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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-27-2013, 03:52 PM
  #101
Mgkibbles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromster View Post
and as far as the numbers go, Boosh had an .899 and Emery had .905. The differences between that and Bryz's .900 are pretty much negligible, and they played the majority of the season. MFL played 27 games that year. Had he played more, i'd wager his percentage would be a lot lower than .918. I guess we'll rack that up to conjecture. Well that and the team in front of him, which was my whole point but whatev.
Emery's numbers from that season are skewed though. He'd been playing very well for the first month and a half, and then his hip disintegrated on him.

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02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Goalies depend on the team in front of them, yes.

However, goalies with a 5.6 million dollar cap hit should not be utterly dependent on the team in front of them for success. If Bryz at least looked good out there (like he did early) that would be one thing. But, he has not looked good.
this says everything. this is it. the whole point. the heart of the disagreement. I remember when i watched hockey and didn't give a **** bout what anybody made. that's where i'm still a dinosaur. i just don't care about that cap hit. i probably would if it was over 7 like pekke rinne's no cup no vezina winning cap hit. I'm kiddin, i still wouldn't. a player or anybody for that matter is worth whatever someone is willing to pay them. opinions on salary is just a futile unwinnable argument. and besides toronto what are we talking about? florda? that was on the team.


Last edited by funghoul: 02-27-2013 at 04:19 PM.
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02-27-2013, 04:23 PM
  #103
Bernie Parent 1974
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Hartnell - DIRECT QUOTE

Quote:
"it's been taking 2 goals against to wake us up. it's not Lavy's fault & it's not Bryz's fault, he's been one of our best players for the 1st half of the year. Probably our best player. His attitude has changed. He doesn't seek the camera or accolades for himself"
can't dispute that Hartnell specifically left Bryz out of that group that who is not winning battles, while just going through the motions.

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02-27-2013, 04:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
this says everything. this is it. the whole point. the heart of the disagreement. I remember when i watched hockey and didn't give a **** bout what anybody made. that's where i'm still a dinosaur. i just don't care about that cap hit. i probably would if it was over 7 like pekke rinne's no cup no vezina winning cap hit. I'm kiddin, i still wouldn't. a player or anybody for that matter is worth whatever someone is willing to pay them. opinions on salary is just a futile unwinnable argument. and besides toronto what are we talking about? florda? that was on the team.
That's because you're used to a time when it didn't affect the team. Salary cap considerations have an enormous effect on how you build a team nowadays.

Look at Chicago after they won the Cup; that team would have been set up to be a potential dynasty a decade earlier, they had insane talent outside of net. That team was scattered across the league because they couldn't afford to keep all those players due to the salary Cap and it set them back a few years...a lot of it was because they had a 5+ million dollar albatross contract tied up in a goaltender who underperformed. That sounds familiar.

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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Hartnell - DIRECT QUOTE
Emphasis on POSSIBLY. As time goes on, if Bryz keeps playing like he has, he won't be in the running.

Hartnell is entitled to his opinion, but Voracek has certainly surpassed Bryzgalov.

Edit: And wow, why are you bolding the part about Bryz's fault?

Nobody here is saying the team's struggles are entirely on Bryz's shoulders. You're notorious for ignoring what people are actually saying, and pretending they're saying something else entirely.

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Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-27-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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02-27-2013, 04:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
I remember when i watched hockey and didn't give a **** bout what anybody made. that's where i'm still a dinosaur. i just don't care about that cap hit.

i'm with you. youre worth what someone agrees to pay you.
just win.

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02-27-2013, 04:31 PM
  #106
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I don't know if anyone's interested, but I was, so I somewhat quickly made this histogram of all Bryz's and Leighton's regular season performances up until today. I couldn't insert less than signs, so at the bottom 0.95 means 0.94 < SP <= 0.95 and so on. I also made no distinction between games where a goalie has finished the game or came in relief. This is just straight up, all games included analysis on the frequency of posting a game save percentage falling into a particular bin.


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02-27-2013, 04:36 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i'm with you. youre worth what someone agrees to pay you.
just win.
That works in the 90s.

This is not the 90s. If you aren't actually worth what your cap hit is, and it's a large cap hit, you're a detriment. That's a flat out fact, ignoring it doesn't change it. Why do you think everyone is so annoyed with Briere? If he wasn't paid 6.5 million cap dollars he wouldn't be a problem. However, he IS paid 6.5 million cap dollars...and the cap happens to be dropping by about 6 mil next year. Therefore, Briere becomes a pretty big problem. Any expensive player who doesn't play to his value (Exactly like Briere) hinders the team in deeper ways than simple on-ice mediocrity...he hinders the team's ability to sign better players to make up for him; before the Cap, that didn't matter, unless your team was poor. This is how the NHL works in the Cap Era.

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02-27-2013, 05:28 PM
  #108
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This season's woes are not Bryz's fault and it's clearly more of a team thing, however Bryz hasn't lived up to his contract. We're not getting top-10 goaltending which is how Bryzgalov is payed.

Comparable players this season in terms of stats and play could be Cam Ward (who's payed as a top-5 goalie), Ondrej Pavelec, Evgeni Nabokov, Jimmy Howard, Sergei Bobrovsky (). Several goalies got off to rough starts but have turned it around as of late like Holtby and Quick. Bryz went the opposite way, sadly.

Other than Cam Ward - who has been called terrible by Hurricanes fans this season - and Pavelec all the goalies listed aren't signed long term, and their cap hits are barely in the top-30. If it comes down to it and Bryzgalov is amnestied, there could easily be a replacement found who will put out the same performance for less than half the cap-hit Bryzgalov has and probably less than 1/4 of the term. Unless Bryzgalov completely turns it around and ends up playing like a top-10 goaltender on the season and is actually our MVP and the team still can't turn it around, this seems like the best move in terms of cap-management.



