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Old
02-27-2013, 11:09 PM
  #76
Rorschach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domaug View Post
trust me, we all get that the Pens are robbing the Avs blind in this weird proposal, but suggesting players like Despres and Maatta aren't "significant" is ignorant
"Significant" on a "blockbuster" level. We both know those two guys are not worthless, but we also both know they are not "blockbuster" assets.

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Old
02-27-2013, 11:35 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzydrew22 View Post
pittsburgh needs help on the third line and toughen their defense...

To pitt:
steve downie
erik johnson
ryan o'byrne

to col:
tyler kennedy
simon despres
olli maatta
2nd pick 2013
This is hard to look at. My apologies to Avs fans.

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:19 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danmcn12 View Post
I think it is based more on logic. Any defensemen playing top minutes would be looking at 20-30 points on accident with the Pens. Or would you say Martin has more offensive skill then EJ?
I'll tell ya what.
Heck, when Paul Martin hits his career high point total, get back to me.
As i see it right now, he has 3 seasons in Jersey that were higher totals than any of his two seasons with the Penguins, so I'm not all that certain where the logic in bringing his name up is????

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:07 AM
  #79
dahrougem2
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Ok OP I got one for ya as a counter

To Colorado

Kris Letang
Matt Niskanen
Brandon Sutter

To Pittsburgh

Mark Olver
Stefan Elliott
Mitch Heard
Ryan Wilson

Yikes....doesn't look so good the other way around... I'm not saying the players are equivilent but when you trade bottom end players and unproven prospects for players who are vital to a teams success like Johnson and Downie are to Colorado, thats the kind of response that happens. Although, getting those two defensive prospects would be very nice, I would want something proven for Erik Johnson

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:19 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
What's the argument about...?

The OP's proposal sucks noodles and robs the Avs of a competent defenseman, something they are on short supply of right now. The Avs won't trade him unless there's significant overpayment involved because, well, he was the center piece of a blockbuster trade not long ago. And the whole, "we need at least one guy trying to keep pucks out besides Varlamov" thing...the surrounding discussion thereafter seems fairly trivial...

Adding the injured Steve Downie to help our playoff push seems questionable at best.

If our staff liked ROB or SOB more than, say, Engelland, then you offer a little something for either of them. If they wanted a slightly bigger fish, maybe you inquire about Jan Hejda, but again, that might further infringe on the Avs ability to not let the opponent walk all over their zone...

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Hejda-Niskanen
Bortuzzo

That wouldn't be bad to go into the playoffs with if Despres can hang...I guess we'll never know if he has to sit and watch Engelland crap up the works all day...

Is Hejda available or aren't you guys to that point yet? (In terms of handing the D over to the youth fully)
I don't think the team would like to deal Hejda. He and Barrie have formed a good little pairing in EJ's absence and would make a good second pairing if we ever get that EJ partner on the top pairing. After EJ the drop off to Hejda, Barrie and Wilson is steep, but the drop from them to SOB, ROB and Zanon is even bigger.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:35 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post

Is Hejda available or aren't you guys to that point yet? (In terms of handing the D over to the youth fully)
i would say let's wait until the deadline until that's decided , he's one of the D currently playing who's actually effective, at the deadline i could see a 2nd+prospect as a return for him.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:51 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Connolly2Duchene View Post
i would say let's wait until the deadline until that's decided , he's one of the D currently playing who's actually effective, at the deadline i could see a 2nd+prospect as a return for him.
But is that worth it to the avs? We've seen how long it can take to find the right partner for EJ, why would we give up the right partner for Barrie if we have him? Sure Hejda will be gone by the time we contend but by then we'll have an EJ partner and Barrie will be established, plus by that point Siemens could've arrived or Wilson may have learned to avoid injuries, so just hold onto Hejda cause he's one of our 3 top 4 dmen, and the other two are either hurt, EJ, or rookies, Barrie. I'd frankly rather hold onto Hejda for another year or two than get a 2nd and a midtier prospect

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Old
02-28-2013, 08:37 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Ok OP I got one for ya as a counter

To Colorado

Kris Letang
Matt Niskanen
Brandon Sutter

To Pittsburgh

Mark Olver
Stefan Elliott
Mitch Heard
Ryan Wilson

Yikes....doesn't look so good the other way around... I'm not saying the players are equivilent but when you trade bottom end players and unproven prospects for players who are vital to a teams success like Johnson and Downie are to Colorado, thats the kind of response that happens. Although, getting those two defensive prospects would be very nice, I would want something proven for Erik Johnson
Erik Johnson isn't worth Letang. Not close. The OP might be over the top, but this deal is a bigger joke. This isn't even close value wise to what was posted originally. Those four players don't even equal Letang.

