Great trade by Sather. It did not even hurt to say that. At a minimum, Hall brings more of a physical presence on the bottom 2 lines. At a maximum, he may pop in around 20 or so goals if he REALLY improves. Still, another North American north-south player. He will add a much needed physical presence to the lineup, wherever he plays. He's more than good enough to play on the 3rd line and it would be interesting to see what he could do with a good playmaker like Immonen. Him and Hollweg could really provide interesting shifts, if on the same line.
I agree except I don't think it's a matter of REALLY improving.
Totals of 16, 13 and 14 goals aren't too base for a 22,23 and 25 year old player.
20 goals is all of goals over what he did on a worse team in the same role, wouldn't be a huge leap.
I don't think this a straight gringer acquisition here, the kid has a lot more upside than people seem to believe.
I don't remember Jason Ward playing offwing during ES last year. During this lineup shuffle, I hope he ends up finding a spot on the roster. Unlike other players with more talent and potential, Ward seems very bright/intelligent and these types of players thrive under coaches like Renney.
And I think the HBO line is MUCH better than the HMO/OHM/MOH/HOM line of last year...
I'm not even sure where Straka fits in on the PP at this point. Perhaps the point is where he is. On the first unit, theoretically you have Shanny-Nylander-Jagr. I assume Cullen mans one point. Straka the other? Renney didn't seem to like Straka there too much last season, and I actually thought Tyutin manned that position well last season (and it's something that could help his confidence). The second unit, call it a mixture of Prucha and Hall up front, and for all intents and purposes, Jagr hangs on for a bit of the second PP too, so perhaps Straka centers the second line, which could screw Hall or Prucha playing behind Jagr. And who can man the points on the second unit? Eesh... Maybe that's the next trade.
Fletch, I agree that he was not acquired for depth
I think that at a minimum he is coming directly to challenge Ward for the 3rd line RW spot. As of now, without Rucinsky, presumably these are the competitors for the 2 bottom-2 line RWs spots: Hall, Ward, Ortmeyer, Hossa. Something has got to give.
I don't remember Jason Ward playing offwing during ES last year. During this lineup shuffle, I hope he ends up finding a spot on the roster. Unlike other players with more talent and potential, Ward seems very bright/intelligent and these types of players thrive under coaches like Renney.
And I think the HBO line is MUCH better than the HMO/OHM/MOH/HOM line of last year...
that's one of the reasons why Shanny's always been one of my favorite player. He's one big, strong mutha who sometimes showed a temper. I know he's not the same player, but I wouldn't mind seeing just one fight out of him. Just one.
and if the Rangers are thinking like Edge, they try to get the offense out of him on a second line. I don't think he's going to get the PP time he did last season and the minutes need to be made up somewhere. Some players need minutes to be productive.
Who else could be moved? definatly not Ward, he was our workhorse and an extremely good PKer. I don't want to lose the work ethic and the chemistry we had last season. Any more moves and it will be way to much change.
Honestly, with Orts shotblocking, versatility (C/RW) and PK ability (especially with Moore and maybe Rucinsky gone) I don't think he's gonna be the one to be moved, more probably Hossa or Ward..But you never know..Alot of options..
I'm not even sure where Straka fits in on the PP at this point. Perhaps the point is where he is. On the first unit, theoretically you have Shanny-Nylander-Jagr. I assume Cullen mans one point. Straka the other? Renney didn't seem to like Straka there too much last season, and I actually thought Tyutin manned that position well last season (and it's something that could help his confidence). The second unit, call it a mixture of Prucha and Hall up front, and for all intents and purposes, Jagr hangs on for a bit of the second PP too, so perhaps Straka centers the second line, which could screw Hall or Prucha playing behind Jagr. And who can man the points on the second unit? Eesh... Maybe that's the next trade.
Maybe but I also tend to believe that a guy like Straka or even Shanahan, on a one year deal is not going to be locked into any spots.
My guess, and it is only that, is rotating guys in there. Cullen, Immonen, Hall, etc.
But we won't really know till camp at the earliest.
Hall is really a wild card. Depends on what he shows. Though I don't think he's necessarily a challange for Ward, the two wouldn't look half bad playing together for that matter. Hall can play any forward position the Rangers want.
