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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:36 PM
  #126
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Dont even try to explain that here. Its not worth the time.
Is it acceptable when weak goals and sub-standard performances go on for two weeks?

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02-28-2013, 06:40 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Is it acceptable when weak goals and sub-standard performances go on for two weeks?
Its not acceptable under any circumstances, it is understandable when the whole team is playing like **** though.

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02-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #128
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Its not acceptable under any circumstances, it is understandable when the whole team is playing like **** though.
The team isn't playing like ****, though. Their offense has improved and they look pretty good on defense. They aren't dominant, they still have holes and deficiencies, but they're generally good enough much of the time. Bryz's performance independent of the team is noticeably worse than it was to start the season.

Using the team as a crutch to explain Bryz's declining stats is a cop out. Like blaming Briere's decline entirely on his linemates, when it's clear he's losing a step on his own accord.

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02-28-2013, 07:55 PM
  #129
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The Flyers might give up some quality chances, but they're 7th in least amount of shots allowed per game, 1st(!) in blocked shots and a surprising 11th in penalty killing. As a whole, they haven't been bad enough defensively lately to be allowing 3 goals a game and blowing it off as ****** team play.

They're top-5 in giveaways however, have had to the most powerplays against and are bottom-5 in face-off percentage. All things that could use some improvement for sure. Still, a glaring stat through 22 games seems to be Bryzgalov's .902 SV%. Hopefully Bryz can pull of a solid string of games coming up here and steal a win or two for the team. He has played A LOT though, so there's always that 'excuse' that could actually be reasonable considering he's 32 years old.

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02-28-2013, 08:25 PM
  #130
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Yeah, he gets let out to dry at times. But independent of that, he's made his own mistakes where the team isn't to blame. But it's not like he's well rested and fresh, either.

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02-28-2013, 09:12 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Dont even try to explain that here. Its not worth the time.
i know, you're right.
i bet many here just look at the NASH stats & make their conclusions. I watch the games. Rinne is great, no doubt. Bad games happen to every goalie. Every goalie makes puck handling errors. his blunder last night was 10 times worse than when Kimmo dumped the puck back to Bryz, who then shot the puck off Clarkson. Rinne was the only Predator involved:
http://video.predators.nhl.com/video...ed-share-video

every goalie gives up this type of goal, too:
http://video.predators.nhl.com/video...ed-share-video

Bryz has let those in, too. But, I think his overall body of work so far this year is more than acceptable

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02-28-2013, 09:18 PM
  #132
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If .900 is more than acceptable, the standards are pretty low.

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02-28-2013, 09:21 PM
  #133
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Please please stop talking about kimmo playing the puck back to the goalie. He has done it several times when pressured usually during a power play. Unreal how someone tries to blame a goal against on a defender playing the puck halfway down the rink

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02-28-2013, 09:25 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Please please stop talking about kimmo playing the puck back to the goalie. He has done it several times when pressured usually during a power play. Unreal how someone tries to blame a goal against on a defender playing the puck halfway down the rink
Timonen practically stuffed the puck in his own net there. 100% Timonen's fault.

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02-28-2013, 09:54 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i just watched Rinne give up 4 in the 1st period & 5 total, pulled after the 2nd vs ANA. & 1 of them was a stickhandling blunder by him. was not back to back for NASH. bad games happen. to every goaile.
Pekka Rinne: .919
Ilya Bryzgalov: .902

It seems one of the two goalies has had more terrible games than the other. Oh nevermind, it's not Bryz's fault, it never is. Kimmo Timonen is responsible for that save % difference.

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02-28-2013, 10:02 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
stop talking about kimmo playing the puck back to the goalie.
Flyers bad goal: defenseman getting pressured, dumps the puck back to the goalie who's getting pressured, goalie shoots puck off other team = goal

you want to say that's solely Bryz's fault, that's your opinion. however, had Kimmo not dumped the puck to Bryz, Bryz cannot make the mistake he did. Shared blame: 2 Flyers involved.

Rinne's bad goal: he was the ONLY NASH player involved. Solely his fault, no doubt. Goalies make puckhandling blunders sometime.

fact of hockey. accept it. i think Bryxz has had 1 that resulted in a goal against this year

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02-28-2013, 10:04 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i bet many here just look at the NASH stats & make their conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Pekka Rinne: .919
Ilya Bryzgalov: .902
It seems one of the two goalies has had more terrible games than the other.
and there you go .......

the difference can only be the goalies, right ?

NASH can't possibly be a better defensive team overall, than the Flyers, could they ?
NASH & the Flyers must be 100% equal defensively, regarding style, backchecking, turnovers, guys left undefended, and where the SOG against come from, right ?

yup, those stats prove that conclusively ...

