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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:52 PM
  #501
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Off course you don't.

MT and the coaching staff is doing their best to shape Subban into a reliable star. Which means tempering him with more and less TOI at times. So far, I say it produces results. MT should keep doing it as long as he has the defensive depth to do so.
What the hell does this even mean? So, benching him and allowing lesser players who make more mistakes more minutes is shaping him into being a reliable star?

I would really like to see PK unleashed. Why does he have to be like everyone else? Let him do his thing. Of course he needs structure, but you can see him want to do something but freezes up because he's been programmed to play differently. It's akin to turning a high end sniper into a devensively responsible 2 way player.

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02-28-2013, 12:53 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading someone speak of this up and coming prospect who's getting his first cracks at the NHL, or a guy like Weber or a bit better.

He is playing with Francis Bouillon on a 3rd pairing while Emelin is looking absolutely lost on his off wing.
He is used 53sec on the PK per game when he was our best PK player in the previous years either with Gill or Gorges. He is also 2sec short of being the least used Dman at Even Strength. That alone is already ridiculous.
Everytime he has the puck and goes in his ''PK mode'' where he would create some interesting things last year (granted, sometimes it lead nowhere and caused turnovers), he stops and goes for a simple pass or dump in.
He rarely goes up in the offensive zone anymore. He doesn't seem to look for those big major hits anymore. You never see him get in the opposition's face.

He plays a very calm and discreet game, or at least he's trying to.

He doesn't look like the PK of the two previous years, and I don't think this is coming from him.

Last year he was trying to do too much, now we have him do way to little, to the point where he looks confused at times.
Bingo!

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02-28-2013, 12:56 PM
  #503
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He makes the odd error but I think he's been pretty good this season and a big reason why the team is winning. More penalty killing time would be ideal since he has shown to be very effective at it but I guess that's something that'll come with more trust from new coaching staff. There is no weak pairing on D that teams can try to throw their best players against to take advantage on even strength which IMO is a huge reason the team is good 5 on 5.

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02-28-2013, 01:09 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading someone speak of this up and coming prospect who's getting his first cracks at the NHL, or a guy like Weber or a bit better.

He is playing with Francis Bouillon on a 3rd pairing while Emelin is looking absolutely lost on his off wing.
He is used 53sec on the PK per game when he was our best PK player in the previous years either with Gill or Gorges. He is also 2sec short of being the least used Dman at Even Strength.
That alone is already ridiculous.
Everytime he has the puck and goes in his ''PK mode'' where he would create some interesting things last year (granted, sometimes it lead nowhere and caused turnovers), he stops and goes for a simple pass or dump in.
He rarely goes up in the offensive zone anymore. He doesn't seem to look for those big major hits anymore. You never see him get in the opposition's face.

He plays a very calm and discreet game, or at least he's trying to.

He doesn't look like the PK of the two previous years, and I don't think this is coming from him.

Last year he was trying to do too much, now we have him do way to little, to the point where he looks confused at times.
he's also playing 20 minutes a game on a team winning games more often than not.

Of course he looks confused sometimes, he's trying new things, like making a pass instead of going on a useless and predictable end to end rush, like moving the puck more on the PP and so on. He may look silly now at times, but in the long run him having more tools will benefits him and the team.

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02-28-2013, 01:12 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What the hell does this even mean? So, benching him and allowing lesser players who make more mistakes more minutes is shaping him into being a reliable star?

I would really like to see PK unleashed. Why does he have to be like everyone else? Let him do his thing. Of course he needs structure, but you can see him want to do something but freezes up because he's been programmed to play differently. It's akin to turning a high end sniper into a devensively responsible 2 way player.
of course you'd like so, you're enamored with his "style". Thing is, he's on pace for a better PPG, and better +/- this season.

I'll take the more efficient P.K. over the flashier.

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02-28-2013, 01:22 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What the hell does this even mean? So, benching him and allowing lesser players who make more mistakes more minutes is shaping him into being a reliable star?

I would really like to see PK unleashed. Why does he have to be like everyone else? Let him do his thing. Of course he needs structure, but you can see him want to do something but freezes up because he's been programmed to play differently. It's akin to turning a high end sniper into a devensively responsible 2 way player.
When PK is too "unleashed" he doesn't help the team. He has a great skill set but it has to operate in the confines of the team, not become the "PK show" where he adds 0.5 goals to our offense but also 1.0 goal against to our GAA.

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02-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What the hell does this even mean? So, benching him and allowing lesser players who make more mistakes more minutes is shaping him into being a reliable star?

I would really like to see PK unleashed. Why does he have to be like everyone else? Let him do his thing. Of course he needs structure, but you can see him want to do something but freezes up because he's been programmed to play differently. It's akin to turning a high end sniper into a devensively responsible 2 way player.
PK's problem isn't something that will be solved by experience. He's got the experience already; that step was solved in 2011.

