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Gomez vs Kessel trade - Which one was worse?

View Poll Results: Which trade was worse?
Gomez 181 72.40%
Kessel 69 27.60%
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Old
02-28-2013, 02:57 AM
  #26
Darth Joker
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The Leafs gained a high-value positive asset out of it.

They lost two high-value positive assets out of it, and a moderate value asset.

I'd call that -1.5


The Habs "gained" a negative value asset out of it, and Tom Pyatt for a bit.

They lost one high-vale asset out of it, and a moderate value asset.

I'd call that -2


I don't like saying it, but the Gomez trade is worse.

It's very close if Hamilton pans out as well as McDo did, though.

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02-28-2013, 03:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Btw, what makes our deal 100 times worse is we knew what we were giving up and did it. Leaf management prob felt it would be two top 15 picks not seguin and Hamilton. They prob wouldn't have done if had they known but we willing ****ed ourselves knowing the entire specs if the deal.
Pretty much this. Toronto played a game and lost badly. They got a top sniper in Kessel only for the team's makeup to be worse than expected, thus losing out on a potential franchise player and a top-pairing D-man. Montreal and New York knew exactly what each side was getting, which was what made the trade itself worse.

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02-28-2013, 03:47 AM
  #28
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Gomez is arguably the worst trade the Habs have ever made, yes you can make a case for it ranking above Roy.

Put into context, Burke may have overestimated what he had in Toronto but no one predicted the Leafs to freefall the way they did, while on the flip side everyone panned the Gomez trade immediately. Sure, his complete inability to do anything was unforeseen but that was a bad trade the instant it happened, whereas the Kessel deal only became bad in hindsight. Not to mention at the end of the day, Kessel is a dynamic sniper with tons of potential and one of the most lethal shots in the league. We ended up with nothing.

Gomez AINEC

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Old
02-28-2013, 03:58 AM
  #29
Mats86
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Originally Posted by Guess View Post
Hi guys,

I was checking out Kessel's stats this season after reading all the rage on the leafs boards about him, turns out he only has 3 goals!

So I had this discussion later with a friend about which trade was worse between the Gomez one and the Kessel trade (in hindsight of course). I'm of the opinion that the Gomez trade was worse, given how much he was making, but the leafs lost Seguin as well as another first rounder...

What do you think?
That is a good question. I voted Kessel trade worse because they gave up two players who both should be better than McDonough.

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:59 AM
  #30
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In terms of production, the Gomez trade was by far the worst of the two; however, we did manage to make the playoffs twice as well as the Eastern conference final with him/Gio/Cammy. What we lost, however, Higgins and McDonagh (arguably one of, if not, the Rangers most valuable Dman at the moment).

Kessel on the other hand has been delivering as expected with at least 30 goals each season with the Leafs, but the price they paid was far more than what we lost... Seguin aided in Boston's playoff and inevitable Stanley Cup championship and has become a strong offensive asset for them. Then there's Dougie Hamilton, which I am positive, will become a top Dman in the future. Kessel has been putting numbers on the board for the Leafs, but since his arrival they still have yet to make the playoffs.

So, if you look at the overall picture of how things turned out the Kessel trade was by far worst; however, he is an effective piece to their team currently. But, in terms of making an impact for the team in the long-run and fulfilling their expectations, the Gomez trade is worse as we essentially gave away McDonagh for someone we were forced to buyout this season.

I think it was mentioned by someone else early, but Leafs management probably did not think they would be giving away 2nd and 9th overall the next two seasons, while our management knew that we were giving away one of our premiere prospects.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:10 AM
  #31
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Kessel is still with them and a 30 goal
Scorer

Gomez is in San Jose and still terrible.

We lost big time.

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02-28-2013, 07:15 AM
  #32
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If Kessel leaves as a UFA next year then that trade is easily worse. With Gomez we still at least made the Eastern Conference finals, Toronto hasn't even made the ****ing playoffs with Kessel and they gave up 2 players who can both potentially be better than McDonagh.

Still early to say which trade is worse though because Kessel could still be traded for something of value and Gomez is gone.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:17 AM
  #33
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Well to me it's no contest, The Leafs gave by far the best assets and didn't make it to the playoffs once. I bet they blow it this year too. (Would you be surprised?)

Gomez at least was good for that playoffs run.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:18 AM
  #34
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Using Hamilton, Seguin and Knight as the assets traded is truly an ingenious ploy to bolster an argument. However, it is a fraudulent argument. The Laffs did not trade those players. They traded draft picks. In fact they made the trade prior to the season, so with no real knowledge how high/low those picks will be (as for the argument that you need to know your team (1) quite frankly you never know how the season will play out, that's why the play it and (2) just look to the Habs a month and a half ago where most people predicted them out of the playoffs and at the bottom of the ECF/League). At best the argument is that they traded the draft picks that could have led to Hamilton, Seguin and Knight.

