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Old
02-28-2013, 02:12 PM
  #751
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
We need more high-upside picks and less 'will be an NHLer' picks. I don't know a situation where I would willingly take Hartman ahead of those guys.

It's like being presented with Jensen, Saad, and Jaskin and taking Rakell. I wouldn't do it.
For me if I'm at 24 or 26 and the board looks like the one we keep discussing, I see about moving down.

The Habs for example have 3 2nd's. If we could entice them to move their pick (likely mid-late round) and Calgary's (early to mid round).

I like our chances better or getting a player. I know usually the idea of trading down is fantasy, but it happens (Detroit got 35th and 48th for 24th in 2011).

It just gives us more swings (allowing for a safer pick and a couple of home run swings).

Move down, hope you still have a shot at a falling Petan, take a Dickinson (this is a homerun swing for me) and a Kujawinksi or De La Rose with the remaining picks.

I think there is good value late into the 2nd or 3rd round this year (similar to 2011), so it may be a decent option.

In my eyes, I don't think it ever gets that far, because a high ranked faller will present itself to Gillis and Co. and it's the easy decision to make going with that guy.

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02-28-2013, 02:13 PM
  #752
Derp Kassian
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So who can we pick from
17-20?

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #753
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't think Gaunce was a 'will be an NHLer pick'. There was nobody with super high upside at our pick and Gaunce has 2nd line C, 60+ point upside. Hartman's best case scenario is a 30-40 point forward. That's a low upside for a 1st rounder.

I don't buy into size issues with a guy as talented as Petan. I question his fit for this organization (given the size of our forward core) but that's something you deal with later.
Not trying to stir stuff, but what makes Hartman a 30-40 point guy in your eyes?

Ryan Callahan seems to have the same size and production, and has become an NHL captain, top PKer, and bonafide 25-30 goal threat.

What separates him from Hartman? Or even a guy like Marchand, Gallagher etc.

I have the same questions about him that you do, just wondering why you limit his upside so much.

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:21 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Not trying to stir stuff, but what makes Hartman a 30-40 point guy in your eyes?

Ryan Callahan seems to have the same size and production, and has become an NHL captain, top PKer, and bonafide 25-30 goal threat.

What separates him from Hartman? Or even a guy like Marchand, Gallagher etc.

I have the same questions about him that you do, just wondering why you limit his upside so much.
I just don't like guys playing like that at that size. Callahan is a freak of a player to have gotten this far playing the style that he is at that size and he suffers for it with constant injuries. He did hit 65 point pace once but it seems like his ceiling is around 50-55 points with 1st unit PP time (that one year he was on pace for 60+ he only played 60 games). You can't overlook that he got a whole half of his goals on the PP in his two most productive years.

I think both Marchand and Gallagher are more talented and smarter. I think that gets forgotten with all the attention to their size and style of play.

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02-28-2013, 02:26 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I just don't like guys playing like that at that size. Callahan is a freak of a player to have gotten this far playing the style that he is at that size and he suffers for it with constant injuries. He did hit 65 point pace once but it seems like his ceiling is around 50-55 points with 1st unit PP time (that one year he was on pace for 60+ he only played 60 games). You can't overlook that he got a whole half of his goals on the PP in his two most productive years.

I think both Marchand and Gallagher are more talented and smarter. I think that gets forgotten with all the attention to their size and style of play.
Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

I'm actually hoping this is one of the guys that goes before we pick, so some team looking for the safe picks (Nashville usually) and we can get a slider.

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02-28-2013, 02:28 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

I'm actually hoping this is one of the guys that goes before we pick, so some team looking for the safe picks (Nashville usually) and we can get a slider.
I would hope so too. I also hope a guy like Mantha goes before we pick so we don't have to be faced with the decision of whether to pick him or not (could regret it big time either way).

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:29 PM
  #757
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On the topic of Hartman, has everyone seen this Red Line scouting report on him?

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02-28-2013, 02:42 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't think Gaunce was a 'will be an NHLer pick'. There was nobody with super high upside at our pick and Gaunce has 2nd line C, 60+ point upside. Hartman's best case scenario is a 30-40 point forward. That's a low upside for a 1st rounder.

