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Jake Gardiner Discussion Thread

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Old
02-28-2013, 03:15 PM
  #251
Duke Silver
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Gardiner should be up by now. The honeymoon with Kostka is over. Can't believe there's people who think we're better off with Kostka over Gardiner.

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02-28-2013, 03:18 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
there is not point in debating with you
True, there is no point arguing with a guy that doesn't understand team decisions on player development. Rielly probably could have made the team out of camp, but given the short training camp, and that he had already spent half a year in junior, they deemed it was best for his development to have him continue to develop in the juniors. Again read the article for some.

He could have played lights out, but the decision seemed to be made when Burke said Rielly would not be recalled to the Leafs from the World's if the season started then. Instead of jerking him up and down,(we've seen enough of this with our prospects) they get a full season in to him after a injury plagued one, and now if The Leafs decide to, recall him to the big team, he is far better prepared to handle it.

Player development.

Same thing they are doing with Gardiner at the moment, however If Gardiner doesn't start picking up his game, Rielly will be a logical option and may even vault over him in the Leafs D's pecking order.

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02-28-2013, 03:39 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
If Gardiner was an NHL ready defenceman and better than Kostka, there is no reason he wouldnt be on the team today?
Gardiner looked better than Kostka on the Marlies, has looked better in the NHL last year. The team is somewhat handcuffed in moves they can make, it's the only reason he's not on the team now.

All the power to Kostka, he's proven himself and earned a spot in the show but let's not pretend Kostka and Gardiner are on the same level.

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02-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Gardiner should be up by now. The honeymoon with Kostka is over. Can't believe there's people who think we're better off with Kostka over Gardiner.
The problem isn't Kostka its actually Liles and Komisarek and CBA roster limits.

Leafs are at the max limit of 23 bodies with Komisarek, Liles and Steckel already in the pressbox.

Kostka is playing ahead of Liles and Komisarek presently and if Gardiner were to be recalled today it would require Leafs placing someone of waivers to make roster space.

Since Komisarek has a NMC and can't be waived that leaves only Liles..

Are you suggesting recalling and playing Gardiner, moving Kostka to the pressbox and Liles onto waivers?

I have no doubt Nonis is working the phones trying to trade Komisarek or Liles to make room for Gardiner, but that is easier said then done.

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Last edited by Mess: 02-28-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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02-28-2013, 03:47 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Are you suggesting recalling and playing Gardiner, moving Kostka to the pressbox and Liles onto waivers?
No. I'm suggesting placing Kostka on waivers and promoting Gardiner. Liles and Komisarek can continue to sit in the pressbox.

What's that mantra you keep repeating ad-nauseum? "Play the kids and live with the consequences", right?

Gardiner is many times over the better skater and passer that Kostka is and a much bigger powerplay threat. He's also the best dman on our team at entering the opposition zone, something we've had issues with lately.

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02-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
No. I'm suggesting placing Kostka on waivers and promoting Gardiner. Liles and Komisarek can continue to sit in the pressbox.

What's that mantra you keep repeating ad-nauseum? "Play the kids and live with the consequences", right?
Well you have to talk to Carlyle then and not complain about message board posters opinions in the thread.

Carlyle is playing Kostka and benching Liles and Komisarek, so logical reason suggest HE believes Kostka is > either of those in the pressbox.

Taking a player out of the line-up and tossing him away for no reason ahead of players Carlyle chooses not to play instead doesn't make a lot of sense. Does it?

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02-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
Gardiner looked better than Kostka on the Marlies, has looked better in the NHL last year. The team is somewhat handcuffed in moves they can make, it's the only reason he's not on the team now.

All the power to Kostka, he's proven himself and earned a spot in the show but let's not pretend Kostka and Gardiner are on the same level.
It was the point I was trying to make, that there are reasons that an inferior will be on the NHL roster over a superior player.

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02-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #258
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Don't know why people are on Kostka. Kostka has been very good.

Holzer's the one who's struggling badly. He's the one Jake should have replaced already.

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02-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well you have to talk to Carlyle then and not complain about message board posters opinions in the thread.

Carlyle is playing Kostka and benching Liles and Komisarek, so logical reason suggest HE believes Kostka is > either of those in the pressbox.

Taking a player out of the line-up and tossing him away for no reason ahead of players Carlyle chooses not to play instead doesn't make a lot of sense. Does it?
Gardiner has been playing very well for the Marlies and deserves to be on this roster. He was certainly out-playing Kostka prior to his injury. The only logical reason he is not, at the moment, is because he is the only waiver exempt player of the bunch. You're not going to sit there and tell me Kostka is a better player than Gardiner, are you? And don't sit there using the "coach says" foolishness. We don't have the luxury of conversing with Carlyle so provide your own opinion.

This has nothing to do with Liles and Komisarek. As I said, they can continue to sit in the pressbox. Gardiner was sent down on a conditioning stint and has not been brought up due to the logjam of NHL contracts, as you said. But I would much prefer Kostka be a casualty of the numbers game than Gardiner.

I will not lament the loss of Mike Kostka from our organization when we have a much better option on the farm who made the all-rookie squad last season. The honeymoon is over. The team will not miss him.

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02-28-2013, 04:13 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Don't know why people are on Kostka. Kostka has been very good.

Holzer's the one who's struggling badly. He's the one Jake should have replaced already.
I was just picking someone to illustrate a point, feel free to replace Kostka with Holzer in my post.

