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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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02-27-2013, 08:40 PM
  #551
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..could I have fun with that one.....
... reckon ya could. And betray some of my sources? Hafta look you up personally like TL.

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02-27-2013, 08:41 PM
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The analysts after the Sherwood were talking about the marketing they need to do and they were talking about discounting tickets, family packs, student discounts, etc. Huh aren't they already doing that?
I'd hardly label two radio jocks as analysts but.....

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02-27-2013, 09:26 PM
  #553
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Who says he isn't?? Other than the fact he likes to take advantage of free access to the city owned suites at jobing.com and Camelback Ranch what else does anyone really know?



She's looking at the bigger picture. I put forward a few weeks ago the concept that Ellman used the NHL franchise as a loss leader to a much bigger project Westgate. Ellman was going to sell off the entire project this coming year had he been able to build it out on schedule.

The Coyotes were part of a bigger thing. Not meant to stand on their own. That's why you saw Glendale fighting so hard to keep the team there. Most here can't seem to see past that.



Oh boy....... could I have fun with that one.....
Regarding the sense of urgency, this has been dragging on for 4 years. Everyone knows nothing is going to really happen until you get towards the end of April. Potential owners are going to posture between now and then. Why would he have a huge sense of urgency?

I understand that Glendale had this huge plan, but it didn't work. No one bought Westgate out of foreclosure and the bank wound up taking it over. Tanger came in, but what else do they have? In absence of other development the Coyotes are going to have to stand or fall on their own. Even if there is other development in Westgate its not like any of the potential Coyotes owners are going to be a part of that.

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02-27-2013, 09:31 PM
  #554
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Wait, are you saying that Jamison is such a rube that he didn't have non-compete, non-disclosures with his investors?

On the one hand, Jamison is the business mastermind who would revive the wreckage of the Coyotes.
On the other hand, Jamison doesn't even have the most fundamental agreements in place to prevent behind-his-back dealings?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post
I wouldn't be surprised if Jamison didn't have anything very formal with potential investors. My guess is that the "JIG" was more of a concept than a reality, and it never got off the ground.

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02-27-2013, 11:26 PM
  #555
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jamison didn't have anything very formal with potential investors. My guess is that the "JIG" was more of a concept than a reality, and it never got off the ground.
Im surprised to read that from you Whileee. Desert Sands? Blinded by cynicism perhaps? Your a LOT sharper than that easy exit. And you expect me to just what? Heel?

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02-28-2013, 12:22 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Glendale councilman Gary Sherwood was interviewed today on the Coyotes.

Straight up interview..... several tidbits in it.

http://sportsbreakthrough.com/show-a...hip-situation/
Thanks, that was interesting. Sherwood seems thoughtful and direct. Here's what I took away:

- Sherwood indicated that Beacon is not negotiating on behalf of the city.

- It appears Beacon is performing a Capital Formation service (ie: attempting to align potential buyers; determine the terms of said buyers MOU; present any results to Glendale.)

Note: In 2008-ish, Beacon was retained by Glendale to perform an Advisory service (completing a "Feasibility Report" for Coyotes operations at Jobing.com)

- Beacon may be shopping a 12-year, $156MM AMF lease ($13MM annual avg). Sherwood spoke as though there had already been discussion and disapproval of 5-year and 10-year-with-buyout leases.

- A separate RFP for arena management process has not yet commenced.

The city discussed conducting the two processes (Prof Svcs and RFP) simultaneously at a workshop. It seems highly probable that Glendale communicated what they were willing to do on a lease to Beacon and now Beacon will shop that to their network. If they get any serious hits, they'll bring them back to the city. We'll have to wait to see what is in the RFP, or if there is ever one actually issued for that matter.

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02-28-2013, 08:31 AM
  #557
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Im surprised to read that from you Whileee. Desert Sands? Blinded by cynicism perhaps? Your a LOT sharper than that easy exit. And you expect me to just what? Heel?
Blind as a bat, Killion.