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02-28-2013, 07:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
Using Hamilton, Seguin and Knight as the assets traded is truly an ingenious ploy to bolster an argument. However, it is a fraudulent argument. The Laffs did not trade those players. They traded draft picks. In fact they made the trade prior to the season, so with no real knowledge how high/low those picks will be (as for the argument that you need to know your team (1) quite frankly you never know how the season will play out, that's why the play it and (2) just look to the Habs a month and a half ago where most people predicted them out of the playoffs and at the bottom of the ECF/League). At best the argument is that they traded the draft picks that could have led to Hamilton, Seguin and Knight.
True, but I thought the point of this thread was: In INSIGHT, which trade turned out worse?

Without insight, that Habs trade isn't that terrible because there was no way to know Gomez would suck as bad as he did, and that McDonagh would become a top pairing dman so fast.

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02-28-2013, 07:23 AM
  #36
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Seguin & Hamilton >>>> McDonaugh.

Kessel has been waaaaaay better but that hasn't helped Toronto at all and Habs got the the Eastern final with Gomez and he was a main part of that team.

It's close, very close and I'l vote Kessel but I might change that depending if the Leafs trade him for something. If not, than it's even worse.

As for the arguement that the Leafs didn't trade those players but rather the picks, that's a false arguement imo. If Boston drafted 2 busts than the trade would have easily been won by Toronto and they would have taken the credit for fleecing the Bruins. Conversely, Boston picked 2 fantastic picks and the show is on the other foot. Boston did the most with their assets as did Toronto with theirs. Boston got the better deal, period.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:26 AM
  #37
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Seguin and Hamilton...
Gonna have to go with that one.

Seguin is better than Kessel, they added in Hamilton who'll be just as good as Mcdo if not more.
No question they got the worse deal.

Gomez was crap, but at least him and Pyatt were part of our team that went to the ECF.
The Leafs got 0 results with Kessel.

I know Habs fans are still bitter and pissed, but it's not even close IMO.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:35 AM
  #38
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Seguin and Hamilton > McDonaugh

but at the same time, Kessel >>>>>>>>> Gomez

even if he wasnt worth so much, he's still a relevant player and Gomez wasn't

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02-28-2013, 07:37 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Seguin and Hamilton...
Gonna have to go with that one.

Seguin is better than Kessel, they added in Hamilton who'll be just as good as Mcdo if not more.
No question they got the worse deal.

Gomez was crap, but at least him and Pyatt were part of our team that went to the ECF.
The Leafs got 0 results with Kessel.

I know Habs fans are still bitter and pissed, but it's not even close IMO.
This has little to do with anything IMO. I think people are trying to hard to look for this deal not being as bad as the leafs. It's worse, it's just fact. You don't need to be a pessimist to know it.

Basically:

Kessel is approx equal to seguin, maybe a little more or a little less. They also gave up hamilton and knight.

Mcdonagh is significantly better than Gomez. We also gave up Higgins and valentenko. We did however also get Tom Pyatt, who isn't with the habs anymore either.

It's just bad and i'd rather we stop talking about it and hope we don't make same mistake again.

The bold is just an example of trying to feel better about the deal. If we trade pacioretty for Ben eager and manage to reach 2nd round despite it, is it a good deal? Does it change the reality? Not really.

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02-28-2013, 07:39 AM
  #40
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Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin is the worst trade since Patrick Roy.

Hamilton will be a top10 D. And Seguin is better than Kessel already.

Mcdonagh is a good dman. But wont become a top10. Maybe top 40

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02-28-2013, 07:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin is the worst trade since Patrick Roy.

Hamilton will be a top10 D. And Seguin is better than Kessel already.

Mcdonagh is a good dman. But wont become a top10. Maybe top 40
I don't think Hamilton will be better than mcdonagh. Mcdonagh's defensive game is excellent and he's got that two-way game, not much offense but decent skills.

Also, as for Seguin>Kessel. On bruins board they ask if Seguin is the next kessel. Seguin dives more, is less talented, sometimes avoids physical areas, etc... Mind you, they are both still young and can improve. I like both players actually but there's really nothing really to make Seguin better than Kessel. Kessel has better shot, skating, etc... Prob less creativity though.

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02-28-2013, 08:24 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
This has little to do with anything IMO. I think people are trying to hard to look for this deal not being as bad as the leafs. It's worse, it's just fact. You don't need to be a pessimist to know it.

Basically:

Kessel is approx equal to seguin, maybe a little more or a little less. They also gave up hamilton and knight.

Mcdonagh is significantly better than Gomez. We also gave up Higgins and valentenko. We did however also get Tom Pyatt, who isn't with the habs anymore either.

It's just bad and i'd rather we stop talking about it and hope we don't make same mistake again.