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02-28-2013, 04:18 PM
  #261
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If someone has to be demoted its obviously Holzer.

Kostka has earned his right to stay, as has Mark Fraser. Reduce Kostka's minutes and replace Holzer with gardiner.

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02-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #262
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Anyone have Gardiner's cell number? Maybe someone could call him up as requested. lol

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02-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
If someone has to be demoted its obviously Holzer.

Kostka has earned his right to stay, as has Mark Fraser. Reduce Kostka's minutes and replace Holzer with gardiner.
Kostka and Gardiner's games are more interchangeable, though, as they are both offensive defencemen.

We know Carlyle likes his rough-and-tumble defencemen. You put Gardiner and Kostka in a line-up together and suddenly we too many of the same defenceman on the team. Holzer provides physicality and PK abilities that Kostka does not. He rounds out our defence better and plays more of a Carlyle-style.

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02-28-2013, 04:24 PM
  #264
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Our D can't start a breakout. The only one who is making breakout passes / stretch passes is Gunnarsson.

No wonder we got as few shots as we got last night. That's why we seriously need someone like Gardiner to carry the puck out.

Need him up ASAP.

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02-28-2013, 04:24 PM
  #265
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I believe it is Nonis's responsibility to manage his assets and while Gardiner should and could help the Leafs right now the problem becomes a numbers game. Nonis needs to get players or pics back for others to bring him back up. I believe Liles is easily worth a second round pic, Komo, anything we get back would be a bonus. This has been a player that has taken up a roster spot over the last few years and wasted it. I would say give it until the end of the month and I think it will al sort itself out.

Why this management group did not go after Schultz harder is beyond me. He could easily slide into our top 4 right now and I bet we would have a couple of more wins because of it.

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02-28-2013, 04:25 PM
  #266
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I was under the assumption we are in a playoff position due to guys like Koska, Fraser, and Holzer.

Reading this thread, you'd think our coaching staff and GM didn't know who are the best players to give us a chance to win.

Armchair amateur GM's.

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02-28-2013, 04:30 PM
  #267
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Why this management group did not go after Schultz harder is beyond me. He could easily slide into our top 4 right now and I bet we would have a couple of more wins because of it.
The Leafs went after Schultz VERY hard. Just because he didn't sign with us, doesn't mean enough effort wasn't made.

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02-28-2013, 04:32 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
I was just picking someone to illustrate a point, feel free to replace Kostka with Holzer in my post.
ok.

Gardiner for Holzer is definitely a switch that should have been made already. Holzer is struggling badly, while Gardiner is fantastic, and provides much needed puckmoving to what has suddenly become a very plodding dcorps.

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02-28-2013, 04:32 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
The Leafs went after Schultz VERY hard. Just because he didn't sign with us, doesn't mean enough effort wasn't made.
I got the impression they were backing away because he wanted top four min and were weary of tampering charges. They could have done more.

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02-28-2013, 04:33 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I was under the assumption we are in a playoff position due to guys like Koska, Fraser, and Holzer.
us being in a playoff position doesn't mean that everyone is playing well.

Kostka and Fraser are playing well, Holzer isn't.

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02-28-2013, 04:33 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I was under the assumption we are in a playoff position due to guys like Koska, Fraser, and Holzer.

Reading this thread, you'd think our coaching staff and GM didn't know who are the best players to give us a chance to win.

Armchair amateur GM's.
They have played well and had their moments. However, you have to adapt as situation demands it. Against opponents such as Montreal and Ottawa, who are good skating team, you need more finess than toughness.

Liles and Gardiner, without a doubt makes a huge difference last night.

Against tough teams, I have no problem playing Holzer and Frazer.

Watch the game again from last night and pay attention to the trouble Kostka had along the boards.

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02-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
us being in a playoff position doesn't mean that everyone is playing well.

Kostka and Fraser are playing well, Holzer isn't.
I don't see this as being a panic situation, if the linesman would learn to drop the puck, many of our fans could be celebrating today. Bi-polar Leafs nation.

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02-28-2013, 04:37 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by fahad203 View Post
They have played well and had their moments. However, you have to adapt as situation demands it. Against opponents such as Montreal and Ottawa, who are good skating team, you need more finess than toughness.

Liles and Gardiner, without a doubt makes a huge difference last night.

Against tough teams, I have no problem playing Holzer and Frazer.

Watch the game again from last night and pay attention to the trouble Kostka had along the boards.
We need safe minutes from players, not highlight reel end to end rushes of pinching, this is what Gardiner is proficient at doing right now. When eakins gives the word he has snapped out of it, he will be called up on merit, not because he is some star defender based on one year of good play.

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02-28-2013, 04:39 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
us being in a playoff position doesn't mean that everyone is playing well.

Kostka and Fraser are playing well, Holzer isn't.
Neither is Kostka.

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02-28-2013, 04:39 PM
  #275
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One thing Carlyle really wants to see with his D is playing on their natural side.

He has Dion playing the left side and he is so much better on it than RH

So if you look at it who does Gardiner replace?

Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Fraser

All the 3 lefty shots. I don't see Phaneuf or Fraser coming out of the line up so you would have to sit Gunnar which you could and let him heal his injury but then you already have 2 D in the press box.

They need to move Liles then its easier to move Gardiner in as it opens up a roster spot.

Until then I don't see Gardiner up but they could use his mobility on the backend

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