I don't buy into size issues with a guy as talented as Petan. I question his fit for this organization (given the size of our forward core) but that's something you deal with later.
Sorry Tiranis, many had Gaunce projecting as an all situation 3rd liner, that maybe gets to what your talkin about if a lot of things break right. On averages though, he was slated as a 3rd liner. On fact, that's why many had an issue with the pick.

I can understand why you don't like a player like Hartman, but this is about you preference and it doesn't dispute the logic behind the pick. Hartman is viewed as the safer bet than the players mentioneid.

Size is a difference between players like Jensen and Petan. It's not quite a straight across comparison.

In the end, I think all those choices balance out, so there's no clear favourite. I just think Hartman is safer. Conservative approach.

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02-28-2013, 02:43 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Sorry Tiranis, many had Gaunce projecting as an all situation 3rd liner, that maybe gets to what your talkin about if a lot of things break right. On averages though, he was slated as a 3rd liner. On fact, that's why many had an issue with the pick.
Gaunce turned into a safe, 3rd liner prospect over the last 2 months of the season. He was projected as a Top 6, two-way centre pretty much his whole draft year. People were talking about him going Top 15 like Faksa did.

It's like judging Couturier based on what the scouting community thought of him after overanalyzing rather than what he always projected to be and now looks on track to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
IMO, this kid's potential is sky high. When it's all said and done, he could go as high as top 5 at the NHL draft. He can pass, he can score, he can hit, he can fight, he can do everything. I would say that he's the best forward prospect after Yakupov, Grigorenko and Forsberg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
Gaunce's game isn't all the different from Ryan Johanson, except I'd call RJ the better playmaker and Gaunce more of a goalscorer. I also think RJ would be a better skater but Gaunce looks to have a bit more bulk. I think Gaunce will be that guy on draft day who someone really likes and ends up going top 5-10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Agree. It's not really so much just his skating, but more so his ability to handle the puck at a higher speed too. He's not one of those effortless skaters, and it seems to effect his offensive game at times. He can fumble passes or lose control of the puck when things are unfolding a bit too fast.

But when the game slows down and he's able to get possession of the puck in the offensive end, he can really go to work and is a very complete offensive player. Big shot, like you said. But also seems to read and react to plays well and does a great job of using that size to get his teammates opportunities to score.

I think he has a ton of potential. But he's also got a relatively low complete bust factor. I could easily see him developing into a 30-30 guy at the next level...or a hard working third line center who chips in a 15-20 line every year.

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:49 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Gaunce turned into a safe, 3rd liner prospect over the last 2 months of the season. He was projected as a Top 6, two-way centre pretty much his whole draft year. People were talking about him going Top 15 like Faksa did.

It's like judging Couturier based on what the scouting community thought of him after overanalyzing rather than what he always projected to be and now looks on track to be.
It's just putting emphasis on the traits he had to work on at the time of the draft. His issues were skating agility, rushing with he puck, stick skills/dynamic component etc...

We all hope he turns into a top6, but those things can limit him from reaching that height. Logically, they erred on the side of caution, which isn't wrong.


On the quotes: Brock's comment on edit: handling the puck at higher speeds is a major factor in why scouts thought Gaunce was likely to top out as a 3rd liner.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 02-28-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 04:18 PM
  #761
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Thinking on his further, would it shock anyone if the Canucks actually traded down in such scenario? You could make a case for anyone of Hartman, Petan or Dickinson, but maybe they could get comparative value lower and still get more picks... Arsmaster makes sense here. If you don't get one of the more sought after players as a faller, maybe this is the best route to go?

I wouldn't mind taking on a De la Rose type as the 1st pick in order to take some other chances elsewhere.

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02-28-2013, 04:38 PM
  #762
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Depends whose available. If there aren't any fallers, I'd be fine with trading down with a team like Montreal.

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02-28-2013, 04:40 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Thinking on his further, would it shock anyone if the Canucks actually traded down in such scenario? You could make a case for anyone of Hartman, Petan or Dickinson, but maybe they could get comparative value lower and still get more picks... Arsmaster makes sense here. If you don't get one of the more sought after players as a faller, maybe this is the best route to go?

