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Do the Canucks need a shakeup?

View Poll Results: Shakeup
Yes 123 61.50%
No 77 38.50%
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Old
02-28-2013, 07:50 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Half the organisation had Norwalk over the road trip. I'm hoping that's why they are playing so poorly still.
Ok , WTF is 'Norwalk' ???

I thought they had gout.

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02-28-2013, 08:11 PM
  #77
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The team is very heavily leaning on the Sedin line - the on / off ice gap is huge. Given that the d pairings aren't tied at the hip to a particular line, there's only 1 conclusion: our bottom 9 is poor (among them, only Higgins and Hansen have more than 1 goal at ES). The other teams know this full well and will do whatever to stop them (assisted by Auger's buddies) without having to worry about the other lines at all. Pretty dismal situation. either GMMG starts making changes asap or he'll be forced to later.

the core is Henrik, Daniel, Burr, Kesler, Hansen, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler,Tanev and Luongo or Schneider. 10 players, ~43.6MM cap hit...

Those who think a new coach will magically turn our bottom 9 into scoring threats are kidding themselves. The only thing he could do is shorten the bench and lean on the Sedins even more...

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02-28-2013, 08:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
The team is very heavily leaning on the Sedin line - the on / off ice gap is huge. Given that the d pairings aren't tied at the hip to a particular line, there's only 1 conclusion: our bottom 9 is poor (among them, only Higgins and Hansen have more than 1 goal at ES). The other teams know this full well and will do whatever to stop them (assisted by Auger's buddies) without having to worry about the other lines at all. Pretty dismal situation. either GMMG starts making changes asap or he'll be forced to later.

the core is Henrik, Daniel, Burr, Kesler, Hansen, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler,Tanev and Luongo or Schneider. 10 players, ~43.6MM cap hit...

Those who think a new coach will magically turn our bottom 9 into scoring threats are kidding themselves. The only thing he could do is shorten the bench and lean on the Sedins even more...
As Tiranis mentioned, the second and third lines are being told to play in an offensive style that does not suit them (cycling down low).

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02-28-2013, 08:16 PM
  #79
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As Tiranis mentioned, the second and third lines are being told to play in an offensive style that does not suit them (cycling down low).
Kesler Raymond and Schroeder are north south players . They like to score off the rush. Asking them to cycle to get the puck back to the D is not their style.

Teams just let them have the outside and take away the point shot. They need to create space and make plays to break down the defense.

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02-28-2013, 08:16 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Half the organisation had Norwalk over the road trip. I'm hoping that's why they are playing so poorly still.
If there is any shred of truth to this, four days off and getting better will be a good enough "shake up" for me. Hopefully, they can get their immune system's up to snuff for the next big shwack of games.

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02-28-2013, 08:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Kesler Raymond and Schroeder are north south players . They like to score off the rush. Asking them to cycle to get the puck back to the D is not their style.
And yet our coaches think that's how the whole team should play. It's sad to watch.

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02-28-2013, 08:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Kesler Raymond and Schroeder are north south players . They like to score off the rush. Asking them to cycle to get the puck back to the D is not their style.

Teams just let them have the outside and take away the point shot. They need to create space and make plays to break down the defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
And yet our coaches think that's how the whole team should play. It's sad to watch.
Every team in the NHL tries to get the puck back to the open D in the offensive zone. Off the rush, the D are supposed to have jumped into the play so it's not necessarily "cycling" it back to the D. Many teams have picked up on this and track the jumping dman. Also, I think the Canucks D aren't playing with much confidence and are jumping in less.

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02-28-2013, 08:34 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bieksallent View Post
As Tiranis mentioned, the second and third lines are being told to play in an offensive style that does not suit them (cycling down low).
While this is a plausible explanation, somehow I don't see that bottom 9 group putting up a lot of goals regardless of the system employed.

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02-28-2013, 08:34 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Timmer44 View Post
Every team in the NHL tries to get the puck back to the open D in the offensive zone. Off the rush, the D are supposed to have jumped into the play so it's not necessarily "cycling" it back to the D. Many teams have picked up on this and track the jumping dman. Also, I think the Canucks D aren't playing with much confidence and are jumping in less.
I can't elaborate right now but I spent some time on this in the AV thread. Canucks (generally) only allow the forwards to cycle down low rather than using the full zone which is something that guys like Raymond and Schroeder would be good at with their speed. The breakouts we use are also not conducive to creating offense off the rush.