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:50 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
The OPs trade suck, it doesn't matter if Despres is a good player which he is.

If we trade EJ+SOB I would personally demand,

Niskanen
Morrow
Depres
Harrington/Dumoulin

Coming back and yes I am serious. EJ would absolutely dominate for the Penguins paired with Letang.

I would go:

EJ
David Jones

For

Morrow
Despres
Kennedy
Dumoulin
Maybe add a pick outside of a first to balance

But I would think that's fair value..... if the Avs do it??

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
I would go:

EJ
David Jones

For

Morrow
Despres
Kennedy
Dumoulin
Maybe add a pick outside of a first to balance

But I would think that's fair value..... if the Avs do it??
No. Johnson just simply isn't being traded unless the Avs were the ones adding and a better defenceman is coming back.

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:29 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Erik Johnson isn't worth Letang. Not close. The OP might be over the top, but this deal is a bigger joke. This isn't even close value wise to what was posted originally. Those four players don't even equal Letang.
I recognize that we're bordering on futility by bringing this further up, but the OP's trade does not get Erik Johnson alone.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:13 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I recognize that we're bordering on futility by bringing this further up, but the OP's trade does not get Erik Johnson alone.
I hate to tell you, it does. Erik Johnson is a very talented player, but he ISN'T the budding player everyone expected when he was drafted number one.

That said and this isn't a knock on Erik Johnson at all. We don't NEED him. The OP might be a Penguin fan, but he doesn't realize that the Pens NEED top six wingers, not another puck moving Dman, a third line guy in Downie and a spare part D man that doesn't make Pittsburgh's top six.

There are names associated with Colorado that make no sense for Pittsburgh and isn't not a knock. No one should ever say ROR to Pittsburgh, or Stastny, or Duchene. They are all centers. We have arguably the top center collection around. Erik Johnson doesn't solve anything as far as needs in Pittsburgh either. None of your Dmen do.

The names that would solve a need are Landeskog (who wouldn't be available and shouldn't because he is a building block for Colorado, not a trade piece), Parenteau, McGinn and if Colorado wants to give Hejduk a chance of winning a Cup before retiring, him. McGinn and Hejduk are the best options, but only if they are available. Then again, we could use a third line upgrade and a healthy Downie would provide that, but we have bigger needs.

The OP did a poor job at asset management for Pittsburgh. The Penguins trade the Maatta type prospects along with picks for a TOP SIX winger, not a puck moving D; third line guy and a spare part. It makes ZERO sense from a Pittsburgh angle as well. It's a deal I wouldn't make if I were the Pittsburgh GM.


Last edited by OCPenguin: 02-28-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
I hate to tell you, it does. Erik Johnson is a very talented player, but he ISN'T the budding player everyone expected when he was drafted number one.

That said and this isn't a knock on Erik Johnson at all. We don't NEED him. The OP might be a Penguin fan, but he doesn't realize that the Pens NEED top six wingers, not another puck moving Dman, a third line guy in Downie and a spare part D man that doesn't make Pittsburgh's top six.

You don't need him but we do. Therefore no, that package wouldn't bring him in. Obviously he doesn't fill a need for you so you shouldn't offer it, but there's no point trying to convince Av's fans that EJ's value is x when we desperately need him on our team.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:36 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
You don't need him but we do. Therefore no, that package wouldn't bring him in. Obviously he doesn't fill a need for you so you shouldn't offer it, but there's no point trying to convince Av's fans that EJ's value is x when we desperately need him on our team.
I didn't purpose it. A supposed Penguin fan that doesn't know the true needs of his team did.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:36 PM
  #90
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Can someone enlighten me to why Pens need EJ? OP's proposal is garbage, regardless...

