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02-27-2013, 11:15 PM
  #476
TwInS1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
THE FACT IS I have never said, nor do I want Granlund to "fail". Search everyone of my posts and you will not find one where I say I want him to fail.

I just can't believe that so many of you keep making excuses for the kid. (It's yeo's fault, its the other linemates fault, its the system's fault, etc.) The fact is the kid is NOT producing like so many of you were adament he would. Apparently my pointing out that he is not the superstar thus far that everyone guaranteed makes me a "hater", when I'm really just being realistic.

All the other Wild players seemed to get ripped on when they play poorly, but if someone dares point out Granlund's poor play, repeated offsides, etc. it is treated like you mother was slapped in the face. He may be your Finnish Baby Jesus, but he still is just as open for criticism as Heatley, Koivu, Cullen, etc.

The reality at this point in his career is that Granlund was over-hyped and over-rated prior to coming to the NHL about how good he would be in the NHL. And contrary to what some posters said, I actually DID watch Granlund play quite a bit before he joined the Wild, and based on what I saw, I felt he would struggle in the NHL. Being small, weak, and not fast is NOT a good combination for the NHL. Sure it worked for him in Finland, but that is a different league and different size rinks.

I WANT THE KID TO SUCCEED, because he plays for the Wild. But at this point, I feel the best thing for him is to play in he AHL. He needs to get more time playing top minutes in the AHL, where he can hopefully get better acclimated to the NHL style. But my prediction is sadly that with his skill set, Granlund will to continue to struggle in North America unless he spends some significant time in the AHL first.

Everyone is saying that we expected too much of him too soon and we are going to have to be patient and wait possibly a couple of years maybe even 2-3 years to wait for him to figure out his game in the NHL and become the player we thought he would be from the get go.

Your the one needlessly ripping him, nitpicking, pointing out every mistake possible and not giving him credit when he does play a decent game...while exaggerating and going out of your way to point out any small thing he does wrong if he does something wrong.

If you actually read the majority of us agree that he was overhyped, but the majority of us also agree that he still will become a good player--he is too talented, with too large of a body of work, and too driven of a player not too succeed.


What would the AHL do for him? He dominated the AHL when it was stronger competition than it is now. DOMINATED. While, battling through injuries and thus conditioning/chemistry problems + adjusted to a smaller rink he scored a point a game. HE DOMINATED. He isn't going to gain anything down there.

Granlund, whether you agree or not, is slowly, but surely getting better, improving and figuring out how to succeed at this level. Watch the game without looking to find any small mistake he makes...you will notice he makes a lot of good plays too.

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02-28-2013, 12:22 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Everyone is saying that we expected too much of him too soon and we are going to have to be patient and wait possibly a couple of years maybe even 2-3 years to wait for him to figure out his game in the NHL and become the player we thought he would be from the get go.

Your the one needlessly ripping him, nitpicking, pointing out every mistake possible and not giving him credit when he does play a decent game...while exaggerating and going out of your way to point out any small thing he does wrong if he does something wrong.

If you actually read the majority of us agree that he was overhyped, but the majority of us also agree that he still will become a good player--he is too talented, with too large of a body of work, and too driven of a player not too succeed.


What would the AHL do for him? He dominated the AHL when it was stronger competition than it is now. DOMINATED. While, battling through injuries and thus conditioning/chemistry problems + adjusted to a smaller rink he scored a point a game. HE DOMINATED. He isn't going to gain anything down there.

Granlund, whether you agree or not, is slowly, but surely getting better, improving and figuring out how to succeed at this level. Watch the game without looking to find any small mistake he makes...you will notice he makes a lot of good plays too.
I agree with everything besides this.

I mean, while I agree he is better to be in the NHL than the AHL, I still think it is a point that is worth discussing and still is a legitimate debate to have.

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02-28-2013, 02:17 AM
  #478
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The games I saw when he was in Houston he was never dominant. That's not really his style of play though, it seemed like he just silently puts up points.

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02-28-2013, 04:42 AM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
What would the AHL do for him? He dominated the AHL when it was stronger competition than it is now. DOMINATED. While, battling through injuries and thus conditioning/chemistry problems + adjusted to a smaller rink he scored a point a game. HE DOMINATED. He isn't going to gain anything down there.
I remember that EXACT same argument with Sheppard when there was a discussion on the Wild.com board a few years back in regard to sending him back to Cape Breton vs. sticking with the Wild club.
The AHL would give Granlund more ice time and build back the confidence. Granted he seems to be a mentally tough kid, i.e. typical Finn. Bouncing him all over the depth chart and scratching him I don't believe is the best way to maximize his development. I think right now Houston would be best. He's looked better no doubt as of late. I'd still rather we send him down. Let him dominate. I'd wager Coach Torchetti can still show him a thing or two on becoming a better hockey player.

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02-28-2013, 08:16 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I agree with everything besides this.