It's hard to stomach this stuff any more. There's been nothing but a string of opportunists while the NHL sits back like the Cheshire Cat plotting its next move, with the fans and civic leaders of Glendale waiting with baited breath. Next thing you know, all that will be left is a big grin.

On the ownership side, Jamison was the last straw. Glendale put itself on the wrack to accommodate his lease demands, while the guy kept on indicating that he had the investors and it was just a matter of time before he put it all together. And then... zip, nada. The guy goes up in a puff of smoke, and when we peer behind the curtain the Wiz of Oz has already left the building. Scruggs had him pegged perfectly.

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02-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #558
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You know what would be fun. If in the end Jim Bailsille buys the team. In 2012 he liquidated his remaining RIM stock for between $250 and $300 million. Plus what he had from before, he's still close to being worth a billion $.

Seriously how funny would it be if the only person who could take the team was Balsille?
it would be very funny, but Jim's not the only one who has darkened the commish's doorstep lately trying to bring a team to the hammer.

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02-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #559
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But even after a four-month delay to the start of the season and the impending four-year anniversary of ownerless existence, the Coyotes have enjoyed an increase in attendance through the first 10 home games.

“It’s just been a building process, essentially,” Coyotes President Mike NealyCQ said. “Multiple years now of a competitive team is really at the basis of this.”

The Coyotes are averaging 13,142 fans per game, according to attendance reports from ESPN. They rank 29th in the league, ahead of the New York Islanders.

Compared to the first 10 home games last season, paid tickets for this season are up 30 percent, Nealy said.

The Coyotes define their attendance as tickets sold and complimentary tickets, which are free tickets distributed by the team. In the past, complimentary tickets would range from 3,000 to 5,000 per game, Nealy said, but this season they’ve usually been only a couple hundred and definitely less than 1,000.

The season-ticket base is also the largest since 1999, Nealy said, and the renewal rate is 90 percent — the highest in franchise history.

“Our average ticket price paid is up,” Nealy said. “We didn’t raise prices, but people are either buying more expensive tickets or not doing as much discounting so it’s good both on the volume and the pricing.”
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The spike in interest also seems to have translated to the TV audience.

According to Fox Sports Arizona, 45,065 people on average watched the first 10 games on the network, a 150 percent increase over last year’s average.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...ome-games.html

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02-28-2013, 10:28 AM
  #560
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Really makes you wish that there was at least one qualified person who was willing to purchase the team and keep it in Glendale. Too bad that does not appear to be the case. With that asking price, it's no wonder.

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02-28-2013, 10:45 AM
  #561
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Really makes you wish that there was at least one qualified person who was willing to purchase the team and keep it in Glendale. Too bad that does not appear to be the case. With that asking price, it's no wonder.
This would be so easy if there was one person in Phoenix who had more money than they knew what to do with, just loved hockey, and just wanted to own a team as a hobby.

Walk into Bettman's office and plunk down $170M, and tell the CoG you will agree to the original lease ( that was in place 4 years ago ) for the next 20 years. Done....

But, sadly that is not reality. The only people showing their faces are shysters, con-artists, and KMART shoppers looking for someone else to pay all the bills while they get to own the team. People want to own it, but not take the risk of owning it.

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02-28-2013, 10:52 AM
  #562
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People want to own it, but not take the risk of owning it.
No legitimate buyers are sniffing around because they refuse to pay twice what the team is worth. It's really that simple. You have to play this absurd long game of trying to con the city into subsidizing the NHL's legal costs to get the price to where it should be. Who wants to be involved in that? Worse yet, that ship has sailed.

If the team was $90 million + that GJ lease? Line out the door. Step right up for your subsidized risk-free shot at owning an NHL team. But it's not priced like that, and no lease will ever be that good again.

The silence right now is pretty telling. A shame, considering that the team is improving.

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02-28-2013, 01:23 PM
  #563
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No legitimate buyers are sniffing around because they refuse to pay twice what the team is worth. It's really that simple. You have to play this absurd long game of trying to con the city into subsidizing the NHL's legal costs to get the price to where it should be. Who wants to be involved in that? Worse yet, that ship has sailed.

