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When did Datsyuk get demoted to the 4th line?

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
If he were better than "meh" defensively, he'd have had the sense to pick up Kopitar when Emmerton was trapped against the boards by Ericsson falling over.
Please.

You know, Tootoo has a job out there. He's got to be 100 percent aware of where his defenseman is and make sure he's not sneaking in. It's not easy, even for a winger with responsibilities, to do your job and get over there and do the other guys jobs too.

And Tootoo, by the way, is the right winger.
That entire play developed on the leftwing boards. If anyone should have come down to save the day, it was Miller -- who has sucked hard this year.

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02-28-2013, 11:45 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
To be fair, part of that might be from having their minutes limited and their spots picked a bit. I remember people pushing for Eaves to get top6 time back before the concussion, expecting him to keep up his 20% shooting percentage.

With Tatar, and all rookies, I think we forget how sheltered a lot of rookies are. Looking back, Datsyuk averaged a bit over 13.39 minutes a night as a rookie. Franzen was at a little over 12. Flip was at around 11 minutes a night. Z was a bit of an outlier getting 16 minutes a night. Granted, those minutes could come on a different line for Tatar, but his actual IT is pretty in line with what have given rookies in the past.
Don't forget that Datsyuk played on a team with 90 hall of fame players in his rookie year.

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02-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
To be fair, part of that might be from having their minutes limited and their spots picked a bit. I remember people pushing for Eaves to get top6 time back before the concussion, expecting him to keep up his 20% shooting percentage.

With Tatar, and all rookies, I think we forget how sheltered a lot of rookies are. Looking back, Datsyuk averaged a bit over 13.39 minutes a night as a rookie. Franzen was at a little over 12. Flip was at around 11 minutes a night. Z was a bit of an outlier getting 16 minutes a night. Granted, those minutes could come on a different line for Tatar, but his actual IT is pretty in line with what have given rookies in the past.
IMO, anyone defending the Datsyuk-Cleary-Abs line advocating for a team that loses.

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02-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SortaExtremist View Post
Don't forget that Datsyuk played on a team with 90 hall of fame players in his rookie year.
The team wasn't all that different for Z's rookie year, and he was over 16. I think the depth helped ensure Datsyuk had better linemates in his rookie year, but I'm not sure it negatively impacted his TOI. I think it's just the way the Wings try to do things, for better or worse.

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02-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
I get the argument that Gator and Cleary make space for Datsyuk, but if that's what we're aiming for why not just slot Tootoo next to Dats?
He forechecks much better than both Abby and Cleary combined, he can hit like a freight train (makes D-men think twice), and is faster than both Cleary and Abs.
IMO He'd be much more effective at opening space for Pav.
I'd like to see them try it, even just for a couple periods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure why Tootoo doesn't get more icetime in general. He doesn't seem to be bad defensively, and he skates really well - something that is still holding Cleary back.
I did not think about it, but it seems as a very good idea to me.
And I agree, Tootoo skates faster (10times faster than Cleary) hits harder than both.

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02-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #31
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At 2001-02 playoffs:

Shanahan - Fedorov - Yzerman
Devereaux - Datsyuk - Hull
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Robitaille - Larionov - Holmström
(Williams)

Fedorov 22:19
Yzerman 21:19
Shanahan 19:06
---------------
Hull 17:53 (Hull had extra 3 min from PP and extra 2 from PK that made a biggest difference in his linemates. Didn't remeber he was that big contributor at short-handed)
Draper 17:00
Maltby 16:33
-------------
Larionov 13:57
McCarty 13:33
Robitaille 13:16
-------------
Holmström 11:30
Devereaux 10:57
Datsyuk 10:40
----------------
Williams 6:12

Those ice-times are a bit inflated because of long overtime games, but still, it looks like Datsyuk was a 2nd liner, with 4th line minutes.

Lidström - Olausson
Fischer - Chelios
Duchesne - Dandenault

Lidström 31:10
Chelios 26:21
------------
Olausson 19:58
Fischer 19:41
-------------
Duchesne 13:36
Dandenault 13:29


Last edited by Henkka: 02-28-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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02-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #32
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It's a privilege to play with Dan Cleary. Just ask Mike Babcock.

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02-28-2013, 12:10 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
The team wasn't all that different for Z's rookie year, and he was over 16. I think the depth helped ensure Datsyuk had better linemates in his rookie year, but I'm not sure it negatively impacted his TOI. I think it's just the way the Wings try to do things, for better or worse.
Are you kidding, W98?
The 02-03 team had Fedorov, Shanahan, Hull, Datsyuk, Robitaille, Larionov.

it's grind liners were Maltby-Draper-McCarty -- A long, long, long away from Miller-Emmerton-Tootoo.

It's great that Datsyuk has helped Abdelkader stop posting minuses every game. But we need Datsyuk to be a threat every shift. The more dangerous he is, the better our team.

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02-28-2013, 12:12 PM
  #34
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Here are Abdelkaders' stats going back to March 21 last year.