I mean, while I agree he is better to be in the NHL than the AHL, I still think it is a point that is worth discussing and still is a legitimate debate to have.
I just think the way to improve is here in the NHL. Maybe I exaggerated a bit with the word dominate , but he did out up a point per game, while adjusting and batting through injuries in a non watered down AHL. I don't think Granlund is the player that's going to wow you, but instead I think he's going to silently put up points.


In a shortened season leave him here as long as he's still progressing. (And he is)

He's got nothing to learn in the AHL...other than the regain the confidence argument.
However, what if he goes down and because of a lack of confidence doesn't do
Well in the AHL? What then..?

Keep him here. For a 20 year old, undersized rookie...he's doing fine.

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02-28-2013, 08:48 AM
  #481
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Sheppard's situation was not Granlund's situation. Not comparable at all. Different players. Different leagues.

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02-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Kellyr View Post
If you are the one holding the puck you can only do so much positionally. Most of the time you can only outskate or outmuscle your opponent. Kane is ridiculous with his skates and can get away from people, Granlund cannot. He definately needs to bulk up because he is not fast enough to do what Kane does.
Yeah, but if you get a chance to watch a Hawks game, watch Kane real close...he does have speed, but he rarely turns it on...I don't want to say that he "floats", but he just has a knack for finding the open ice and putting himself in a position to create something. He's a very efficient player. I think Granlund, if put at wing, could do the same thing.

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02-28-2013, 09:48 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
I remember that EXACT same argument with Sheppard when there was a discussion on the Wild.com board a few years back in regard to sending him back to Cape Breton vs. sticking with the Wild club.
The AHL would give Granlund more ice time and build back the confidence. Granted he seems to be a mentally tough kid, i.e. typical Finn. Bouncing him all over the depth chart and scratching him I don't believe is the best way to maximize his development. I think right now Houston would be best. He's looked better no doubt as of late. I'd still rather we send him down. Let him dominate. I'd wager Coach Torchetti can still show him a thing or two on becoming a better hockey player.
There is a pretty big difference in a kid being to good for the CHL and not good enough for the NHL

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02-28-2013, 10:20 AM
  #484
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Shep's second season though should have been in Houston.

Right now we're seeing Granlund adapting to the NHL by dumping the puck more and laying more hits as well as staying high to prevent getting beat. Which is fine if you want him as a third line center.

Maybe I'm wrong, we'll have a better idea after this weekend. But if he's not generating offense these next few games he ought to be down in Houston.

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02-28-2013, 10:24 AM
  #485
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I agree. The difference between the Shep and Granlund is we can recall Granlund. I'm not saying we have to banish him to Houston for the year. Send him down for now. Let him get solid top line minutes and stability. I agree the comparison I used is an apples oranges situation. My bad. I'm not lobbying hard to demote him. If Yeo gives him top six minutes and he does well, cool. I want to watch him play here as much as everyone else. But if Yeo keeps putting him on 4th line, then send him down. Another difference between Granlund and The Bust I did not consider at the time of my post. Granlund may get out muscled, but at least he does not suffer from deer in the headlights syndrome. So I retract the comparison between those two.

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02-28-2013, 10:27 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Yeah, but if you get a chance to watch a Hawks game, watch Kane real close...he does have speed, but he rarely turns it on...I don't want to say that he "floats", but he just has a knack for finding the open ice and putting himself in a position to create something. He's a very efficient player. I think Granlund, if put at wing, could do the same thing.

Yeah Kane is more about finding open space, changing speeds, getting on his edges, and using good body control to set himself up to be able to pull all the fancy moves/plays he does.


Granlund needs to work on moving laterally better more than anything. Getting on his edges and being able to be shifty, etc., etc.

If you've ever played hockey you'll know what I'm talking about.

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02-28-2013, 10:29 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
I agree. The difference between the Shep and Granlund is we can recall Granlund. I'm not saying we have to banish him to Houston for the year. Send him down for now. Let him get solid top line minutes and stability. I agree the comparison I used is an apples oranges situation. My bad. I'm not lobbying hard to demote him. If Yeo gives him top six minutes and he does well, cool. I want to watch him play here as much as everyone else. But if Yeo keeps putting him on 4th line, then send him down. Another difference between Granlund and The Bust I did not consider at the time of my post. Granlund may get out muscled, but at least he does not suffer from deer in the headlights syndrome. So I retract the comparison between those two.

My opinion is keep him here the rest of this year...

Let him get a full season of working out and then a full training camp with the big boys.

If the coaching staff doesn't think he's ready then or what not. Start him at Houston next year.

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02-28-2013, 10:46 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Yeah Kane is more about finding open space, changing speeds, getting on his edges, and using good body control to set himself up to be able to pull all the fancy moves/plays he does.


Granlund needs to work on moving laterally better more than anything. Getting on his edges and being able to be shifty, etc., etc.

If you've ever played hockey you'll know what I'm talking about.
I've read from a finnish article that Granlund began practising his skating professionally as he came to HIFK, as a 17-year old. So he's improved that part a lot since then and with the right coaching he can still become a lot better.

