a youth movement, its not hard to understand why some teams don't want to. There are as many success stories as there are failures and while the failures are almost 100% poor management and prospect development most of the time it takes years to tell if they are good or not who is to say we are good now especially prospect development over the last 10 years or so we have been brutal, and as long as Ward is on the Heat I doubt it gets much better.

While I support a rebuild (and a proper one) I don't think it is crazy to not want one because simply we have seen how brutal it is when it goes bad thank god we found Iggy and Kipper out of it, and not only that we have seen how long it can take to find talent in the draft even with high draft picks.

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02-28-2013, 01:45 AM
  #300
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Other than a questionable Jankowski pick, Feaster and co have been quite good at the Draft.
So whats the deal with Jankowski? Is it if he develops hes an all star and if he doesn't he's a bust? I guess thats how it is with all prospects ahah nvm but whats the deal behind picking him?

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