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Leighton and Sestito (Leighton cleared waivers, sent to AHL; Sestito to Vancouver)

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Old
02-28-2013, 05:03 PM
  #76
Coffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Only one thing on this earth is more painful than that fact.



Excuse me, I'm going to lay my head on the railroad tracks and wait for the Acela Express.

Someone should be tarred and feathered for that abomination...

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02-28-2013, 05:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I'm saying it is bad asset management. If I pay one dollar for a brownie and turn around and sell it for 80 cents, that is bad management. You act like a 6th round pick is worthless. It mostly is. But it is not always. Many players have been successes in late rounds - Halak, Elliot, Tocchet, Rinne, Alferedsson, et al. Sure it's rare, but it is still posible. You act like these picks are meaningless.
That's all well and good but that is not what we are talking about. Someone said they would rather have waited and traded Chaput for something else or gotten a sixth round pick for him. I am saying that waiting may have left us with nothing, just like the 6th rounder could have left us with nothing. If you traded Chaput for a sixth rounder and that guy never makes the NHL, that is less valuable than Sestito. That is more likely than getting even a full time NHLer, let alone a good one.

So by saying the Flyers somehow would have been better off with a sixth rounder, is to say that a bird in the hand is worth less than two in the bush. Or to use your brownie analogy, if I gave you a choice between a brownie recipe that may turn out to be a brownie that tastes good if you follow the directions perfectly and everything goes 100% correct and you use the right oven and so forth or a brownie, I think you would probably chose the brownie.

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There were people that didn't mind getting rid of a first rounder for Steve Emminger because we already had one that round. That logic baffles me. Chaput is nothing special. He may play in the NHL he may not. That possibility is still greater than a player who is not in the NHL. Holmgren exhibits bad asset management more than I'd like him too - the Versteeg deal for example. I recognize that Chaput will never be an All-Star. But he COULD end up being serviceable. I just wish Holmgren managed assets better. Many rich people are rich because they value every dollar. There is something to be said for that. Buy low sell high. It's basic business.
I am confused by this. Eminger is a different story, not even close to what we are talking about. You are saying the possibility of Chaput to play in the NHL is greater that a player who is not in the NHL (presumably Sestito)? Sestito has already played int he NHL, and likely will in the future, albeit probably not for the Flyers. Chaput may never step foot on NHL ice, but somehow is more likely to be a fringe NHLer than a current NHLer?

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02-28-2013, 05:16 PM
  #78
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Leighton is going to lead us back to the Cup one day. I can feel it in my plums.

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02-28-2013, 05:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Coffe View Post
Someone should be tarred and feathered for that abomination...
Then tied to a baboon and thrown into a furnace, Eastern Roman style.

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02-28-2013, 05:20 PM
  #80
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Brings our cap space to $2,922,211. This is also without pronger on LTIR, which you have to think is bound to happen sooner or later. Maybe they did this because a move is coming?

With Pronger on LTIR, that'd bring our cap space to $7,857,925, when Meszaros comes back.

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02-28-2013, 05:30 PM
  #81
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Sad to see Sestito go, he had a couple of good games here. Pure enforcers are not needed at all anymore so there ya go. He was probably the better tough guy that was on this team in a long while but like I said, they are not needed anymore.

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02-28-2013, 05:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Leighton is going to lead us back to the Cup one day. I can feel it in my plums.
This just made me laugh so hard. I don't know why.

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02-28-2013, 05:34 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Brings our cap space to $2,922,211. This is also without pronger on LTIR, which you have to think is bound to happen sooner or later. Maybe they did this because a move is coming?

With Pronger on LTIR, that'd bring our cap space to $7,857,925, when Meszaros comes back.
I think this may simply be a precaution against bonus overages (Schenn and Couturier) hurting their cap situation for next year, but I'm not too clear on that.