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
Can someone enlighten me to why Pens need EJ? OP's proposal is garbage, regardless...
look three posts up from yours. OCPenguin explains why the Pens don't need him, as if anyone needed more reasons to disagree with the trade in the OP.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
  #92
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Good proposal...but Colorado really should include Duchesne and Landy as well. Probably this year's first too.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:42 PM
  #93
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Malkin
Maatta (throw in)

for

EJ
7th round pick

Malkin=EJ
Maataa> 7th round pick, but you got to pay a premium to yank EJ from the Avs

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
If you have watched one single game of Pittsburgh this year, you would know why Erik Johnson isn't needed. We have several puck moving blueliners. Letang, Niskanen, Martin is turning into one this year; Despres when he plays. While there might be a tweak on the blueline, an acquisition for a STAY AT HOME guy, we don't need a kid like Erik Johnson as good and talented as he is.

We need to utilize our trade assets we have, D prospects and picks, for TOP SIX WINGERS. That is the big hole in our lineup. Utilizing those assets for anything else, is poor asset management.
Yeah, um, I'm a Pens fan, and my post was sarcasm. <= too late I guess

The whole point is that anyone who knows anything about the organization, knows that Pens don't need to trade for defenseman of EJ's caliber and the need for the top 6 winger is much, much more prominent.

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02-28-2013, 01:50 PM
  #95
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Can Avs fans stop with their pathetic attempt at jokes? That's all this thread has turned into. Every rational person here agrees that it's a crap proposal.

No need to bash Pens fans and their players.

Lock this up.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:52 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
Malkin
Maatta (throw in)

for

EJ
7th round pick

Malkin=EJ
Maataa> 7th round pick, but you got to pay a premium to yank EJ from the Avs
might as well throw Crosby and Neal in. for an All-Universe player like Erik Johnson, he's worth it.

like Dangles said, this is now just a joke thread by Avs fans. it's pretty sad. this thread has stayed open long enough.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:52 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
Id say Stewart and Shattenkirk is a pretty significant return.
Shattenkirk is. Stewart kinda (more than kinda) sucks...

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #98
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I swear the OP has made loads of proposals recently.

Only pieces that the Penguins should be looking to move at the moment is Tyler Kennedy and Matt Niskanen.

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
Yeah, um, I'm a Pens fan, and my post was sarcasm. <= too late I guess

The whole point is that anyone who knows anything about the organization, knows that Pens don't need to trade for defenseman of EJ's caliber and the need for the top 6 winger is much, much more prominent.

Sorry, I posted that and then went back to read your post and got it the second time around. That is why I deleted it.

Agree with your thoughts. Why the OP even thought of this is beyond me.

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:06 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
I hate to tell you, it does. Erik Johnson is a very talented player, but he ISN'T the budding player everyone expected when he was drafted number one.

That said and this isn't a knock on Erik Johnson at all. We don't NEED him. The OP might be a Penguin fan, but he doesn't realize that the Pens NEED top six wingers, not another puck moving Dman, a third line guy in Downie and a spare part D man that doesn't make Pittsburgh's top six.

There are names associated with Colorado that make no sense for Pittsburgh and isn't not a knock. No one should ever say ROR to Pittsburgh, or Stastny, or Duchene. They are all centers. We have arguably the top center collection around. Erik Johnson doesn't solve anything as far as needs in Pittsburgh either. None of your Dmen do.

The names that would solve a need are Landeskog (who wouldn't be available and shouldn't because he is a building block for Colorado, not a trade piece), Parenteau, McGinn and if Colorado wants to give Hejduk a chance of winning a Cup before retiring, him. McGinn and Hejduk are the best options, but only if they are available. Then again, we could use a third line upgrade and a healthy Downie would provide that, but we have bigger needs.

The OP did a poor job at asset management for Pittsburgh. The Penguins trade the Maatta type prospects along with picks for a TOP SIX winger, not a puck moving D; third line guy and a spare part. It makes ZERO sense from a Pittsburgh angle as well. It's a deal I wouldn't make if I were the Pittsburgh GM.
His value to pittsburgh isn't the only thing that matters in a trade proposal, it has to be worth it for the Avs to, and the package in the OP is not worth losing EJ for for the Avs, regardless of it not being something Pitt would do either. That's his point and it's an accurate one. The only way the Avs could trade EJ and help their team is if they're getting an even better young dman back.

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