I would try and trade for an upcoming RFA/UFA to be our back-up in the meantime. Ben Bishop, Jake Allen, Matt Hackett, or even spend more and go all the way after Jon Bernier when the time comes this offseason.

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02-27-2013, 06:21 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
That works in the 90s.

This is not the 90s. If you aren't actually worth what your cap hit is, and it's a large cap hit, you're a detriment. That's a flat out fact, ignoring it doesn't change it. Why do you think everyone is so annoyed with Briere? If he wasn't paid 6.5 million cap dollars he wouldn't be a problem. However, he IS paid 6.5 million cap dollars...and the cap happens to be dropping by about 6 mil next year. Therefore, Briere becomes a pretty big problem. Any expensive player who doesn't play to his value (Exactly like Briere) hinders the team in deeper ways than simple on-ice mediocrity...he hinders the team's ability to sign better players to make up for him; before the Cap, that didn't matter, unless your team was poor. This is how the NHL works in the Cap Era.
i understand all this of course. and don't act like people wouldn't complain if briere was not paid the way he is cause they would base it off who he was in the past. but goalies are different. i just don't see a better move at this point. i like how he's been playing including the toronto and florida games. all goalies can be better at times and they ALL let in crappers but i see a lot of problems with the decisions the other five guys on the ice make opposed to bryzgalov's play and confidence. he's earning that contract this year. i just think that term. the term is what gets that thing amnestied cup, vezina or not. its gonna happen. so don't worry. he'll be gone next year. i can't wait to see what we wind up with next tho.

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02-28-2013, 03:09 AM
  #110
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Time for this guy to earn his pay. Brutal upcoming week starting Sat.

OTT
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PITT
BOS

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02-28-2013, 03:50 AM
  #111
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His only sloppy play of the night ended in a goal against. That's annoying, coming off a game where Scrivens was sloppy all night and didn't really pay for it. Otherwise, he pretty much did what was needed against the Caps. In that game, all that he needed to do was not blow it.

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02-28-2013, 11:25 AM
  #112
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He had a solid game but that goal against was terrible. It happens.

Good game

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02-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Time for this guy to earn his pay. Brutal upcoming week starting Sat.

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Boucher has to start (and finish) at least one of these. Which one? I'd be inclined to say Ottawa.

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02-28-2013, 12:47 PM
  #114
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Honestly wouldn't mind starting Boosh against the Pens considering goals occur every 2 minutes when these two teams play. I'm confident this team can light up Fluekoun.

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02-28-2013, 12:49 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Hartnell - DIRECT QUOTE



can't dispute that Hartnell specifically left Bryz out of that group that who is not winning battles, while just going through the motions.
Hartnell only pointed out Lavi and Bryz because they are the ones who receive the most criticism

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02-28-2013, 01:11 PM
  #116
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I hate to say it (again) but you gotta give Boucher a start soon. Brutal stretch coming up in the next 4 games. Bryz starts all 4 and its 24 of 26. Not sure I am a fan of that.

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02-28-2013, 01:26 PM
  #117
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I hate to say it (again) but you gotta give Boucher a start soon. Brutal stretch coming up in the next 4 games. Bryz starts all 4 and its 24 of 26. Not sure I am a fan of that.
I would go Sens .

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02-28-2013, 02:17 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Boucher has to start (and finish) at least one of these. Which one? I'd be inclined to say Ottawa.
We have a back to back after the Boston game against the Sabres too.

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02-28-2013, 04:05 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Hartnell only pointed out Lavi and Bryz because they are the ones who receive the most criticism
Says who ? you ?

Hartnell only pointed out Lavi and Bryz because they are not the ones who are "not competing”. They are not the ones who are "not winning battles" or "just going through the motions"

Nor are they in the group of: "a young team that can skate and has strong sticks. We should be winning more battles than this. "

Good team win last night, Bryz included

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02-28-2013, 04:17 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Says who ? you ?

Hartnell only pointed out Lavi and Bryz because they are not the ones who are "not competing”. They are not the ones who are "not winning battles" or "just going through the motions"

Nor are they in the group of: "a young team that can skate and has strong sticks. We should be winning more battles than this. "

Good team win last night, Bryz included
You're really overextending your reach by trying to stretch these quotes into some sort of blessing for Bryz.

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02-28-2013, 04:18 PM
  #121
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I really hope they start Boosh against the Sens, give Bryz a game off to see if he can return to early season form.

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02-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #122
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This back and forth is making my head bleed.

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02-28-2013, 05:47 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
No goaltender is going to be CONSISTENTLY good if their team cannot limit quality scoring chances.
i just watched Rinne give up 4 in the 1st period & 5 total, pulled after the 2nd vs ANA. & 1 of them was a stickhandling blunder by him. was not back to back for NASH. bad games happen. to every goaile.

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02-28-2013, 05:59 PM
  #124
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Honestly wouldn't mind starting Boosh against the Pens considering goals occur every 2 minutes when these two teams play. I'm confident this team can light up Fluekoun.
I agree. Start Boucher against the Pens.

He also should have started against the Panthers after the last Pittsburgh game, but Lavy thought putting an exhausted Bryzgalov out there was a good idea for some reason.

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02-28-2013, 06:22 PM
  #125
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i just watched Rinne give up 4 in the 1st period & 5 total, pulled after the 2nd vs ANA. & 1 of them was a stickhandling blunder by him. was not back to back for NASH. bad games happen. to every goaile.
Dont even try to explain that here. Its not worth the time.

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