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02-28-2013, 05:52 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post

So by saying the Flyers somehow would have been better off with a sixth rounder, is to say that a bird in the hand is worth less than two in the bush. Or to use your brownie analogy, if I gave you a choice between a brownie recipe that may turn out to be a brownie that tastes good if you follow the directions perfectly and everything goes 100% correct and you use the right oven and so forth or a brownie, I think you would probably chose the brownie.

I appreciate the Brownie illustration! It helps me out. I agree with this analogy, except I would change it a bit to say that the existing brownie is dry and old because I don't think Sestito's potential was ever very high. So it might be more tempting to take the recipe if you know the brownie you have is not going to be great. But I agree - better to have a brownie period than only have the possiblity, especially when it is remote. I agree - better to have Sestito than a 6th round pick.

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02-28-2013, 05:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh ok. Good point. Homer made a mistake because he could have had a pick that could have turned into a guy who is an extra forward. Instead he got a player that was an extra forward. Thanks for clearing that up for me. But it is a non-issue so by saying that it makes your statement even more true and helps clear up this problem I am having with valuing one fringe NHLer extra forward against a pick that hopefully maybe one day possibly will be a fringe NHLer extra forward.
Hmm by this logic though, what if you increase the value of both. Would you say its a good investment to trade say a 2nd round pick for a 12th forward? By this logic, that would be a good trade since that 12th forward is an NHL player and the 2nd hasnt played in the NHL yet. But in today's NHL though, teams dont trade 2nd round picks for 12th NHL forwards because value wise they are not even, EVEN when one has played in the NHL.

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02-28-2013, 06:04 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post

I am confused by this. Eminger is a different story, not even close to what we are talking about. You are saying the possibility of Chaput to play in the NHL is greater that a player who is not in the NHL (presumably Sestito)? Sestito has already played int he NHL, and likely will in the future, albeit probably not for the Flyers. Chaput may never step foot on NHL ice, but somehow is more likely to be a fringe NHLer than a current NHLer?
I just brought up Eminger as an example of some people's reasoning regarding asset value. Some people believed Eminger was better than having a second 1st round choice because we already had a first rounder that year - it was as if having 2 first round picks lessened the value of the second first rounder. With the Flyers record of drafting in the late 1st round, that trade was stupid.

I am overreacting to the whole thing. You are correct, Sestito playing in the NHL is better than a possible player who may never play. I think though that I don't understand the trade in the first place if a year later Holmgren is giving up on the guy. I think Holmgren's fascination with big players with limited offensive upside bugs me. We have Shelley. We have Rinaldo. Why did we even need Sestito?

So I think, obviously in hindsight, that if we still had Chaput, we could still have hope he could end up being something for us, whereas right now, we know Sestito brings us nothing if he gets picked up. It's like that in every trade though - hindsight is 20/20. I shouldn't get hung up on it.

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02-28-2013, 06:36 PM
  #87
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dumb move. Sestito > Knuble

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02-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #88
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"This is EXACTLY what I imagine Hell is like: audibly/visually loud, overrun with people who like going to "The Cluhh," running soundtrack by Pitbull, only Bud Lite available."
-TCRCASE

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02-28-2013, 06:40 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Only one thing on this earth is more painful than that fact.



Excuse me, I'm going to lay my head on the railroad tracks and wait for the Acela Express.
Truer words have never been spoken.

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02-28-2013, 06:43 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Brings our cap space to $2,922,211. This is also without pronger on LTIR, which you have to think is bound to happen sooner or later. Maybe they did this because a move is coming?

With Pronger on LTIR, that'd bring our cap space to $7,857,925, when Meszaros comes back.
Untrue. Our cap space would be 0, our ability to extend past that is 7m(whatever).

I know its a "technicality", but it's very different.

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02-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #91
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Those talking about Chaput, they weren't going to sign him, so they got something for him. I disagree with waiving Sestito, if only because next time lightning strikes and someone's heavyweight lays someone out, Big Ed will get all pissy and demand we take someone else's and give them a multi-million dollar contract

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02-28-2013, 06:59 PM
  #92
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Almost 100 posts in a thread about Tom Sestito and Michael Leighton.