I wouldn't mind taking on a De la Rose type as the 1st pick in order to take some other chances elsewhere.
No, that's just the kind of boring, safe thing MG would do. The last three years we've always nabbed a higher ranked "faller". It's probably safe to assume that if a prospect like wasn't around he'd have traded back.

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:58 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
thefeebster, I know you watched some SEL games — did you happen to see Peter Cehlarik play? He's not ranked in any of the scouting reports so far but he's producing very good numbers in the SEL (3goals and 2 assists in 5 games). Has good size and is apparently skilled, not sure about his skating.
Nope have not had a chance to catch any lately. I only know what i've read on the main forum. But I am very intrigued. Late birthday (arsmaster will like that), good size, and producing at an incredible rate for someone on the 4th line. From his photos and interviews, looks like there is definitely room for some growth. A lulea fan said the most impressive thing about him was his hands and his understanding for the game. Peter himself said he has a lot of work to do and especially work on his defensive game, feels Lulea is a great defensive team to learn from and wants to remain there for the time being.

Tried to do some internet sleuthing.

Jackpot [Forgive google translate... some translations are not even english]:

Quote:
Lulea Hockey juniors impressed before the eyes of NHL scouts.
And afterwards was one of them into a chat.

Vancouver had two mighty men visiting Coop Arena on Saturday. Piteå son Lars Lindgren and Vancouver's chief scout from North America Dave Gagner (father of Edmonton Oilers Sam Gagner). Their case was really about Frölunda Hill Henry Tömmernes, which is draftad the NHL club.

But Canucksscouterna even got to see two other large impress.

Swiss slopes Dean Kukan, 19 years.

- I like the slopes are quiet. He does not get stressed out in their own zone and is nice and calm with the puck. He's a good skater and give teammates time by pulling on the opponent before he fits. Since he also has offensive qualities, says Lars Lindgren.

Slovakian striker Peter Cehlarik, 17 years.

- An interesting player who we have not had time to see much yet, says Lars Lindgren.

- I receive daily calls about Dean and Peter. Peter was recently chosen as the best player during a U18 national team tournament with Slovakia, says their agent Louis Liesch to Norrbotten Courier.

Much time
Dean Kukan made ​​his tenth league match against Frolunda, got to play 21:12
minutes and got off the match with +2 plus / minus statistics.

Peter Cehlarik made his second match, which meant home debut. He accounted for two assists and was +3 in the fiery fourth chain on his 10:06 minutes on ice.

Lars Lindgren and Dave Gagner also brought odraftade Dean Kukan to junior dressing room to talk future with Lulea hill.

- I think he is doing consistently good. He keeps his eyes up and see what happens on the ice. A fun player to study, says Lindgren.

Will you recommend Kukan for your organization?

- Now he has come up a little late, but I absolutely believe that he will be taken in any of the rounds. We'll see what happens, says Lindgren.

- Sure it's fun for the scouts looking at me and the game felt good. But I do not think the NHL and become draftad now. I try to keep my focus on the here and now with Luleå Hockey, says Dean Kukan, who recently signed a two-year contract with Lulea.

- I know there are many scouts watching, but I try to keep my focus on the game. My goal this season is to play for me a first-team contract with Lulea for next season, says Peter Cehlarik.
http://www.kuriren.nu/nyheter/defaul...icleid=6749900

I imagine half of you just googled Dean Kukan like i did.

Next: a good yet unrelated read on defensemen drafted out of the CHL (http://mlmuse.blogspot.ca/2013/02/ri...ny-impact.html)

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:13 AM
  #765
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Nice find.

Love me some late birthdays.

Kukan sounds like he has Tanev like qualities.

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03-01-2013, 09:10 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Nope have not had a chance to catch any lately. I only know what i've read on the main forum. But I am very intrigued. Late birthday (arsmaster will like that), good size, and producing at an incredible rate for someone on the 4th line. From his photos and interviews, looks like there is definitely room for some growth. A lulea fan said the most impressive thing about him was his hands and his understanding for the game. Peter himself said he has a lot of work to do and especially work on his defensive game, feels Lulea is a great defensive team to learn from and wants to remain there for the time being.

