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wash / philly proposal

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Old
07-17-2006, 11:18 PM
  #26
phlacheesesteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
I love Philly fans - 34 points in a rookie year and he's untouchable, classic...
it wasnt teh fans that initially claimed that he is.... it was managment that said we arent trading away youth. yet threadafter thread is started with

to (posters fav team here): gagne/pitkanen/richards/carter

to philly: jay mcclement

u know what i mean...

its simply retarded

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Old
07-17-2006, 11:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Flash is expected to be a core player? Have you been keeping up lately? Getting Zednik about closed Fleischmann's roster chances for this season. I don't think he is considered a core player any longer.
Have you? Zednik is a rental - just like Friesen last year...

Flash had 63 pts in 57 games in the AHL - 32 more pts in 20 playoff games - yeah, he's no longer in the plans...I say we let him rot in the AHL...

Jeez, even our own fans don't know what's going on...sorry Philly fans

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Old
07-17-2006, 11:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
Overpayment on the par of the Caps in that one...

I love Philly fans - 34 points in a rookie year and he's untouchable, classic...
I love people who look at the number of points a player puts up and uses that to judge him as a player. Mike Richards does oh so much more then put points on the board and his value is extremely high. Every team in the league would love to have a guy like Mike Richards regardless of how many points he scores. When he's putting up 60-70 points a year, he'll be one of the most valuable players in the game because of what he does in every facet of the game.

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Old
07-17-2006, 11:21 PM
  #29
dinoflint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hfphillystyle View Post
it wasnt teh fans that initially claimed that he is.... it was managment that said we arent trading away youth. yet threadafter thread is started with

to (posters fav team here): gagne/pitkanen/richards/carter

to philly: jay mcclement

u know what i mean...

its simply retarded
Point taken - we have a few with AO, too...any even trade ends up with, well we're not going to trade <insert nice prospect here> until you ante up AO, Backstrom, or Semin.

In all seriousness, Richards for Fleischman may be a consideration if Fleischman continues from his AHL playoff run this year - he is good. Let's talk next summer

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Old
07-17-2006, 11:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Gags1288 View Post
I love people who look at the number of points a player puts up and uses that to judge him as a player. Mike Richards does oh so much more then put points on the board and his value is extremely high. Every team in the league would love to have a guy like Mike Richards regardless of how many points he scores. When he's putting up 60-70 points a year, he'll be one of the most valuable players in the game because of what he does in every facet of the game.
OK - I'm sure he does. Sounds like Jeff Halpern - he got all the way up to 46 points and took up valuable space on the second line for a few years...

I love how everyone on these boards over-rates prospects - me included

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Old
07-18-2006, 09:06 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
In all seriousness, Richards for Fleischman may be a consideration if Fleischman continues from his AHL playoff run this year - he is good. Let's talk next summer
Why? Why would the Flyers even think to consider it? Solid rookie season and NHLer and possible future captain for a prospect who is doing well in AHL. Why would we consider it? Is that because we have a lot of centers? Is that because we are over the cap or you think we are over the cap? Is that because Washington need a center and Flyers need wingers? Maybe the Flyers rebuilding? I mean tell me at least one good reason. How is Richards an overated prospect? He came to AHL during playoffs and took it over. Him and Carter. Name a rookie on yoru team besides Ovechkin who scored 34 points? In all seriousness........... stop offering junk..

34 points is not impressive for you but Richards was playing with Brashear, Stevenson, Radovojevic, Kapanen and 10-15 games with Handzus. He did however played a few games with Gagne and did very good.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 07-18-2006 at 09:13 AM.
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Old
07-18-2006, 11:04 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Why? Why would the Flyers even think to consider it? Solid rookie season and NHLer and possible future captain for a prospect who is doing well in AHL. Why would we consider it? Is that because we have a lot of centers? Is that because we are over the cap or you think we are over the cap? Is that because Washington need a center and Flyers need wingers? Maybe the Flyers rebuilding? I mean tell me at least one good reason. How is Richards an overated prospect? He came to AHL during playoffs and took it over. Him and Carter. Name a rookie on yoru team besides Ovechkin who scored 34 points? In all seriousness........... stop offering junk..

34 points is not impressive for you but Richards was playing with Brashear, Stevenson, Radovojevic, Kapanen and 10-15 games with Handzus. He did however played a few games with Gagne and did very good.
So, according to you, if the prospect is a Philly prospect and rules in the AHL playoffs - future captain and untouchable. If it happens for the Caps, he is junk.

I get it, nice logic.

The offer was to re-think it once Fleischman gets his rookie season completed, then lets compare. I think you missed that point, too. My apologies, too - the assumption was that Clark would still be part of the deal.

I don't recall saying anything about the cap, but you can judge if you want.

