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Vancouver Canucks-New York Islanders

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
  #26
Chardo
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The Isles like big cap hits. They don't like big salaries. 4.2 million would make Ballard the highest paid player on the team. Visnovsky has a cap hit of 5.6 million but is only getting paid 3 million. Visnovsky is the better player, and financially makes much much much more sense for the Isles.
Tavares will be at 5M next year, and 6M thereafter. DiPietro also makes more than 4.2M, but that's another issue.

Of course Viz makes more sense financially, but he is gone after this season.

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02-28-2013, 01:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Tavares will be at 5M next year, and 6M thereafter. DiPietro also makes more than 4.2M, but that's another issue.

Of course Viz makes more sense financially, but he is gone after this season.
Next year Tavares will be the highest paid player on the team, even if Ballard is acquired. I no longer consider DiPietro as being on the team. We are after all talking about a trade for Visnovsky, who is an upcomming UFA. So my statements were based on this year's budget.

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02-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #28
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Ballard + 2nd for Visnovsky + Reasoner + Montreal's 4th

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02-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If Ballard were about to become a ufa, after having spent the last few seasons on Vancouver's 3rd pairing, do you really think the isles would offer him $4.2m per, make him their highest paid defenseman?

I don't.

Being 3rd pair on a deep team can be misleading. Sometimes it just means they're blessed with even better players. Vancouver fans, help those of us who don't watch your team often. Has Ballard been that bad?

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02-28-2013, 01:51 PM
  #30
Yashin for President
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If the Isles are out of it they should get as much as possible for Visnovsky. On the other hand, if he likes being with the Isles they have to try and resign him. Maybe a 2 year deal?

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02-28-2013, 01:52 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Being 3rd pair on a deep team can be misleading. Sometimes it just means they're blessed with even better players. Vancouver fans, help those of us who don't watch your team often. Has Ballard been that bad?
He's actually been REALLY good this year.. I think he's a capable top 4. He's playing behind Edler, Hamhuis & Garrison on the left side.

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02-28-2013, 01:53 PM
  #32
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Being 3rd pair on a deep team can be misleading. Sometimes it just means they're blessed with even better players. Vancouver fans, help those of us who don't watch your team often. Has Ballard been that bad?
Two seasons ago he was bad.
Towards the end of last season + playoffs he was one of our better d-men.
This season he has been good for us, one of our more consistent d-men. This is the first time I haven't completely hated his cap hit.

His style of play isn't utilized well in Vancouver.
He likes to carry the puck into the offensive zone, but our coaching staff wants our d-men to pass the puck up to the forwards.

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02-28-2013, 01:53 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Ballard + 2nd for Visnovsky + Reasoner + Montreal's 4th
Even worse deal. Reasoner is probably worth a 3rd or 4th. So the Islanders are essentially adding 2 picks here to a deal their fan base largely rejected.

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02-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #34
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Being 3rd pair on a deep team can be misleading. Sometimes it just means they're blessed with even better players. Vancouver fans, help those of us who don't watch your team often. Has Ballard been that bad?
With the isles reportedly trying to extend Streit's deal, I expect a return to MacDonald/Hamonic and Streit/Strait pairings. Mark Streit's taking a $1.1m per paycut. Brian Strait played solidly before being injured.

Garth Snow will not trade for Ballard and his $4.2m per salary.
We can argue all day, whether other teams fans underestimate Ballard or whether Canuck fans overrate Ballard. The Canucks will need to offer something Snow actually wants.

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02-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
If the Isles are out of it they should get as much as possible for Visnovsky. On the other hand, if he likes being with the Isles they have to try and resign him. Maybe a 2 year deal?
I would love that.

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02-28-2013, 02:32 PM
  #36
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I do this deal.

Ballard and a second for Vis plus Islanders 3rd.

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02-28-2013, 02:40 PM
  #37
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Even worse deal. Reasoner is probably worth a 3rd or 4th. So the Islanders are essentially adding 2 picks here to a deal their fan base largely rejected.

Maybe 5 or 10 years ago. Reasoner has almost no value right now. 36 year old fourth liners (occasionally scratched) on bad teams don't get traded for 3rds and 4ths. Especially ones that have 1 goal and -30 since last year. He can win faceoffs and kill some penalties, that's it. Anyone trading a 3rd or 4th for him is seriously overpaying.

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02-28-2013, 02:42 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Maybe 5 or 10 years ago. Reasoner has almost no value right now. 36 year old fourth liners (occasionally scratched) on bad teams don't get traded for 3rds and 4ths. Especially ones that have 1 goal and -30 since last year. He can win faceoffs and kill some penalties, that's it. Anyone trading a 3rd or 4th for him is seriously overpaying.
Disagree. He's still a very solid faceoff guy, and he's got a great contract.

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02-28-2013, 04:09 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
If we're out at the deadline, I do this easily.
yea exactly what i was going to post. Not a chance snow passes up on Ballard and a pick for Viz, UNLESS there is a 1st and mid level prospect on the table from elsewhere.

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02-28-2013, 04:15 PM
  #40
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Even worse deal. Reasoner is probably worth a 3rd or 4th. So the Islanders are essentially adding 2 picks here to a deal their fan base largely rejected.
What? Reasoner's worth a 3rd or 4th? The guy who nobody would miss if he was waived? He's one of the most useless players I've ever seen.

I would do the deal you quoted.

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02-28-2013, 04:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
What? Reasoner's worth a 3rd or 4th? The guy who nobody would miss if he was waived? He's one of the most useless players I've ever seen.

I would do the deal you quoted.
Apparently the Flames fan thinks he knows more about your team then you.