Tried to do some internet sleuthing.

Jackpot [Forgive google translate... some translations are not even english]:

http://www.kuriren.nu/nyheter/defaul...icleid=6749900

I imagine half of you just googled Dean Kukan like i did.

Next: a good yet unrelated read on defensemen drafted out of the CHL (http://mlmuse.blogspot.ca/2013/02/ri...ny-impact.html)
Interesting that it seems to translate "defenseman" to "hill" and "slopes".

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03-01-2013, 10:23 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Interesting that it seems to translate "defenseman" to "hill" and "slopes".
When you go to scandinavia it becomes apparent why hill = defense. Not exactly hilly until you get to Norway. If you have the Russians invading every 50 years and before that the vikings on the other side. You look for hills where you can find them. :-)

Not saying that has anything to do with the translation but ....yeah that's my wild guess.

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03-01-2013, 07:01 PM
  #768
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If you want to watch Gauthier he's playing on Sportsnet right now.

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:59 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Kukan sounds like he has Tanev like qualities.
That's what I thought when i read some of his scouting reports. Only watched one Swiss WJC game this time around, so i didn't get a good look at him there.

Fits what seems to be the mold of the prospect defensemen we are developing, smooth skating, smart defenders who can also move the puck quickly. Also fits the overage, late blooming/developing kind of prospect the Canucks are fond of.

The draft seems so far away, and i find it crazy being all in one day. Talk about an emotional ride. I like the first night being able to digest the pick before day 2, which is way too frantic. I wonder how they are going to show it on TSN.

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03-04-2013, 01:22 PM
  #770
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Quote:
Long long day RT @Zeisberger: All seven rounds of NHL draft will be held on the same day - June 30 in NJ. #NHL
https://twitter.com/hosea24hours/sta...57605901963264

And this:

Quote:
The 2013 NHL Draft Lottery, to be held this year on Monday, April 29, will be the first in NHL history where all 14 clubs not qualifying for the Stanley Cup Playoffs, or the clubs that have acquired the first-round drafting positions of those non-playoff clubs, will have a chance at winning the right to the first overall selection.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=658503&cmpid=nhl-twt

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #771
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New red line report. Has Nic Petan as one of his risers. Some kind words for Tambellini too, could he be the latest BC product that we don't draft that has everyone here moaning and groaning about?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/1955773/

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Old
03-04-2013, 05:03 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by luongoisdaman View Post
https://twitter.com/hosea24hours/sta...57605901963264
Long long day RT @Zeisberger: All seven rounds of NHL draft will be held on the same day - June 30 in NJ. #NHL
good imho. too drawn out on day 1 of a normal draft.

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03-04-2013, 05:06 PM
  #773
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good imho. too drawn out on day 1 of a normal draft.
I like to make an event out of it though I guess this year it'll be a coffee and pyjamas event.

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03-04-2013, 05:27 PM
  #774
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I like to make an event out of it though I guess this year it'll be a coffee and pyjamas event.
Same as well. The 1st is a bit long, with the intro, the speech, then waiting for each prospect to walk up, then photos, then the interview. If they can make that part more efficient, I really like a two day event from a fan perspective. You get the excitement of waiting for your pick, the night to digest what happened and discuss. Without this, we move on to the 2nd round and pick within the next 20 minutes of our first pick because of how fast those 2nd-7th rounds go. Feels too hectic for me, imagine management talking trades and scouts arguing for their selections!

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03-04-2013, 05:30 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Same as well. The 1st is a bit long, with the intro, the speech, then waiting for each prospect to walk up, then photos, then the interview. If they can make that part more efficient, I really like a two day event from a fan perspective. You get the excitement of waiting for your pick, the night to digest what happened and discuss. Without this, we move on to the 2nd round and pick within the next 20 minutes of our first pick because of how fast those 2nd-7th rounds go. Feels too hectic for me, imagine management talking trades and scouts arguing for their selections!
To save time it wouldn't bother me if they left out congratulating whoever the Cup champs are

Regarding the second bold, I didn't even think of it from that standpoint. I wonder how many mistakes will be made?

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