34 Games
0 Goals
1 Assist
-14


There is no justification for this.

This is nearly as absurd as Lashoff on the first pairing.

I figure coach Babcock has cost this team at least four points. At least.

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02-28-2013, 12:16 PM
  #35
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If you think Abdelkader is a top six forward even in a complimentary role, I have a bridge to sell you.

In SPACE.

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02-28-2013, 12:18 PM
  #36
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Cleary's stats are brutal as well.
Since March 14.

35 Games
6 Goals
3 Assists
-12


In other words, these are plugs.

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02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Cleary's stats are brutal as well.
Since March 14.

35 Games
6 Goals
3 Assists
-12


In other words, these are plugs.
mod

There is no scenario where either of those players should end up being centered by Datsyuk.

Babcock is either a genius or is trying to get fired. There are just so many other potential forward combinations where you could at least argue it makes some sense.


Last edited by Winger98: 02-28-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Here are Abdelkaders' stats going back to March 21 last year.

34 Games
0 Goals
1 Assist
-14


There is no justification for this.

This is nearly as absurd as Lashoff on the first pairing.

I figure coach Babcock has cost this team at least four points. At least.
Wow. Didn't realize it's that brutal.

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02-28-2013, 01:03 PM
  #39
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BUT. TIME. SPACE. BIG BODIES. BABCOCK AND HOLLAND KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. ARMCHAIR COACHES.

Okay, enough of the excuses. At this point the stats speak for themselves.

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02-28-2013, 01:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
I know, it drives me up the wall that Tootoo only gets less than 10min/game. He and Tatar have a Helm-like effect on the team.
Just out of curiousity, anybody know what Tootoo played per game in NSH when he was in the lineup? I wonder if he knew that he'd be getting this amount of ice time before he signed?

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02-28-2013, 01:32 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBauerly97 View Post
Just out of curiousity, anybody know what Tootoo played per game in NSH when he was in the lineup? I wonder if he knew that he'd be getting this amount of ice time before he signed?
Over 13 minutes last year. He hasn't been below 10 minutes for at least three seasons.

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02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
BUT. TIME. SPACE. BIG BODIES. BABCOCK AND HOLLAND KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. ARMCHAIR COACHES.

Okay, enough of the excuses. At this point the stats speak for themselves.
There was a thread on the main page a couple of weeks ago wonder which coaches people had on the Adams Trophy list. I think everyone had Babcock in the top 3 or 5.

But he can't fool us! We know better than him, that's for sure!

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02-28-2013, 01:41 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure why Tootoo doesn't get more icetime in general. He doesn't seem to be bad defensively, and he skates really well - something that is still holding Cleary back.
Tootoo has good speed, and he's a fine skater when he's all alone, or lining someone up. But he's one of the worst skaters on the team as far as balance, falling down, tripping over himself, struggling in traffic. I'm for Tootoo getting more IT, I like his game in general, but his skating is.... wobbly.

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02-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Tootoo has good speed, and he's a fine skater when he's all alone, or lining someone up. But he's one of the worst skaters on the team as far as balance, falling down, tripping over himself, struggling in traffic. I'm for Tootoo getting more IT, I like his game in general, but his skating is.... wobbly.
fair enough. It is more accurate to say he has good speed.

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02-28-2013, 01:51 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Babcock is either a genius or is trying to get fired. There are just so many other potential forward combinations where you could at least argue it makes some sense.
What if they are tanking?

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02-28-2013, 01:54 PM
  #46
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What if they are tanking?
They're not doing that very well either!

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02-28-2013, 01:55 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
There was a thread on the main page a couple of weeks ago wonder which coaches people had on the Adams Trophy list. I think everyone had Babcock in the top 3 or 5.

But he can't fool us! We know better than him, that's for sure!
Babcock wasn't even really mentioned in that thread nor should he have been... your excuses are getting pretty weak.

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02-28-2013, 01:55 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
There was a thread on the main page a couple of weeks ago wonder which coaches people had on the Adams Trophy list. I think everyone had Babcock in the top 3 or 5.

But he can't fool us! We know better than him, that's for sure!
Using a list from posters on the main boards? How many of those people have any clue about the moves Babcock has made this year? Most of those same people mocked and ridiculed Bruce boudreau over the last few years now they are hugging his nuts.

I like Babs, I think he is a top of the line coach. But he has some weird tendencies and is not above second guessing.

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02-28-2013, 01:56 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
There was a thread on the main page a couple of weeks ago wonder which coaches people had on the Adams Trophy list. I think everyone had Babcock in the top 3 or 5.

But he can't fool us! We know better than him, that's for sure!

Just look at the stats for Cleary and Abdelkader going back to last year that The Fading Captain posted and tell me how you justify them playing on Datsyuk's wing together. Secondly, Get off babcock's nuts. Thirdly, The guy is a great coach, and he obviously knows more than us but that doesn't make him right all the time. You and your smartass comments.

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02-28-2013, 01:58 PM
  #50
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They're not doing that very well either!
We are only 6 points away of a TOP3 pick...

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