It's not really surprising because this team wants to play a puck possession system almost to a fault. Keeping the puck in the offensive zone is the primary directive. Creating offense off the rush generally goes against that since you're pretty likely to give up the puck. Teams like Chicago and Detroit have a better balance while being good puck possession teams. Ottawa is a great up-and-comer in this area and have IMO really innovated with their usage of the D.

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Old
02-28-2013, 08:46 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Ok , WTF is 'Norwalk' ???

I thought they had gout.
Called DR Recchi...

Some might know it as norovirus, It dose this...

Nausea
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Stomach cramps
Severe illness or hospitalization is uncommon. Infected persons usually recover in 2 to 3 days without serious or long-term health effects.

http://www.schsa.org/PublicHealth/pa...walkVirus.html

Also Gout is not a virus you can catch...
But if the team did have a gout problem then I could see we are slumping

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02-28-2013, 08:54 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I can't elaborate right now but I spent some time on this in the AV thread. Canucks (generally) only allow the forwards to cycle down low rather than using the full zone which is something that guys like Raymond and Schroeder would be good at with their speed. The breakouts we use are also not conducive to creating offense off the rush.

It's not really surprising because this team wants to play a puck possession system almost to a fault. Keeping the puck in the offensive zone is the primary directive. Creating offense off the rush generally goes against that since you're pretty likely to give up the puck. Teams like Chicago and Detroit have a better balance while being good puck possession teams. Ottawa is a great up-and-comer in this area and have IMO really innovated with their usage of the D.
Agree, seems that they do to much of one thing and not more in moderation.
In the very limited time that those two have brought the puck out from the boards, Man they look so much more dangerous.

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02-28-2013, 08:57 PM
  #87
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yes.

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:33 PM
  #88
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Shakeup is a ridiculous overreaction. Trade? yes. Adjustments? yes. Shakeup? hells no.

Priority in my opinion is a top 6 forward still. The team did good during the regular season without Kesler and can still win the division without him. But with or without him alone they will get smacked in the first or second round. They need more offence. That was unfortunately exposed last year against LA. I am satisfied with the d, maybe tweak it up by getting another insurance guy.

But the real need is for a top 6, and unfortunately there is not a lot of guys on the NHL team who other teams would really want that we would be willing to give up. If they're going to hold onto both goalies then it will take some prospects and picks to get that guy. I will be irritated if the GM cannot get this done.

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02-28-2013, 10:23 PM
  #89
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Gillis hasn't done much to improve secondary scoring in the bottom 9. We play against teams with a better second/third/fourth line all the time. Generally, if the Sedin's get shut down, we lose. Gillis has banked on Raymond getting back into second line form - which looks like a decent bet this season - but he's still a streaky player and can be quieted pretty easily. Booth has obviously been hindered by injuries and has been streaky too and he hasn't really had an extended period of games where he's looked particularly dangerous. It's said constantly that we have too many players who play the same way or have the same amount of scoring ability - or should I say - lack thereof. Finding two wingers who truly compliment Kesler is something that Gillis still needs to do. The bottom 6 could use a change as well.

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02-28-2013, 11:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dc View Post
Gillis hasn't done much to improve secondary scoring in the bottom 9. We play against teams with a better second/third/fourth line all the time. Generally, if the Sedin's get shut down, we lose. Gillis has banked on Raymond getting back into second line form - which looks like a decent bet this season - but he's still a streaky player and can be quieted pretty easily. Booth has obviously been hindered by injuries and has been streaky too and he hasn't really had an extended period of games where he's looked particularly dangerous. It's said constantly that we have too many players who play the same way or have the same amount of scoring ability - or should I say - lack thereof. Finding two wingers who truly compliment Kesler is something that Gillis still needs to do. The bottom 6 could use a change as well.
I'll have to disagree with that statement. There are really only a handful of other teams in the west with better forward depth. Against other teams though it's a decidedly big advantage for us.

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02-28-2013, 11:45 PM
  #91
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If we could solidify our second line, and find chemistry between players, we'd have good scoring depth. With Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen/Booth as a third line, it provides another scoring threat we didn't have heading into last years playoffs against the Kings because Pahlsson was inable to create offense.

Fix the second line, find some chemistry and we'd be fine regarding depth. Our second line, I think, is the issue with us not having any secondary scoring threat.

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02-28-2013, 11:46 PM
  #92
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Double post.

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02-28-2013, 11:47 PM
  #93
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Personally, I think a shake up is useless at this point. The team's problem is fundamental, but we're still a better team than a lot of the weaker teams. The Canucks won the President's trophy off of having two top tier starting goaltenders. With a back-up, we'd have lost about 5 more games and we'd have just been 2nd place. Our record is inflated due to our goaltenders.