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02-28-2013, 11:01 AM
  #489
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I've read from a finnish article that Granlund began practising his skating professionally as he came to HIFK, as a 17-year old. So he's improved that part a lot since then and with the right coaching he can still become a lot better.

Oh, I totally agree. He's got all the tools above the shoulders and in his hands. He just needs to use his edges better. Like when you see him do those escape or spin moves along the half wall...he's not getting much depth away from the guy. His feet stop and he's basically just turning around so it doesn't create as much seperation or tie as he is used too. Which, is the exact reason he's struggling a little bit because he doesn't have the time and space he is used too getting.

But I am 100% confident that a player of Granlund's work ethic/caliber/ability/talent will be able to be very very successful in this league.

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02-28-2013, 12:13 PM
  #490
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I will say for once I appreciate the actual logic behind the last 12 posts or so..seems we have some intelligent posters around these parts after all!

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02-28-2013, 12:34 PM
  #491
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Every game i seem to make up my mind about NHL/Houston, i'm going to stick with GMCF if he felt Ganlund would be better in AHL he would have send him there.

We have to keep in mind that while Yeo is the head coach, FGMCF runs the show, if he tells Yeo that MiG is houston bound he's going there.

Obviously FGMCF feels that MiG can benefit from being here or he would have send him down already.

This isn't the same as Shep, Shep should have been send down but Riser failed 3 years in a row to do that, i don't think GMCF will make that mistake


Key:

FGMCF = ****ing General Manager Chuck Fletcher

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02-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #492
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Riser stuck Sheppard and Gillies in the NHL too early because, at that point, he had already been blowing it for YEARS on prospects. The farm was ALREADY empty. And he knew it.

So, he takes his two most visible prospects, dumps them on the team, and tries to cover-up the huge void below them. Look over here Wild fans! Look at these two promising forwards making the NHL! Because they have so much potential!

Sheppard and Gillies on the Wild were Riser's Hail Mary. If they magically worked out and became roster players, he would have held on for a few more seasons. But it didn't work out. The cover-up failed. And everybody found out who empty the prospect cellar was.

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02-28-2013, 01:48 PM
  #493
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Fletcher's situation is the opposite. Granlund can go where will best develop.

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02-28-2013, 01:50 PM
  #494
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Man, looking back at Riser's time, it's shocking how long tape-jobs and cover-ups went on to make the Wild seem more competitive and stable than they really were. Blowing picks. Trading away others for common roster players.

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02-28-2013, 03:28 PM
  #495
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3rd line tonight! hat-trick

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02-28-2013, 05:29 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by keppel146 View Post
3rd line tonight! hat-trick
Granlund has been pretty much what I have assumed he would be in his first season.

I sincerely hope he can help us win those games and go to playoffs.
That is all that matters.

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02-28-2013, 05:49 PM
  #497
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3rd line? Movin' on up!

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02-28-2013, 05:57 PM
  #498
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would you rather have granny playing 8-10mins a game with minimal game situations you would want him to learn? or have him go back to houston playing 20+mins a game in all situations with good young rookies and dominating? thus giving him more confidence...

its not like if we send granlund down hes gonna suddenly forget everything hes learned, he'll still know exactly what he needs to work on to make it in the bigger league. Plenty of good players have been up and down and still figure our their game, i doubt granny is any different.

quick edit: being down in the AHL gives him more time to bulk up with the sometimes long stretches without games.

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02-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #499
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I follow Granlund and this forum pretty often.

Love to opinions: negative and positive.
The conversation is the main thing I really like to have here so we need both negative and positive. I personally woud like Granlund to go Houston if the option is playing only 4th line minutes.
But that combo playing 4th-line and 1pp is pretty rare!
Actually there is stil a one good comparisation! Nail Yakupov. He has played(correct if i am wrong) in 4th line and in pp1 in Oilers.

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02-28-2013, 06:26 PM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
I just think the way to improve is here in the NHL. Maybe I exaggerated a bit with the word dominate , but he did out up a point per game, while adjusting and batting through injuries in a non watered down AHL. I don't think Granlund is the player that's going to wow you, but instead I think he's going to silently put up points.


In a shortened season leave him here as long as he's still progressing. (And he is)

He's got nothing to learn in the AHL...other than the regain the confidence argument.
However, what if he goes down and because of a lack of confidence doesn't do
Well in the AHL? What then..?

Keep him here. For a 20 year old, undersized rookie...he's doing fine.
Well, the reason I responded was because the intent of the post I quoted was trying to bring to light that any doom-and-gloom posts about Granlund are just posts looking attention, and I agree with that.

But the NHL/AHL debate is a legitimate argument to have and will not hold it against anyone who is on either side of the argument.

If someone complained that Granlund is going to fail, and looks like a bust, I would say, get lost because they obviously have not seen him play and watch him improve. If someone complained that he should be in the AHL rather than the NHL, I would actually take the time to read the argument and respond accordingly.

That is my only point.

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