The bold is just an example of trying to feel better about the deal. If we trade pacioretty for Ben eager and manage to reach 2nd round despite it, is it a good deal? Does it change the reality? Not really.
You don't make much sense quite frankly.
Not trying to make me feel better, both trades are some of the worst in history. Not sure what it changes of it's the 3rd or 4th worst. Both are garbage.

On the subject though. I disagree that Kessel approx Seguin.
Tyler is a much better player IMO. But even if they are exactly equal, they also gave up Hamilton and Knight. So at the very least, the trades are equally bad.
I think the Kessel one is worst because I feel Seguin is better than Kessel, so throw in the other two guys and it really makes it worse.

My comment about how the teams performed is just an extra. Both trades are bad, but at least we still enjoyed some form of success. Doesn't change anything to the actual trades.

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02-28-2013, 08:27 AM
  #43
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if you look at what teams gave.
Seguin + Hamilton vs McDonaugh
worst. Kessel Trade

if you look at what teams got.
Kessel vs Gomez
worst. Gomez Trade

Team Success
8th and final conference vs 15th
6th vs 10th
15th vs 13th
Worst Kessel Trade

I would do the Gomez trade before the Kessel trade

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02-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #44
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Their fired GM is better than our 2 fired GM's

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02-28-2013, 08:52 AM
  #45
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You don't make much sense quite frankly.
Not trying to make me feel better, both trades are some of the worst in history. Not sure what it changes of it's the 3rd or 4th worst. Both are garbage.

On the subject though. I disagree that Kessel approx Seguin.
Tyler is a much better player IMO. But even if they are exactly equal, they also gave up Hamilton and Knight. So at the very least, the trades are equally bad.
I think the Kessel one is worst because I feel Seguin is better than Kessel, so throw in the other two guys and it really makes it worse.

My comment about how the teams performed is just an extra. Both trades are bad, but at least we still enjoyed some form of success. Doesn't change anything to the actual trades.
How is seguin better than Kessel? Kessel hit 30+ goals several times and hit PPG last year. 7th in goals, 6th in points last year. What do you expect from Seguin? 4th in goals and 4th in points? There's only 4 guys in the NHL who hit 35+ goals and PPG. Stamkos, Malkin, Kessel and Neal. So yes, at the very least, approx isn't a bad thing to say. They are both offensive minded players who aren't physical. I'll admit seguin is a little more well rounded but not enough to suggest he's actually that much better. I stick to approx.

I don't get it, you feel the Kessel one is worst because Seguin is better than Kessel? Hmm, but Gomez is better than Mcdonagh? I get your point that they gave hamilton and company away too but we gave Mcdonagh, higgins and valentenko away and got cap problems and a buyout.

At the end of the day we can say whatever we like about leafs giving more, but they also got more. The ratio between quality of assets given:quality of assets recieved is dramatically better for the leafs than the habs. At the worst, it's a 1:2 ratio. For the habs it's like 1:10.

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02-28-2013, 08:55 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Btw, what makes our deal 100 times worse is we knew what we were giving up and did it. Leaf management prob felt it would be two top 15 picks not seguin and Hamilton. They prob wouldn't have done if had they known but we willing ****ed ourselves knowing the entire specs if the deal.
On the other hand, the Leafs botched what should've been a longer rebuild in hopes of skipping ahead and getting back into the playoff picture quickly. This year might be the first year they actually do get into the playoffs and it might also be the last year of Kessel in Toronto. Pretty terrible results from that trade.

In terms of what each team was trying to achieve, the Habs got way more out of the Gomez deal. He was very good in the second half of his first season with us as well as in the playoffs.

That said... The Gomez trade is worse. Probably the worst trade since Millbury.

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02-28-2013, 08:55 AM
  #47
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Gomez by far...
Kessel is a pretty good players.

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02-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #48
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On the other hand, the Leafs botched what should've been a longer rebuild in hopes of skipping ahead and getting back into the playoff picture quickly. This year might be the first year they actually do get into the playoffs and it might also be the last year of Kessel in Toronto. Pretty terrible results from that trade.

In terms of what each team was trying to achieve, the Habs got way more out of the Gomez deal. He was very good in the second half of his first season with us as well as in the playoffs.

That said... The Gomez trade is worse. Probably the worst trade since Millbury.
Tbh, I can see what the leafs wanted. They wanted someone to build around. I mean, if all habs had were 2nd/3rd line players you'd be like forget quantity, lets get some quality right? You don't hear us saying let's trade pacioretty for 2 3rd liners right? It's same thing, they needed some top talent after losing Sundin but they overestimated rest of their lineup. They still haven't recovered from losing a top notch center like Sundin.

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:02 AM
  #49
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Anyway the trade was Kessel for 2 x 1st and a 2nd.

It turns out to be Seguin and Hamilton but they acquired their best player throught a trade for three prospecfts that could bust.

The Gomez deal is easily the worst one.

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02-28-2013, 09:04 AM
  #50
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Easily the Gomez trade.

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