No, his main flaw at the moment is his play maturity. It's making the right decision at the right time. Respect his positioning most of the time, and know when to be opportune and flashy, or when to make the safe and conservative play.

He had an amazing game against the Islanders. He was truly dazzling, and I loved him; a true Norris-level player. But then, he had a very, very average game, even weak game against the Senators when he tried to do too much by himself.

That is not the sort of problem you will solve by putting him more and more on the ice.

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02-28-2013, 02:16 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When PK is too "unleashed" he doesn't help the team. He has a great skill set but it has to operate in the confines of the team, not become the "PK show" where he adds 0.5 goals to our offense but also 1.0 goal against to our GAA.
I read this and I wonder what you've been watching all this time.

I'm also stunned at how PK's mistakes are so criticized while the mistakes of his peers are brushed under the rug.

I'm laughing at people citing stats as if that has anything to do with reduced PP and PK time. The guy scored 14 goals in his rookie year and I'm being told that when he's "unleashed" he's a detrement to the team and that he should have the ice time of a 5th Dman.

LOL @ the PK show. I think some are just bothered by his personality and that translates to how his game is viewed..similar to the non-fans that bash him for no reason.

That said... The Drew Doughty's of the world are free wheeling dmen who have not been held back...high risk, high reward player...yet he's the 2nd coming and PK needs to play within the confines of the system. Fair enough, but understand that he's being held back. Byfuglen is allowed to roam and do his thing. He will make errors, but the postitives of his game outweigh the negatives.

Anyways, perhaps that's why Emelin has been able to play like crap wtihout hearing about it. As crappy as he has played, he plays within the confines of the system so.....

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02-28-2013, 02:24 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I read this and I wonder what you've been watching all this time.

I'm also stunned at how PK's mistakes are so criticized while the mistakes of his peers are brushed under the rug.

I'm laughing at people citing stats as if that has anything to do with reduced PP and PK time. The guy scored 14 goals in his rookie year and I'm being told that when he's "unleashed" he's a detrement to the team and that he should have the ice time of a 5th Dman.

LOL @ the PK show. I think some are just bothered by his personality and that translates to how his game is viewed..similar to the non-fans that bash him for no reason.

That said... The Drew Doughty's of the world are free wheeling dmen who have not been held back...high risk, high reward player...yet he's the 2nd coming and PK needs to play within the confines of the system. Fair enough, but understand that he's being held back. Byfuglen is allowed to roam and do his thing. He will make errors, but the postitives of his game outweigh the negatives.

Anyways, perhaps that's why Emelin has been able to play like crap wtihout hearing about it. As crappy as he has played, he plays within the confines of the system so.....
You misunderstand us.

I certainly do not believe that if Subban is "unleashed", he will be a liability to our team.

But I do believe that rearing the stallion allows him to reach his full potential, where as a Subban left to his own device might hit a wall sooner or later.

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02-28-2013, 02:26 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When PK is too "unleashed" he doesn't help the team. He has a great skill set but it has to operate in the confines of the team, not become the "PK show" where he adds 0.5 goals to our offense but also 1.0 goal against to our GAA.
Except this has never happened and the exact opposite is the real truth.

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02-28-2013, 02:32 PM
  #511
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I'm not impressed--yet. That holdout set him back. I don't want to hear about the 3 goals he's scored because his defensive play hasn't caught up.

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02-28-2013, 02:47 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I'm not impressed--yet. That holdout set him back. I don't want to hear about the 3 goals he's scored because his defensive play hasn't caught up.
He's looked pretty solid defensively. But even last year when he was shutting down top lines and had a +9 people said his defensive game was lacking.

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02-28-2013, 02:51 PM
  #513
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I'm a huge Subban fan but last 2 games we're bad for him. Bad decision making, keeping the puck for too long.

I hate that people can't admit that.

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02-28-2013, 02:59 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I'm not impressed--yet. That holdout set him back. I don't want to hear about the 3 goals he's scored because his defensive play hasn't caught up.
What? There goes your credibility. If anything, Subban has struggled handling the puck in the offensive zone a bit, but overall has been great. His play in the defensive zone has been fantastic.

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02-28-2013, 03:17 PM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I read this and I wonder what you've been watching all this time.

I'm also stunned at how PK's mistakes are so criticized while the mistakes of his peers are brushed under the rug.

I'm laughing at people citing stats as if that has anything to do with reduced PP and PK time. The guy scored 14 goals in his rookie year and I'm being told that when he's "unleashed" he's a detrement to the team and that he should have the ice time of a 5th Dman.

LOL @ the PK show. I think some are just bothered by his personality and that translates to how his game is viewed..similar to the non-fans that bash him for no reason.