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02-28-2013, 10:41 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
and there you go .......

the difference can only be the goalies, right ?

NASH can't possibly be a better defensive team overall, than the Flyers, could they ?
NASH & the Flyers must be 100% equal defensively, regarding style, backchecking, turnovers, guys left undefended, and where the SOG against come from, right ?

yup, those stats prove that conclusively ...
I would agree with you if we were talking about Leighton, or Boucher, or pretty much any goalie that makes an average or below average salary. However, Bryz was signed to a 9 year 50 million dollar deal because he was supposed to be good enough to compensate for breakdowns that occur due to our up tempo system. Obviously he wasn't expected to save every breakway or coverage breakdown, but he was supposed to help on some of them.

You keep defending Bryz by saying he shouldn't be blamed for those goals that another average goalie probably wouldn't be expected to save. Well guess what. BRYZ IS NOT BEING PAID LIKE AN AVERAGE GOALIE. I know you don't like to bring money or cap implications into discussions about on ice play, but in the case of Bryzgalov the issues are inseparable. In order to justify his cap hit, Bryz HAS to make some of those saves, he HAS not not let up soft goals, and he HAS to do better than what your average goalie would.

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02-28-2013, 11:03 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Flyers bad goal: defenseman getting pressured, dumps the puck back to the goalie who's getting pressured, goalie shoots puck off other team = goal

you want to say that's solely Bryz's fault, that's your opinion. however, had Kimmo not dumped the puck to Bryz, Bryz cannot make the mistake he did. Shared blame: 2 Flyers involved.

Rinne's bad goal: he was the ONLY NASH player involved. Solely his fault, no doubt. Goalies make puckhandling blunders sometime.

fact of hockey. accept it. i think Bryxz has had 1 that resulted in a goal against this year
If Kimmo is at fault for that goal against, then Bryz is at fault for every turnover in the offensive zone that comes after he gives someone the puck.

Edit: Oops. Defensive zone.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 03-01-2013 at 02:06 AM.
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03-01-2013, 12:18 AM
  #140
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Surprised by the people that want Boosh to start VS Pitt. We need division wins more than anything right now.

Start Boosh VS OTT and give Bryz the rest.

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03-01-2013, 01:00 AM
  #141
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If it's 2 days off after Washington then 2 days off after Ottawa, Bryzgalov should be fine to play both. Boucher would have been nice to play against Washington...

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03-01-2013, 01:50 AM
  #142
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.900 is an acceptable number for some.
LOL.

You dont carry a .900 number(the mendoza line for goalies) if you give up a bad goal every now and then or have an off night every now and then. .900 happens when you put up pedestrian numbers for long stretches or you play inconsistant for a good stretch. Which Bryzgalov has since the beginning of Feb.
But if you want to blame the team for his play, then we can say the team was the reason he was near .920 in January. Cant have it both ways.

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03-01-2013, 01:57 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
.900 is an acceptable number for some.
LOL.

You dont carry a .900 number(the mendoza line for goalies) if you give up a bad goal every now and then or have an off night every now and then. .900 happens when you put up pedestrian numbers for long stretches or you play inconsistant for a good stretch. Which Bryzgalov has since the beginning of Feb.
But if you want to blame the team for his play, then we can say the team was the reason he was near .920 in January. Cant have it both ways.
I don't know how one blames the team. It doesn't add up; logically he'd do his best while the team is best, if he depends on them that much. However, he did his best when they were downright terrible and is doing worse now that they're better. I don't see how that works out.

It's more likely he's A) exhausted from the hard schedule B) simply an average goalie, or C) a combination of the two.

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03-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #144
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I would agree with you if we were talking about Leighton, or Boucher, or pretty much any goalie that makes an average or below average salary.
my point was that people here talk about Rinne [my guess] based off the numbers only, and conclude that NASH & the Flyers are 100% identical defensively - except for the goalies.

my other point was that even "super goalies" like Rinne have off games, get pulled & make awful blunders resulting in goals against. every goalie.

yet, some people around here act like Bryz is the ONLY goalie that happens to. and that, because Homer gave him a huge contract, that Bryz should now be expected to be non-human, and never make the mistakes that i've seen Hank, Schneider, Quick & Rinne make. it simply doesnt work that way, they ALL will have bad games & goals against.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Bryz was signed to a 9 year 50 million dollar deal because he was supposed to be good enough to compensate for breakdowns that occur due to our up tempo system.
Homer said that when ? I missed that one.

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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
You keep defending Bryz by saying he shouldn't be blamed for those goals that another average goalie probably wouldn't be expected to save.
you are FLAT OUT wrong. i've blamed him plenty this year & for things even in games they won. stop inventing things.