I just get the funny feeling there is a hope that Shanahan teaches him a few things.
that's one of the reasons why Shanny's always been one of my favorite player. He's one big, strong mutha who sometimes showed a temper. I know he's not the same player, but I wouldn't mind seeing just one fight out of him. Just one.
Thing with Shanny was that if he never become a scorer he could've made it as a fighter/checker in the league.
The guy is a bull.
The butcher job he did on Iginla a few years back was just brutal.
and if the Rangers are thinking like Edge, they try to get the offense out of him on a second line. I don't think he's going to get the PP time he did last season and the minutes need to be made up somewhere. Some players need minutes to be productive.
I think the main 2nd line RW job is Pruchas but it will be good to have Hall ready to step in there on the PP, a few shifts a game, or if and when Prucha is hurt or dragging...It's a much better option then Hossa...Both guys have offernsive abilities and both have the potential to do more (why the Rangers like both) but Hall has consistenly relaized it if only to a limited extend...Like Edge, I can see him going up towards 20-25 goals under the right circumstances..
I think that at a minimum he is coming directly to challenge Ward for the 3rd line RW spot. As of now, without Rucinsky, presumably these are the competitors for the 2 bottom-2 line RWs spots: Hall, Ward, Ortmeyer, Hossa. Something has got to give.
Is it inconceivable to see Hall on a line with Shanny and Cullen?
My thoughts exactly on all issues...But I can see the HBO line being a bit more then a 4th line...We shall see..
To me the HBO line only has one guy who to me might become more than a 4th liner and that's Hollweg who everyone has seemingly forgotten was a pretty good junior scorer.
Betts I am not even convinced doesn't get replaced by a guy like Helminen.
while we won't know until it actually happens, my money is that he's implanted on the top PP (left wing), and is interchangeable on the top two lines. It's 50/50 where he starts. Renney may want to start with power and see if others can develop into second line players, or he may spread it out because Shanny would create room for his linemates and would still be productive - as long as Jagr is healthy and Lundqvist is solid, Renney will have time to tinker.
Straka's different because I can see him out of some PPs and is interchangeble on the top three lines (like last season). He's a real utility player. Unfortunately, he's not very productive unless he's with Jagr.
Hall-Immonen-Ward would actually be an interesting combination. Immonen actually does throw the body around, but isn't as fast as Hall and Ward, but I think the three actually are pretty skilled to be a darn good third line.
But again, to get to those 25 goals (this is of course if the Rangers are assuming the same as you) he's going to get the minutes. 10 PP goals may tough to duplicate. We'll see. I'm excited.
Is it inconceivable to see Hall on a line with Shanny and Cullen?
Personally i wouldn't rule anyone out. Outside of Jagr, just about anyone else in the top 6 could see time in the top 9 depending on the situation.
It really depends on what a guy like Hall brings to the table. If he is nothing more than a third liner, that's likely where he'll stay. If he improves and shows something, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see his responsibility grow.
Remember it was only a few weeks ago that we pointed to Shanahan working better with a little less icetime and how someone would need to make up that few minute difference (at the time we thought it was Dawes or Rucinsky).
That hasn't changed and could still be a slot to give a guy like Hall those extra minutes. Just a thought that I myself completely forgot about till now.
My thoughts exactly on all issues...But I can see the HBO line being a bit more then a 4th line...We shall see..
Without it evening taking the ice, I already REALLY like the HBO line. With the addition of Betts, it can be way beyond a 6 minute line. Especially important in close contests and putting that line out after goals. Especially since Hollweg took great strides last year and should look even better.
To me the HBO line only has one guy who to me might become more than a 4th liner and that's Hollweg who everyone has seemingly forgotten was a pretty good junior scorer.
Betts I am not even convinced doesn't get replaced by a guy like Helminen.
Agree totally on HOLLWEG--I think he has some hands, speed and skill to go with his hitting...And why I think together, they can be more then just a token 4th line
I'm a bit more convinced by Betts given his FO ability and his play in the PO then I am of Helminen, who doesn't impress me one iota.
Ruchinsky is out as well as maybe Hossa, but I say we keep him. Players are going to get injured, we'll need people who can step in and play NHL hockey.