We don't match up well in a 7 game series with the other contenders, if we can call ourselves one. For some reason, every advantage over the other team that we have is not capitalized on, and every weakness we have against the (every advantage they have) seems to be amplified whenever the teams step on the ice.


I don't think the team can win the Cup with the Sedins. The team takes its identity off its top line- Anaheim is considered a big team because Ryan/Getzlaf/Perry are big and are the stars; San Jose is considered a big team because Marleau/Thornton are big; Boston is considered big because Lucic/Horton/Chara are big; Chicago is considered fast and good defensively because Toews/Hossa/Sharp are those qualities, etc. What are the Canucks? Soft, slow, but skilled. The Sedins don't add much beyond puck control and offense.

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02-28-2013, 11:53 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I can't elaborate right now but I spent some time on this in the AV thread. Canucks (generally) only allow the forwards to cycle down low rather than using the full zone which is something that guys like Raymond and Schroeder would be good at with their speed. The breakouts we use are also not conducive to creating offense off the rush.

It's not really surprising because this team wants to play a puck possession system almost to a fault. Keeping the puck in the offensive zone is the primary directive. Creating offense off the rush generally goes against that since you're pretty likely to give up the puck. Teams like Chicago and Detroit have a better balance while being good puck possession teams. Ottawa is a great up-and-comer in this area and have IMO really innovated with their usage of the D.
Those teams have that balance because they have defenseman that can handle the puck and that can skate (Keith, Karlsson, Kronwall). The Canucks had that type of balance too in 09-11 when they had Ehrhoff. Edler has his strengths, but skating and puck-handling are not his strengths.

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03-01-2013, 12:35 AM
  #95
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I'll have to disagree with that statement. There are really only a handful of other teams in the west with better forward depth. Against other teams though it's a decidedly big advantage for us.
I'm talking about forward scoring depth. I don't know if I made that clear or not, apologies if I didn't. You might still choose to disagree anyway, and that's fair.

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03-01-2013, 01:44 AM
  #96
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I'm talking about forward scoring depth. I don't know if I made that clear or not, apologies if I didn't. You might still choose to disagree anyway, and that's fair.
Yes, I did mean scoring depth too. So far this season it might not look like it's there, but Higgins, Hansen, Raymond and Booth can all produce. Factor in Kassian's development and Schroeder centering another scoring line and we're more dangerous than ever before. It's just that Kesler's injury plus the team's poor play in general has thrown everything out of whack. The near-constant line juggling hasn't helped either.

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03-01-2013, 01:51 AM
  #97
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They need to wake up.

Hopefully they can do it without doing something drastic.

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03-01-2013, 01:53 AM
  #98
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I don't know if a massive shakeup is needed but they do need something to inject a bit of passion into the team.
At the moment I just don't see the desire to win and I don't just mean in the regular season, in the LA series last year the team had no personality, no drive. I think the only reason they got so deep before was they were fuelled by the bad blood between them and the Hawks then all that happened against the Bruins, niether the Nashville or San Jose series' were particularly exciting and they didn't play that well for either, they did what they needed to and that was it.
What we need is someone who can go out and do this:

Just listen to the crowd!

Funnily enough I was reading an article about Rypper and his last game for the Pats, there was one little snippet that made me love him even more:
Quote:
Rick's last home Pats game was against Brandon, at the end of the 12-win season. I recall him standing in front of the bench, screaming at his lifeless teammates to show some emotion. He went out and scored a hattrick that night, including the winner, and prevented the Wheat Kings from clinching the pennant.
At the moment we have nothing like that, nothing from the players or from the coach. I remember last season Lappiere and Kassian went out for a couple of shifts and just hit everything in sight the crowd got into it and the atmosphere suddenly jumped up. This season everything seems so flat. We need someone to give the team a massive kick up the backside. It'll never come from AV and the core of the team haven't got the right mentality (As much as I love Henrik I still disagree with him as a captain) even a 4th liner can make a big difference as Rypper showed quite often, if you can find someone who can hit (not neccessarily big hits) maybe Scrap but more than anything play with a bit of passion it can help more than finding 4th liners who can pot a handful of goals in a season.

RIP Ryp, we could really do with your heart in the team right now.

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:28 AM
  #99
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Half the organisation had Norwalk over the road trip. I'm hoping that's why they are playing so poorly still.
says who?

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03-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #100
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If yes, please explain why and how big

If no, please explain why not


You must define what a "shake up" is ..

.. Is it firing AV or is it trading the Sedins or is is trading a couple bottom 6 guys.

You know what ? Actually you don't. The Canucks don't need anything more than mild tinkering and trading Luongo.

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