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02-28-2013, 04:28 PM
  #42
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yea exactly what i was going to post. Not a chance snow passes up on Ballard and a pick for Viz, UNLESS there is a 1st and mid level prospect on the table from elsewhere.
At the deadline, Ballard will be owed just under $1,000,000. If Garth has offers of Ballard + 2nd or just a 2nd, which do you think Wang will tell him to take?

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02-28-2013, 04:32 PM
  #43
blankall
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
What? Reasoner's worth a 3rd or 4th? The guy who nobody would miss if he was waived? He's one of the most useless players I've ever seen.

I would do the deal you quoted.
A 3rd is probably pushing it. However, teams will have interest at the deadline. His faceoff ability alone will draw interest.

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02-28-2013, 04:42 PM
  #44
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The real question is how has the recruiting of Free Agents gone for the Isles in the past? Excluding older player I say its not gone so well.

So come Free agency Vis will for all signs walk and the demand for defenceman will be what? Honestly havent looked recently at who is a FA..let me look. Its weak and guys are going to get overpaid for the twilight years.

Say Vis walks that shows your 2 starters and 3 farm players all playing D. Then look at the FA field and see how your going to fill it. If your happy with the Isles plugging in vets like they have done the last couple years than all power to you.

It can be argued where Ballards skill is these days but to be honest I think the Canucks have misused him and he shows flashes of himself once in a well that carries the puck from one end to the other. Our coaching in Van doesnt allow him to play that way very often.
I think his contract is a easy fit,take a look at Grabner!
Guy wasnt doing well in our system and got tossed for Mayray.

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02-28-2013, 05:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Come on. I like Ballard but he's on a pretty bad contract and hasn't been performing well at all since arriving in Vancouver.

Actually, let me rephrase that. He's not playing like the Keith Ballard people saw in Florida, and not in a good way. That will take away a lot of his value.
ok, so what would Ballard's value be if he was playing well in Vancouver? Like say he was the team's most consistent dman this year? Or say he was the team's most consistent dman since coming back from injury last year, and through the playoffs, and then throughout this season so far?

Would that help his value?

I think most people that have watched Ballard play since his return from injury last year will tell you that he has been the team's most consistent dman since his return, was the team's best dman through the playoffs, and has been the only consistent dman overall this year (along with Tanev).

Do we still hold on to his play from when he first arrived in Vancouver, was hit by long-term injuries for the first time in his life, and had problems adjusting to a new system then, or do we consider his most recent impact over the past 40 or so regular season games and his 1st round playoff work last year?

It seems most fans are still sticking to the Ballard that first arrived in Vancouver and are completely dismissing his play since his return from his last long-term injury.

Should his value have improved when he's now proven he's adapted to the system and has played SIGNIFICANTLY better since? Or do people just ignore that, ignore the fact that dealing with major injuries for the first time and adjusting to a new, completely different system, will have an impact on a player's transition overall?

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02-28-2013, 05:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Ballard hasn't been a quality, top 4 d-man for several yrs.

Why would the isles believe he's a quality, top 4 d-man ? Those old tapes from his FL days?
Well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
His style of play isn't utilized well in Vancouver.
He likes to carry the puck into the offensive zone, but our coaching staff wants our d-men to pass the puck up to the forwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudedthought View Post
It can be argued where Ballards skill is these days but to be honest I think the Canucks have misused him and he shows flashes of himself once in a well that carries the puck from one end to the other. Our coaching in Van doesnt allow him to play that way very often.
Simply looking at the stats can make it look like Ballard forgot how to play hockey. The truth is that he suffered some nagging injuries, had a difficult time adjusting to a new system that doesn't play to his strengths, and never truly gained the trust of coaches until this year(they let him play important minutes and more various matchups this year IMO).

The biggest thing affecting his production is the Canucks system. It doesn't permit him to gather speed in his own zone and rush the puck up the ice himself as the forwards are tilted toward looking for outlet passes instead of supporting the puck. It demands the D with the puck to be a true passer while Ballards natural instinct is to drift forward if not actively skate the puck forward - that drastically alters passing angles.

Whoever gets Ballard in the next couple years and uses a system with a more conservative breakout will look like geniuses to the average fan. I'm not convinced that GMs around the league (Gillis included) don't know exactly what happened with Ballard. I'd also bet Gillis would demand a high value in the offseason if it weren't for cap realities.

He is not a good fit for Vancouver. I don't know the Isles system well enough to say if he's a good fit there but any team willing to take some chances with their D by supporting them with neutral zone forwards would be smart to try and nab Ballard for a couple years(higher salaries arent such a big deal when the term is short) while his value is low.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:16 PM
  #47
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No thanks, Lubo has been on ice for 19 of the 26 goals scored vs Isles since he started playing this year

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02-28-2013, 08:48 PM
  #48
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No thanks, Lubo has been on ice for 19 of the 26 goals scored vs Isles since he started playing this year
where are you getting that stat?

according to nhl.com, he's only been on the ice for 9 GA. The team has scored 19 goals for while he's been on the ice, is that what you're referring to?

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:30 PM
  #49
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Pass. Ballard has been great for us. I don't know why we'd give up a 2nd for someone who may or may not be an upgrade.

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02-28-2013, 09:35 PM
  #50
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Pass. Ballard has been great for us. I don't know why we'd give up a 2nd for someone who may or may not be an upgrade.
Ballard's been solid defensively, but Visnovsky is on a whole other level offensively. There's no question our PP needs work, and Visnovsky would be a huge help, as well as his ability to play the right side at ES comfortably.

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