BTW - Fleischman plays all forward positions, so, no, it's not because you "need a winger and we need a center"


Last edited by dinoflint: 07-18-2006 at 11:09 AM.
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Old
07-18-2006, 11:08 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
BTW - Fleischman plays all forward positions, so, no, it's not because you "need a winger and we need a center"
so then, why is it? i see absolutely no reason that the flyers make this deal.

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Old
07-18-2006, 11:36 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
So, according to you, if the prospect is a Philly prospect and rules in the AHL playoffs - future captain and untouchable. If it happens for the Caps, he is junk.

I get it, nice logic.

The offer was to re-think it once Fleischman gets his rookie season completed, then lets compare. I think you missed that point, too. My apologies, too - the assumption was that Clark would still be part of the deal.

I don't recall saying anything about the cap, but you can judge if you want.

BTW - Fleischman plays all forward positions, so, no, it's not because you "need a winger and we need a center"
Who are you calling prospect? I am confused...

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Old
07-18-2006, 11:40 AM
  #35
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Philadelphia is not going to trade Richards. Capitals fans are barking up the wrong tree here. This guy isn't on the trade block.

Fleischmann had a very good AHL season, but Mike Richards has considerably more cachet around the league, and their respective values are not close.

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Old
07-18-2006, 11:43 AM
  #36
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Cosmo Kramer won't be coming to the caps

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Old
07-18-2006, 12:18 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
So, according to you, if the prospect is a Philly prospect and rules in the AHL playoffs - future captain and untouchable. If it happens for the Caps, he is junk.

I get it, nice logic.
No, the reason why Mike Richards is considered future captain material is that he has been the captain at every level he has played at, including captaining the Canadian WJC team, and won at every level. Add in the fact that he is good defensively, has some offensive ability, and showed in every league prior that he stepped his game up a great deal in the playoffs or crucial situations, and you have a player that is untouchable and regarded as future captain material. Perhaps you need to do a bit more research on prospects before tossing out such absurd statements.

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Old
07-18-2006, 12:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
Have you? Zednik is a rental - just like Friesen last year...

Flash had 63 pts in 57 games in the AHL - 32 more pts in 20 playoff games - yeah, he's no longer in the plans...I say we let him rot in the AHL...

Jeez, even our own fans don't know what's going on...sorry Philly fans
I agree. While I do not know if the Caps currently consider Flash a core player, at the very least the Caps are hopeful that Flash will become a core player, perhaps this year if he can show he belongs in the NHL.

Second, even with Zednik in the lineup, there remains a right wing spot on the top two lines for Flash because if Flash lights it up in the preseason, the Caps can move Clark to the third line.

Finally, there is a very unfortunate ailment in the NHL called injuries. At any one time on virtually any team, at least one of the top six players is out with an injury and often it can be two, maybe even three. Last year I think only a couple of Caps were able to play all 82 games. In regard to injuries Flash is very versatile because he can play both wings and can be sent down to the minors on a short-term basis without having to go through waivers if there are brief times when the Caps are all healthy.

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Old
07-18-2006, 03:54 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
Overpayment on the par of the Caps in that one...

I love Philly fans - 34 points in a rookie year and he's untouchable, classic...
You clearly do not have a clue who Mike Richards is or what his worth is. Classic.

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Old
07-18-2006, 08:10 PM
  #40
dinoflint
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Originally Posted by kylez19 View Post
so then, why is it? i see absolutely no reason that the flyers make this deal.
I don't either. I'm not defending the proposal, I'm defending the prospect, Fleischmann.

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Old
07-18-2006, 08:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by trippyime View Post
You clearly do not have a clue who Mike Richards is or what his worth is. Classic.
You mean untouchable like "AO or Crosby untouchable", right?

Or do you mean, "my favorite prospect untouchable"?

Look, I don't doubt you all think he's got a bright future, heck, I think he's got a bright future, too. Untouchable? Nope. Not in this day and age...hence someone proposing a trade, not me

My only suggestion was to wait and see what Fleischmann does this season and let's compare later, just for ****s and giggles.

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Old
07-18-2006, 08:18 PM
  #42
dinoflint
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Who are you calling prospect? I am confused...
Richards, past tense. You cited his lighting up the AHL in the playoffs - that would make him a prospect back then, correct?

Fleischman doing the same this year makes him a current prospect, correct?

Let's put this one off until the end of next season and see how my boy Flash did?

Truce?

Like I said before, I am not here to defend the trade proposal, only the prospect.

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Old
07-18-2006, 08:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by kylez19 View Post
so then, why is it? i see absolutely no reason that the flyers make this deal.
Beats me - not my proposal. I'm only pointing out he plays all forward positions. Ask the other guy...

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Old
07-18-2006, 08:49 PM
  #44
dinoflint
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Originally Posted by trippyime View Post
You clearly do not have a clue who Mike Richards is or what his worth is. Classic.
No kidding, I didn't know he was on the ballot for the Flyers Hall of Fame...

