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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:55 PM
  #776
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
It's not about DD....It's about what you can buy for that same amount of money and filling needs!!! It's always about that in the end.

Let's assume that the Habs will buyout Kaberle...this is what Bergevin got:

************************************************** *******************

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) /
Travis Moen ($1.850m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Alexei Emelin ($2.000m) /

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $47,368,333; BONUSES: $2,485,000
CAP SPACE (15-man roster): $19,416,667

************************************************** ******************

With 19 millions left to play with.

And in a year which we might see a lot of good players available and with the cap going down. Players might be available below market value.

And some good players might be boughtout just to fit under the new cap.

In a year which we might have: Perry, Getzlaf, Iginla, Ribeiro, Morrow, Semin, Bouchard, Horton, Clowe, Gagne, Ryder, Penner, Weiss, Filpulla, Clarkson, Dupuis, Brunner, Roy, McDonald,...and many more available...

Money might be a good thing to have right now.

************************************************** ******************

With Plekanec - Glachenyuk - Eller as centre...Mtl got offensive and defensive talents, size, specials units are cover and MTL have 3 good center for less than 10 millions.

DD's performance should get him a 3M to 4M contract (in my opinion...can't ask more than that with the new cap and the players available)

But then you might ask....How much Clowe will get if available?
Will Clowe help this line-up more than DD would?

Putting another 3 to 4 millions dollars at the center when you already have Plekanec and Galchenyuk is slowly taking his place is.....bad bussiness.

Especially when their is some weakness on the wings and defense.
That 3-4 millions could help to get a big shutdown-D or a winger with scoring abilities.

I would put that money somewhere else!!
Absolutely. I agree 100%

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Old
02-27-2013, 05:12 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
With Plekanec - Glachenyuk - Eller as centre...Mtl got offensive and defensive talents, size, specials units are cover and MTL have 3 good center for less than 10 millions.

DD's performance should get him a 3M to 4M contract (in my opinion...can't ask more than that with the new cap and the players available)

But then you might ask....How much Clowe will get if available?
Will Clowe help this line-up more than DD would?

Putting another 3 to 4 millions dollars at the center when you already have Plekanec and Galchenyuk is slowly taking his place is.....bad bussiness.

Especially when their is some weakness on the wings and defense.
That 3-4 millions could help to get a big shutdown-D or a winger with scoring abilities.

I would put that money somewhere else!!
I think at the end of the day it will come down to what we want from our third line.

DD can put up 0.5ppg on the 3rd line with 2nd wave PP time like he did with in his rookie year. There's good value in that. Eller provides size and much better defence but we don't really know yet what his offensive potential is.

I'd still go with Eller, but getting DD on a one year deal for 2-2.5 million is also a decent option.

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Old
02-27-2013, 05:17 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I think at the end of the day it will come down to what we want from our third line.

DD can put up 0.5ppg on the 3rd line with 2nd wave PP time like he did with in his rookie year. There's good value in that. Eller provides size and much better defence but we don't really know yet what his offensive potential is.

I'd still go with Eller, but getting DD on a one year deal for 2-2.5 million is also a decent option.
It's a decent option for the habs....but not sure it's a decent one for DD.

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Old
02-27-2013, 05:21 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
It's a decent option for the habs....but not sure it's a decent one for DD.
He's an RFA, he's unlikely to get an offer sheet so his only options are take it or sit out.

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02-27-2013, 06:17 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
It's a decent option for the habs....but not sure it's a decent one for DD.
Yeah well... if he is looking for 4M$+, I'd be the first one to offer him a ride to his new team/city!

Assuming a 4 years, 10-12 M$ contract, Desharnais is a great asset: among other things, it would give our Habs precious cap manoeuvrability.

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02-27-2013, 06:27 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
...
I would put that money somewhere else!!
Thing is DD will be a 40-60 pts RFA center with great vision capable of playing with top players.

He has obvious flaws, but that also means you can get him for cheaper than what a regular player with that type of production would make.

This means that you can invest more in quality wingers while still having a center with top vision.

Obviously it all depends on what DD will want in the end. And what wingers are available on the market. But this is an option that is on the table.

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:28 PM
  #782
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Don't forget that Eller and Subban will have to be resigned next season as well.

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:29 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Yeah well... if he is looking for 4M$+, I'd be the first one to offer him a ride to his new team/city!

Assuming a 4 years, 10-12 M$ contract, Desharnais is a great asset: among other things, it would give our Habs precious cap manoeuvrability.
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see DD pull a Burrows.

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:08 PM
  #784
Milhouse40
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Thing is DD will be a 40-60 pts RFA center with great vision capable of playing with top players.

He has obvious flaws, but that also means you can get him for cheaper than what a regular player with that type of production would make.

This means that you can invest more in quality wingers while still having a center with top vision.

Obviously it all depends on what DD will want in the end. And what wingers are available on the market. But this is an option that is on the table.
But here's the thing....a top vision center is useless without good wingers, which we don't have a lot #fingerscrossed4Collberg

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:10 PM
  #785
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Don't forget that Eller and Subban will have to be resigned next season as well.
And per the other thread, Diaz as a UFA. That could be the most difficult decision. Streit-ish on another level again, perhaps.

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02-27-2013, 08:18 PM
  #786
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And per the other thread, Diaz as a UFA. That could be the most difficult decision. Streit-ish on another level again, perhaps.
His concussion could lead to a Pacioretty-esque discount.

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Old
02-27-2013, 09:47 PM
  #787
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see DD pull a Burrows.
Among all our soon to be RFA (with arbitration rights) players (July 2013 and 2014), I also consider Desharnais as the most likely to agree to a HOME discount contract.