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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Well guess what. BRYZ IS NOT BEING PAID LIKE AN AVERAGE GOALIE.
go talk to Homer. if your theory was right, they could pay Boosh 10 million a year & he would have those lofty "expectations", right ?

my last point to you is: i have blamed Bryz plenty, even for some of his comments this year, even in wins.

BUT, overall, he's been excellent in most games, ok in a few & had a couple sub-par games & i'm not worried about the goaltending this year.

FAR more concerned with the lack of effort form the rest of the team in many games this year, even after Giroux called them out for it.

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03-01-2013, 11:08 AM
  #145
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Bryz was playing very well when the offense wasn't producing. His save % was around .920, I believe. Since the offense has come alive, Bryz' play has worsened (with the exception of the 7-0 win over the Isles). Connection?

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03-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Flyers bad goal: defenseman getting pressured, dumps the puck back to the goalie who's getting pressured, goalie shoots puck off other team = goal

you want to say that's solely Bryz's fault, that's your opinion. however, had Kimmo not dumped the puck to Bryz, Bryz cannot make the mistake he did. Shared blame: 2 Flyers involved.

Rinne's bad goal: he was the ONLY NASH player involved. Solely his fault, no doubt. Goalies make puckhandling blunders sometime.

fact of hockey. accept it. i think Bryxz has had 1 that resulted in a goal against this year
Claude giroux is being pressured, passed the puck to hartnell. Hartnell falls down and the other team scores on a breakaway. Does giroux share the blame?

Go back and rewatch the play. Bryz had a good amount of time and froze with the puck for a little time. Bryz still could have dumped the puck behind the net but still forced the play. It was all Bryz fault. It was a horrible play on his part. Kimmo and other defenders have done it multiple times in the NHL. In no way is it the defenders fault because he plays the puck back to his goalie when pressured.

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03-01-2013, 11:22 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by ClarkeRuled View Post
Bryz was playing very well when the offense wasn't producing. His save % was around .920, I believe. Since the offense has come alive, Bryz' play has worsened (with the exception of the 7-0 win over the Isles). Connection?
you would think "the Flyers are paying less attention to Defense" ... but that was not possible.

Bryz has had a few games where he didn't look super-human, like he did most of his first 15 games. Ive seen that happen to Rinne, Hank, Quick etc etc etc ..... it happens.

goaltending is not our issue.

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03-01-2013, 11:30 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
my other point was that even "super goalies" like Rinne have off games, get pulled & make awful blunders resulting in goals against. every goalie.

yet, some people around here act like Bryz is the ONLY goalie that happens to. and that, because Homer gave him a huge contract, that Bryz should now be expected to be non-human, and never make the mistakes that i've seen Hank, Schneider, Quick & Rinne make. it simply doesnt work that way, they ALL will have bad games & goals against.
No one is expecting Bryz to be "non-human", but you continually ignore that expectations are directly related to the player's cap hit after the contract is signed. There is a pretty clear reason why players like Chris Drury, Scott Gomez and Wade Redden have been bought out. They played at levels indicative of a lower cap hit and, in a salary cap world, you cannot afford to overpay an individual for a mediocre or sub-par performance. This is why Briere will likely be bought out.

A great goalie has more consistent performances than a good goalie and the overall numbers reflect that. Rinne may play an awful game but, at the end of the year, his numbers have always suggested that he is in the top tier of goalies in the NHL. Bryz is being paid to play like he belongs in that tier. And, regardless of how you or I believe he is playing, if his numbers continue to be average for NHL goaltenders by the end of next season, the Flyers will have no choice but to buy him out. Teams cannot afford to pay average players star salaries.

This season has a special circumstance, though: Bryz is being overworked. Next year will be a very important year for Bryz.

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03-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post

Homer said that when ? I missed that one.


go talk to Homer. if your theory was right, they could pay Boosh 10 million a year & he would have those lofty "expectations", right ?
These comments show a fundamental lack of understanding about how contracts, money, and expectations work in the real world let alone the NHL. I now realize how futile it is trying to make any points to you. This is what I get for feeding the troll.

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03-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #150
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This season has a special circumstance, though: Bryz is being overworked. Next year will be a very important year for Bryz.
That's why I think the Flyers will save on the buyout this year - Holmgren has essentially done nothing to improve the backup goaltending to allow for Bryz to take a much needed breather. I think it's pretty clear that Bryz has been rather sluggish as of late and he needs a break. The problem though is that there aren't any good backup goaltenders available right now and the Flyers are stuck with the mess that is known as Brian Boucher.

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