That said... The Drew Doughty's of the world are free wheeling dmen who have not been held back...high risk, high reward player...yet he's the 2nd coming and PK needs to play within the confines of the system. Fair enough, but understand that he's being held back. Byfuglen is allowed to roam and do his thing. He will make errors, but the postitives of his game outweigh the negatives.

Anyways, perhaps that's why Emelin has been able to play like crap wtihout hearing about it. As crappy as he has played, he plays within the confines of the system so.....
more like, peeps seeoms enamored with his personnality more than his play.


Last edited by ECWHSWI: 02-28-2013 at 03:43 PM. Reason: it was on topic.
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02-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #516
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Except this has never happened and the exact opposite is the real truth.
It happened at certain points in the last 2 yaers.

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02-28-2013, 03:27 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
I'm a huge Subban fan but last 2 games we're bad for him. Bad decision making, keeping the puck for too long.

I hate that people can't admit that.
Of course people can admit that. You won't find anyone here who has said that PK has not had bad games. The Ottawa game was terrible. The Leafs game not so much. My issue is his mistakes seem to be exaggerated. Meanwhile Emelin's floundering in his own zone all year and nothing. Markov's clearly not what he used to be...nothing. Diaz is somehow our top D man yet has been weak at tiems on the PK which has resulted in goals.

He's supposed to be our best dman yet is being played like a 5th-6th dman and people are OK with that? LOL.

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02-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Of course people can admit that. You won't find anyone here who has said that PK has not had bad games. The Ottawa game was terrible. The Leafs game not so much. My issue is his mistakes seem to be exaggerated. Meanwhile Emelin's floundering in his own zone all year and nothing. Markov's clearly not what he used to be...nothing. Diaz is somehow our top D man yet has been weak at tiems on the PK which has resulted in goals.

He's supposed to be our best dman yet is being played like a 5th-6th dman and people are OK with that? LOL.
people are OK with winning.

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02-28-2013, 04:06 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
people are OK with winning.
I forgot...nothing matters as long as we're winning.

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02-28-2013, 04:09 PM
  #520
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I forgot...nothing matters as long as we're winning.
seriously...

care about anything on the Habs other than PK ?

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02-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #521
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I forgot...nothing matters as long as we're winning.
I think that's what most Habs fans without player agendas feel, yes.

Winning > anything else.

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02-28-2013, 04:29 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You misunderstand us.

I certainly do not believe that if Subban is "unleashed", he will be a liability to our team.

But I do believe that rearing the stallion allows him to reach his full potential, where as a Subban left to his own device might hit a wall sooner or later.
Ridiculous. First there is no hint that this was about to happen. Even if you're right and it was gonna happen, you adjust when that happens. You don't try to fix what's not broken. Just a ridiculous notion that you brought up, no offense.


Last edited by E = CH²: 02-28-2013 at 04:39 PM.
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02-28-2013, 04:38 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
I'm a huge Subban fan but last 2 games we're bad for him. Bad decision making, keeping the puck for too long.

I hate that people can't admit that.
He had 1 bad game against the senators. Last night he wasn't amazing but he wasn't bad either, he made one mistake early on.

But name one dman on the habs who hasn't had 2 bad games this season?

Also, I find that the habs are trying to fix what's not broken here, and they're doing more harm than good. The lowballing him into a holdout, the sub 20 min a game, no PK time, trying to change his character. So far I see a PK that seems at a loss on what he needs to do to regain the trust of the coaching staff and get his minutes back. If I were him I'd be confused too, this is kinda retarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
I think that's what most Habs fans without player agendas feel, yes.

Winning > anything else.
So if we're winning then that means that no mistakes are made and everyone is perfect ? That is simplistic at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I'm not impressed--yet. That holdout set him back. I don't want to hear about the 3 goals he's scored because his defensive play hasn't caught up.
The absolutely retarded lowballing hurt his season. Players who miss training camp tend to suck for the rest of the season. It's a testament to how good PK is that he's producing at a 50pts+ clip and is +3 despite the lack of trust from the coaching staff, the missed training camp + beginning of season.

He's quite special and it's unfortunate that the management and certains fans can't see it.

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02-28-2013, 04:40 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
He had 1 bad game against the senators. Last night he wasn't amazing but he wasn't bad either, he made one mistake early on.

But name one dman on the habs who hasn't had 2 bad games this season?

Also, I find that the habs are trying to fix what's not broken here, and they're doing more harm than good. The lowballing him into a holdout, the sub 20 min a game, no PK time, trying to change his character. So far I see a PK that seems at a loss on what he needs to do to regain the trust of the coaching staff and get his minutes back. If I were him I'd be confused too, this is kinda retarded.



So if we're winning then that means that no mistakes are made and everyone is perfect ? That is simplistic at best.
19:58 toi/g

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02-28-2013, 04:43 PM
  #525
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He was shaky last two games, but good in almost all the others..methinks

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