Here's a list of the top 50 rookies this year points-wise from ESPN (not that it's the most important stat, just how it came up), they all have the potential to be something great, be it leadership, scoring, both. Whatever, the point is EVERYONE is an asset. This list likely contains 2 or 3 lifers - obvious front-runners would be AO, Crosby and Phaneuf, but that doesn't mean squat. Everyone else will be moved or cut at some point - probably sooner than their #1 fan would hope and likely for a short-term gain. Such is the new age of hockey, like it or not. I think I clearly know who Mike Richards is and what his worth is - one of the top 20 prospects in the league. However, he is one prospect away from being expendable. At the right price, he'd be moved, just like everyone else. Will it be anytime soon? I wouldn't think so...but you guys do have a lack of talent at wing past Gagne and Knuble (as I duck )

A. Ovechkin,
Sidney Crosby,
Brad Boyes,
Jussi Jokinen,
Marek Svatos,
Dion Phaneuf,
Thomas Vanek,
Petr Prucha,
Alexander Steen,
Kyle Wellwood,
Jeff Carter, PHI
Chris Kunitz,
Colby Armstrong,
Ryan Getzlaf,
Andrej Meszaros,
Keith Ballard,
C. Higgins,
R.J. Umberger,
Ryan Whitney,
F. Beauchemin,
Milan Michalek,
Rene Bourque,
Mike Richards,
Chris Campoli,
Michel Ouellet,
Zach Parise,
Brent Seabrook,
Antti Miettinen,
Jason Pominville,
Chris Kelly,
Patrick Eaves,
Tomas Plekanec,
Ryan Craig,
Kurtis Foster,
Steve Bernier,
Lee Stempniak,
Freddy Meyer,
Jay McClement,
Corey Perry,
Fedor Tyutin,
Paul Gaustad,
Zbynek Michalek,
Dennis Wideman,
J. Balastik,
Grant Stevenson,
Marcel Goc,
Pavel Vorobiev,
Duncan Keith,
Rostislav Olesz,
Brooks Laich

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Old
07-18-2006, 10:07 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
You mean untouchable like "AO or Crosby untouchable", right?

Or do you mean, "my favorite prospect untouchable"?

Look, I don't doubt you all think he's got a bright future, heck, I think he's got a bright future, too. Untouchable? Nope. Not in this day and age...hence someone proposing a trade, not me

My only suggestion was to wait and see what Fleischmann does this season and let's compare later, just for ****s and giggles.
It's almost like it doesn't matter to you that Ed Snider and Bob Clarke have said he's untouchable. But, they're just posters on a message board too, right?

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Old
07-18-2006, 11:57 PM
  #46
dinoflint
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Originally Posted by trippyime View Post
It's almost like it doesn't matter to you that Ed Snider and Bob Clarke have said he's untouchable. But, they're just posters on a message board too, right?
Too many batteries to my head, I guess.

What else would you expect them to say?

Every GM says this in every sport, right up to the point where <insert your favorite player's name here> gets traded, released, or what have you.

Believing in "untouchable" is "comical"...in a similar vein, isn't Iverson going to be traded? (not prodding, just curious...)

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Old
07-19-2006, 05:36 AM
  #47
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The reason I suggested the trade is that the flyers do have a ton of centers and the Caps have a ton of left-wings ... and while both Richards and Fleischmann can play other forwards positions Richards is a natural center and Fleischmann has played at left-wing.

Beside Gagne and Knuble the flyers do not have a lot of depth on either wing.
I am well aware of Richard play and while I like him I just had a feeling that Carter was going to be the player the flyers would build around.

I would also like to say that when the flyers said they wouldn't trade away their youth .... I just thought that meant they would be involed in trading 2 kids for established 30 year old NHL vet
but trading youth for youth would be different.

This trade is just to help spread out talent on both rosters

Fleischmann is projected to be a top 6 forward and he did have a solid season in the AHL last season.

He was drafted by Detroit in the 2nd rd of 02 draft and traded to Washington in the Lang deal

Detroit has a better drafting record than the Caps.
I'm sorry to have ruffled anyone's feathers

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Old
07-19-2006, 06:04 AM
  #48
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You won't see the Caps and Flyers trade very often. This trade doesn't make sense for the Flyers. They think they have a solid player in Richards so why trade that for a solid guy with less offense (Clarke) and a guy with potential (Flash). It's just not a good idea for them.

Of course, it could happen that Flash turns out to be the best player of the bunch. I wouldn't bet on it but it wouldn't shock me either. Guys like Daniel Alfredsson and Pavol Demitra came out of greater obscurity to be top guys in the league. Flash has serious serious skill-level. But whether his game works in the NHL - that's an unknown at this point. I think he's a safe bet to be a 2nd liner at least.

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