If the team was $90 million + that GJ lease? Line out the door. Step right up for your subsidized risk-free shot at owning an NHL team. But it's not priced like that, and no lease will ever be that good again.

The silence right now is pretty telling. A shame, considering that the team is improving.
I am certainly not convinced that simply lowering the price would automatically result in a sale. Notwithstanding a subsidy from Glendale, the operating losses of this team would surely eclipse any offset from a lower purchase price. Reasonably intelligent people have now taken over Glendale City Hall and any sort of worthwhile level of subsidy attractive enough to a buyer would obviously be directly tied to a minimum stay-put clause, thus guaranteeing large scale cumulative losses.

I would hazard to say that only a fool would even consider taking over this team if it was given to them for free.

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02-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #564
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I am certainly not convinced that simply lowering the price would automatically result in a sale. Notwithstanding a subsidy from Glendale, the operating losses of this team would surely eclipse any offset from a lower purchase price....
Yes its hard not to arrive at that conclusion. I think reflectively the window of opportunity did in fact wind up being closed & locked when Jerry Reinsdorf walked. The team's parked in an expensive lot, the price, despite the $50M thrown at it by the COG escalating daily, the initial price paid for the franchise of $140M above true market value, and only paid based on principal, the NHL forced into it in order to protect their rights of determination, shutting out an unwanted location & applicant. The days of Glendales largesse are over. About the only way I could see a sale being facilitated at this point would simply have to include an out-clause, a possible price-drop and terms from the NHL. If they were prepared to do that, they'd have done so by now, and though the chances are slim to none, they just might do so yet. All guesswork & speculation at this point Im afraid, and little comfort to the fans in Arizona.

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02-28-2013, 01:56 PM
  #565
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The team is gone at the end of the year, most likely to Seattle based upon new conferences. I will feel bad for QC if that happens.

I also expect that there will be significant litigation once the team does relocate.

Anyone's interest sparked by the most recent comments of one of the newly elected CM that said the NHL has still not withdrawn the $$$ that was placed in escrow last year? I thought that was interesting. Maybe the NHL would assign the right to that money to a new owner to effectively lower the price, without lowering the price on paper?

Either way, the longer this team goes without an owner, the more it is damaged goods in this market. Time for the team to move.

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02-28-2013, 02:13 PM
  #566
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The team is gone at the end of the year, most likely to Seattle based upon new conferences....
Sick feeling in stomach, I empathise. Not nice..... what are you referring to, that you "expect that there will be significant litigation" etc? And any link or source pursuant to the CM's comment that the league hasnt withdrawn the AMF from the 2011/12 season as of yet?

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02-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #567
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The team is gone at the end of the year, most likely to Seattle based upon new conferences. I will feel bad for QC if that happens.

I also expect that there will be significant litigation once the team does relocate.

Anyone's interest sparked by the most recent comments of one of the newly elected CM that said the NHL has still not withdrawn the $$$ that was placed in escrow last year? I thought that was interesting. Maybe the NHL would assign the right to that money to a new owner to effectively lower the price, without lowering the price on paper?

Either way, the longer this team goes without an owner, the more it is damaged goods in this market. Time for the team to move.
I really cant see them moving to Seattle! Everyone knows that Bettman would choose Seattle before Quebec but how possible is it at this point? Bettman always said that a shovel in the ground has to be made before anything happen. Plus if the coyotes are moving, I would think that the new owner is already aware of it? Seems like time is to short for Seattle to geta team next year. 14 teams on the east side and 17 teams on the westside....seems to me that they could keep Columbus in the west and then move the yotes on the east side. Would that make sense?

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02-28-2013, 02:53 PM
  #568
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No legitimate buyers are sniffing around because they refuse to pay twice what the team is worth. It's really that simple. You have to play this absurd long game of trying to con the city into subsidizing the NHL's legal costs to get the price to where it should be. Who wants to be involved in that? Worse yet, that ship has sailed.