Impressive. Most impressive.

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02-28-2013, 07:11 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Only one thing on this earth is more painful than that fact.



Excuse me, I'm going to lay my head on the railroad tracks and wait for the Acela Express.
Wow - I have never seen that commercial. My life was fine until I watched this. I'm not happy with whoever posted this. If someone could edit the commercial and have those clowns get beat though, ...ram those phones in their mouths...that would make my life worthwhile again.

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02-28-2013, 07:31 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hmm by this logic though, what if you increase the value of both. Would you say its a good investment to trade say a 2nd round pick for a 12th forward? By this logic, that would be a good trade since that 12th forward is an NHL player and the 2nd hasnt played in the NHL yet. But in today's NHL though, teams dont trade 2nd round picks for 12th NHL forwards because value wise they are not even, EVEN when one has played in the NHL.
I think it is pretty obvious the difference between these two situations. I said in a previous post (possibly even one in response to you, I don't remember) there are situations when a pick is more valuable than an NHL player. Some of those situations include the obvious high pick for low end player. I don't think trading a low end pick for a low end fringe NHLer is the same thing as the example you gave.

Another thing to look at is the situation of the team. Chaput was never going to play for the Flyers. They had a number of centers, all better than Chaput. He was going to be dealt or he was going to walk for nothing (or possibly stick around and just never play here, outside of an emergency call up if Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, Briere, Laughton, Cousins, Talbot, and Wellwood were injured). Something the Flyers didn't have was an enforcer that could actually play. Sestito didn't pan out, at 23 years old, Tom Sestito put up respectable numbers prior to the trade (32 points in 46 games in the AHL). I know people don't like the enforcers, but having a guy with a different skillset, is of value to the organization. Sure, the Flyers could have held on Chaput and maybe be trading him now for something more valuable than Tom Sestito. That is 100% a possibility. But at the time (you know, without hindsight) it was just as likely that at this point in time Chaput would be of the same or less value than he was then. Even getting a sixth round pick for him originally, and hoping he some day makes it to the NHL, doesn't seem like a better choice than a guy putting up respectable numbers in the AHL and having NHL experience.

If you don't understand that or think that I am wrong, please explain why because maybe I am missing something or not explaining this well enough.

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02-28-2013, 07:32 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I appreciate the Brownie illustration! It helps me out. I agree with this analogy, except I would change it a bit to say that the existing brownie is dry and old because I don't think Sestito's potential was ever very high. So it might be more tempting to take the recipe if you know the brownie you have is not going to be great. But I agree - better to have a brownie period than only have the possiblity, especially when it is remote. I agree - better to have Sestito than a 6th round pick.
Haha. No one on here ever likes my analogies around here!

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02-28-2013, 07:50 PM
  #96
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Haha. No one on here ever likes my analogies around here!
My brain operates in analogies - which is why I can't do math or abstract reasoning. So I appreciated the analogy - espcially taking what I used and making it more applicable!

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02-28-2013, 08:01 PM
  #97
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Another gm should claim MFL and then extend him. Imagine what Holmer wold trade for an extended MFL

Hartley was begging to get tougher, maybe Flames claim Tom ?

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02-28-2013, 08:04 PM
  #98
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"This is EXACTLY what I imagine Hell is like: audibly/visually loud, overrun with people who like going to "The Cluhh," running soundtrack by Pitbull, only Bud Lite available."
-TCRCASE
Well, that and the eternal, unquenchable torment of searing, flesh-rendering misery.

But, yeah, the beer ...

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02-28-2013, 08:08 PM
  #99
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Almost 100 posts in a thread about Tom Sestito and Michael Leighton.

Impressive. Most impressive.
It's like online therapy. We're just missing Rorschach images of the Kane goal.

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02-28-2013, 08:25 PM
  #100
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It almost seems wrong if Leighton didn't get waived. It's an annual tradition.

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