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02-27-2013, 10:29 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Among all our soon to be RFA (with arbitration rights) players (July 2013 and 2014), I also consider Desharnais as the most likely to agree to a HOME discount contract.
Probably - but I think that he probably won't garner much interest elsewhere either, which would help.

I've really liked him these past few games. If we can sign him cheap, I say we do it.

We have enough talent to run three scoring lines next year.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:39 PM
  #789
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DD has been on fire with his faceoffs lately!

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:42 PM
  #790
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DD has been on fire with his faceoffs lately!
All our centers were over 50% today, easy target.

Desharnais isn't as bad on FOs as he's accused though, like every other C on this team, he's just inconsistent as hell. If there's any problem I have with him there is that he doesn't always recover as quickly as Plek does.

As long as his playmaking is like this though, does it matter? He's here to be great at one thing, and right now he's doing that job.

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:12 AM
  #791
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All our centers were over 50% today, easy target.

Desharnais isn't as bad on FOs as he's accused though, like every other C on this team, he's just inconsistent as hell. If there's any problem I have with him there is that he doesn't always recover as quickly as Plek does.

As long as his playmaking is like this though, does it matter? He's here to be great at one thing, and right now he's doing that job.
That's what kills me about his detractors. They argue things that simple aren't true. He had a slightly better % than Plekanec last year(close to 50%) while taking most of them in the offensive zone, which are tougher to win. Plus for the first month I remember him being at 40%, telling the French media he was going to be better. And he sure did. Somehow in the early going the talk was that he was too small to win them, when in fact he proved last season it wasn't an issue.

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02-28-2013, 07:17 AM
  #792
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Don't forget that Eller and Subban will have to be resigned next season as well.
Markov and Gionta's salary will be coming off the books. Gionta should be good as gone. If Markov stays it will have to be at a greatly reduced rate. By that time, Beaulieu and Tinordi will be ready. We definitely have tons of flexibility

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02-28-2013, 08:04 AM
  #793
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I just want to say I was hard on Desharnais at the start of the year but he's been awesome lately, seems like ever since him and Pacioretty have been separated from Cole they've been playing great.

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02-28-2013, 08:18 AM
  #794
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That's what kills me about his detractors. They argue things that simple aren't true. He had a slightly better % than Plekanec last year(close to 50%) while taking most of them in the offensive zone, which are tougher to win. Plus for the first month I remember him being at 40%, telling the French media he was going to be better. And he sure did. Somehow in the early going the talk was that he was too small to win them, when in fact he proved last season it wasn't an issue.
Statistics 101 rant:

I'm one of his detractors and let me tell you faceoffs are completely overrated on this board. They're very close to a crapshoot, almost every single player in the NHL is between 48% and 52%.

If a center goes 13/19 on the night, he is not "on fire", he got lucky, that's all.

This season, Desharnais is 147/303 in the faceoff circle, or 48.5%. You know what the 68% confidence interval is on that? It's 2.9%. That means that we only know with 68% certainty (which is even weaker than the 19 times out of 20 used by polling firms) that Desharnais' true skill level is between 45.6% and 51.4%, based on this season's sample size alone. But that's nearly every player in the NHL anyway. So basically, we don't know anything about DD's faceoff effectiveness, other than the fact he is approximately average.

Analogy, if you flip a coin 20 times (very nearly equivalent to faceoffs) and you get heads 13 times, it doesn't mean you have a coin that is "on fire".

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:11 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Statistics 101 rant:

I'm one of his detractors and let me tell you faceoffs are completely overrated on this board. They're very close to a crapshoot, almost every single player in the NHL is between 48% and 52%.

If a center goes 13/19 on the night, he is not "on fire", he got lucky, that's all.

This season, Desharnais is 147/303 in the faceoff circle, or 48.5%. You know what the 68% confidence interval is on that? It's 2.9%. That means that we only know with 68% certainty (which is even weaker than the 19 times out of 20 used by polling firms) that Desharnais' true skill level is between 45.6% and 51.4%, based on this season's sample size alone. But that's nearly every player in the NHL anyway. So basically, we don't know anything about DD's faceoff effectiveness, other than the fact he is approximately average.

Analogy, if you flip a coin 20 times (very nearly equivalent to faceoffs) and you get heads 13 times, it doesn't mean you have a coin that is "on fire".
You can say that about anything in hockey though. What's the point in even discussing stuff then?

The exact same thing could be said for goals, assists, and whatever else.

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02-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #796
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You can say that about anything in hockey though. What's the point in even discussing stuff then?

The exact same thing could be said for goals, assists, and whatever else.
You're completely incorrect.

There are huge differences in goal scoring ability. You have 40 goal scorers, 30 goal scorers, 20 goal scorers, 10 goal scorers, and each of these means something.

For faceoffs, almost every regular center is in the range 48%-52%, the dispersion due to noise (luck) is as large or larger as the dispersion due to skill. That's not the case for goals, assists, and "whatever else".

With that said, you shouldn't call someone a sniper for having scored 1 goal 2 games into the season, and you shouldn't bash DD for being in the range 45-50% for faceoffs 20 games into the season. It's not statistically significant.

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:08 PM
  #797
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david desharnais

Thanks for Gliding back in OT . Hope Therien Sits you next game. show some ****ing effort and skate back when it's 4 on 4 you bum!

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:09 PM
  #798
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Thanks for Gliding back in OT . Hope Therien Sits you next game. show some ****ing effort and skate back when it's 4 on 4 you bum!
i hope you notice there were 2 penguin defense behind him and montreal had 3 players back (subban, gorges, max pac) against 2 penguin players.

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #799
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I was thinking "what the hell is he doing?" When I saw him not putting any effort into backchecking... Reminds me a bit of Ovechkin, waiting back and hoping for a turnover.

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03-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #800
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Chill out man.

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