If the team was $90 million + that GJ lease? Line out the door. Step right up for your subsidized risk-free shot at owning an NHL team. But it's not priced like that, and no lease will ever be that good again.

The silence right now is pretty telling. A shame, considering that the team is improving.
The asking price is precisely why GB never intended to sell this team! He was happy taking Glendales money so that he could live to see another day! Now that d-day is on the horizon, he likely knows exactly what he is going to do with this team. Again, why he does not say a word so as to jeopardize the last few folks through the Jobing turnstiles!

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02-28-2013, 03:16 PM
  #569
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Really makes you wish that there was at least one qualified person who was willing to purchase the team and keep it in Glendale. Too bad that does not appear to be the case. With that asking price, it's no wonder.
You cant really make the comparison they are making. It's like comparing attendance in baseball in July to attendance in April.

If they want to compare apples to apples they need to compare the first 10 games played from January 15, 2012 to the first 10 games played from January 15, 2013. You cannot compare the attendance especially since in October baseball and football are still going on along with basketball where in January the only competition is basketball. Also the weather is nicer and more amenable to outdoor activities.

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02-28-2013, 03:38 PM
  #570
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Sick feeling in stomach, I empathise. Not nice..... what are you referring to, that you "expect that there will be significant litigation" etc? And any link or source pursuant to the CM's comment that the league hasnt withdrawn the AMF from the 2011/12 season as of yet?
I will search for the link. It was in a local radio interview for a really small station that focuses on Glendale stuff. The comment was almost off the cuff that the NHL had not withdrawn the $$ in escrow.

I could see the CoG and the NHL involved in some form of litigation. The CoG has $50M to chase the NHL over, with promises from Daly, etc. that the money was only an insurance policy that would never be needed since ownership was "weeks" away. I'm not saying the CoG has a great case, but it would be interesting to see what kind of representations were made by the NHL, and what caused the GJ deal to fall apart. How much has the NHL contributed to the team not being sold? How much real interest does the NHL have in selling the team locally since the CoG was covering most, if not all loses? And was the NHL operating in good faith with the CoG, or just awaiting another soft landing after Atlanta went to Winni?

I don't do a great deal of plaintiff's commerical litigation, but I suspect with $50 M at issue at least, some capable lawyers will want to at least root through all the dirty little documents to see how the NHL dealt with the CoG. Time will tell I suppose....

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02-28-2013, 03:57 PM
  #571
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Sick feeling in stomach, I empathise. Not nice..... what are you referring to, that you "expect that there will be significant litigation" etc? And any link or source pursuant to the CM's comment that the league hasnt withdrawn the AMF from the 2011/12 season as of yet?
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I will search for the link. It was in a local radio interview for a really small station that focuses on Glendale stuff. The comment was almost off the cuff that the NHL had not withdrawn the $$ in escrow.

....
http://sportsbreakthrough.com/show-a...hip-situation/

11:18 mark

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02-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #572
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I don't do a great deal of plaintiff's commerical litigation, but I suspect with $50 M at issue at least, some capable lawyers will want to at least root through all the dirty little documents to see how the NHL dealt with the CoG. Time will tell I suppose....
Oh ok, ya, sure, see where your coming from on that. I thought perhaps it was something else or a series of things, direct breaches, broken covenants that were temporal, immediate, black & white. But sure, I could see a suit launched over the $50M, issues of performance or lack thereof etc. Wouldnt like Glendales chances though. The NHL is beyond careful, documentation in hand and all of it agreed to & signed off on. Its possible the audit will turn up some damning evidence I suppose, hard to say, but sure, this could get ugly. For now former city employee's, some current, Daly & Bettman et al. At the very least embarrassing.

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02-28-2013, 04:25 PM
  #573
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11:18 mark
Thanks Major... I wonder if Sherwoods got his facts straight? Its been reported elsewhere that "yes, the NHL did withdraw the $25M in escrow last year". So if they havent touched it, why not? That doesnt make any sense whatsoever. Are they not bleeding red ink to the extent claimed & speculated about ad nauseum with respect to attendance guesstimates, gate & concessions etc? Who just leaves $25M sitting in escrow now 8 months later after legally they had every right to withdraw it?

So if its true that losses as reported & claimed by the NHL were not as deep nor as bad as reported according to some little birdies who saw & read through Jamisons prospectus have told me, then why was that $25M being held in abeyance & uncollected? Earmarked to discounting the sale price or possibly used as a cash infusion in order to carry GJ's deal past the point of sale, a slush fund to be used for ongoing management & operational costs? Or does the NHL, in a final act of largesse, munificence & benevolence plan on returning it to the COG, stopping by City Hall on their way out of town & dropping off a check? One of those giant sized Publisher Clearing House.... Pull Ed McMahon out of the freezer (he still alive btw?) and wheel him along on a dolly. Somethin aint right here about this situation at all. Always follow the money, and here we are again, all kinds of questions, no answers.

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02-28-2013, 04:28 PM
  #574
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I will search for the link. It was in a local radio interview for a really small station that focuses on Glendale stuff. The comment was almost off the cuff that the NHL had not withdrawn the $$ in escrow.

I could see the CoG and the NHL involved in some form of litigation. The CoG has $50M to chase the NHL over, with promises from Daly, etc. that the money was only an insurance policy that would never be needed since ownership was "weeks" away. I'm not saying the CoG has a great case, but it would be interesting to see what kind of representations were made by the NHL, and what caused the GJ deal to fall apart. How much has the NHL contributed to the team not being sold? How much real interest does the NHL have in selling the team locally since the CoG was covering most, if not all loses? And was the NHL operating in good faith with the CoG, or just awaiting another soft landing after Atlanta went to Winni?

I don't do a great deal of plaintiff's commerical litigation, but I suspect with $50 M at issue at least, some capable lawyers will want to at least root through all the dirty little documents to see how the NHL dealt with the CoG. Time will tell I suppose....
Even if the CoG has no chance of ever winning any litigation against the NHL, the optics and the press coverage of doing so would be interesting to say the least. Having a former NHL city sue the NHL for $50M... this might make other cities think twice about getting into bed with the NHL. And I wonder how long Bettman would last in the NHL had to pay that ( or part of it at least ) back

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02-28-2013, 05:50 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Thanks Major... I wonder if Sherwoods got his facts straight? Its been reported elsewhere that "yes, the NHL did withdraw the $25M in escrow last year". So if they havent touched it, why not? That doesnt make any sense whatsoever. Are they not bleeding red ink to the extent claimed & speculated about ad nauseum with respect to attendance guesstimates, gate & concessions etc? Who just leaves $25M sitting in escrow now 8 months later after legally they had every right to withdraw it?

So if its true that losses as reported & claimed by the NHL were not as deep nor as bad as reported according to some little birdies who saw & read through Jamisons prospectus have told me, then why was that $25M being held in abeyance & uncollected? Earmarked to discounting the sale price or possibly used as a cash infusion in order to carry GJ's deal past the point of sale, a slush fund to be used for ongoing management & operational costs? Or does the NHL, in a final act of largesse, munificence & benevolence plan on returning it to the COG, stopping by City Hall on their way out of town & dropping off a check? One of those giant sized Publisher Clearing House.... Pull Ed McMahon out of the freezer (he still alive btw?) and wheel him along on a dolly. Somethin aint right here about this situation at all. Always follow the money, and here we are again, all kinds of questions, no answers.
You remember Daly's comment last year when he was asked about the second $25M ($20M in escrow) Glendale put up that because of the team's deep playoff run there might not be the losses people anticipated? The $20M is still sitting there.

Also Sherwood said in the interview that up to this point all the 30-day extensions the league and the city have agreed to are not costing the city anything.

So it isn't following the money as much as it's sitting there watching it collect dust.

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