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02-28-2013, 04:25 PM
  #126
LetsGoFlyers1825
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Originally Posted by dannyj10 View Post
Kind of funny that the Flyers are going to end up with the same situation with there 3 big centers. You can't keep Couts on the 3rd line his whole career just like Jordan. Who do Flyers fans value more? Schenn or Couts?
I wouldnt be too sure. Giroux especially is in for a huge pay raise, but there is no way that Giroux and Brayden Schenn are going to push near $9 million.

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02-28-2013, 08:34 PM
  #127
JayRosehillforMVP
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Couturier to Edmonton?
Klefbom+paajarvi+1st
That's what it'd take for me to even consider it.
I doubt you'd want to trade Yakupov or J.Schultz

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02-28-2013, 08:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
Couturier to Edmonton?
Klefbom+paajarvi+1st
That's what it'd take for me to even consider it.
I doubt you'd want to trade Yakupov or J.Schultz
Most Oiler fans admit Yakupov is a luxury and could be moved for the right piece. I honestly feel the earlier proposed deal is pretty fair.

Yakupov + 2nd for Couturier plus 1st. Edmonton gets their big body defensive C who can play 2nd line. Philly gets a dynamic scoring winger who should gel well with Giroux on the 1st line within a year or two.

Makes both teams more dangerous in the long term and addresses both teams needs.

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02-28-2013, 08:47 PM
  #129
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Most Oiler fans admit Yakupov is a luxury and could be moved for the right piece. I honestly feel the earlier proposed deal is pretty fair.

Yakupov + 2nd for Couturier plus 1st. Edmonton gets their big body defensive C who can play 2nd line. Philly gets a dynamic scoring winger who should gel well with Giroux on the 1st line within a year or two.

Makes both teams more dangerous in the long term and addresses both teams needs.
I'm not opposed to it.
Does Whitney have negative value? I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him if EDM threw in a minor piece.

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:09 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
I'm not opposed to it.
Does Whitney have negative value? I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him if EDM threw in a minor piece.
Whitney has been useles this year for us. IMO it's motivation more than anything. The team has been handed to the young players and Whitney had his A taken away. While he said the right things in the off-season reagrding losing the A the level of play hasn't been there despte being healthy...well..as healthy as Whitney can get with hsi foot.

He's good depth at this point with potential to rebound but I doubt we'd throw in a significant piece to get him off the team as I believe his contract is up this year so he will not impact resigning other players.

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02-28-2013, 09:10 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Most Oiler fans admit Yakupov is a luxury and could be moved for the right piece. I honestly feel the earlier proposed deal is pretty fair.

Yakupov + 2nd for Couturier plus 1st. Edmonton gets their big body defensive C who can play 2nd line. Philly gets a dynamic scoring winger who should gel well with Giroux on the 1st line within a year or two.

Makes both teams more dangerous in the long term and addresses both teams needs.
We have plenty of wingers. The deal makes no sense.

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:19 PM
  #132
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The number one reason the Flyers start to the season was so frustrating: the inevitable ****** trade proposals.

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02-28-2013, 09:21 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
The number one reason the Flyers start to the season was so frustrating: the inevitable ****** trade proposals.
Every year when we go on our 10 game skid we get hammered. It sucks.

That summer before the 2009-10 season, when we looked to be absolute powerhouse monsters and had Emery signed, we didn't see any trade proposals. Best time to be a Flyers fan on HFBoards.

Then we started slow, and we got blasted by insanely terrible proposals for our arrogance.

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02-28-2013, 09:23 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We have plenty of wingers. The deal makes no sense.
Realistically how many with the potential of Yakupov? That's what the trade is about for Philly...potentially elite scoring winger from a position of depth.

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02-28-2013, 09:47 PM
  #135
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Realistically how many with the potential of Yakupov? That's what the trade is about for Philly...potentially elite scoring winger from a position of depth.
None with potential as high as him, but that really doesn't matter. Voracek, Simmonds, Hartnell, and Read all bring something really solid to the table.

And honestly, if Yakupov doesn't mean the lofty goal of being a 90-point forward, then he falls back in the PPG category, which Voracek is currently making a run at. So if Voracek continues this, then his potential is reasonable close to Yakupov's even if they're different kinds of players.

I don't know that the Flyers would trade Couturier straight up for Yakupov. We need what Couturier brings far more than what Yakupov does. We have plenty of people who can score goals, and the upgrade from Couturier to Yakupov, if there even really is one long-term, is not enough to downgrade a pick that we desperately need to use on defense.

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02-28-2013, 10:29 PM
  #136
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I don't think Philly is in a position to trade anyone that can play D. They need help there more than forward IMO.

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02-28-2013, 11:20 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Most Oiler fans admit Yakupov is a luxury and could be moved for the right piece. I honestly feel the earlier proposed deal is pretty fair.

Yakupov + 2nd for Couturier plus 1st. Edmonton gets their big body defensive C who can play 2nd line. Philly gets a dynamic scoring winger who should gel well with Giroux on the 1st line within a year or two.

Makes both teams more dangerous in the long term and addresses both teams needs.
Yak is a #1 PMD? Thats our need.

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
Couturier to Edmonton?
Klefbom+paajarvi+1st

That's what it'd take for me to even consider it.
I doubt you'd want to trade Yakupov or J.Schultz
At least you have a sense of humor.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:08 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
None with potential as high as him, but that really doesn't matter. Voracek, Simmonds, Hartnell, and Read all bring something really solid to the table.
Yes, they do, but you're forgetting that Matt Read is all but guaranteed to be out of Philly after 2013-2014, like Leino before him when he hits UFA. He's likely going to take his one big chance to grab a humongous contract. And as good as those guys all are, we have one potential #1 winger in Jakub Voracek. There's nothing wrong with acquiring a 2nd one (Yakupov).

Yakupov-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Laughton-Read

That's a pretty beastly top 9 for 2013-2014.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
And honestly, if Yakupov doesn't mean the lofty goal of being a 90-point forward, then he falls back in the PPG category, which Voracek is currently making a run at. So if Voracek continues this, then his potential is reasonable close to Yakupov's even if they're different kinds of players.
No, Voracek's potential isn't that similar to Yakupov. Yakupov is an elite goal scorer, while Voracek is an elite passer / playmaker. They would actually compliment each other very well on either side of Claude Giroux. It would also be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams to have to deal with that type of speed nightly from a single line. One guy (Yakupov) might be a 40-40 guy. Jake might be a 25-55 guy. They might end up w/ the same total pts, but their potential and their style of play would be completely different, so to say that because you have Voracek you don't need Yakupov is a totally incorrect way of looking at things.

The Flyers right now lack an elite shooting winger / sniper. Yakupov fills that hole and fills it quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I don't know that the Flyers would trade Couturier straight up for Yakupov. We need what Couturier brings far more than what Yakupov does. We have plenty of people who can score goals, and the upgrade from Couturier to Yakupov, if there even really is one long-term, is not enough to downgrade a pick that we desperately need to use on defense.
You've fallen in love w/ Couturier, which is understandable. But it causes you to overrate him a little bit. Right now (as in this season) we need Couturier because of his defensive ability and because we have nobody to take his place. But going forward, we have Scott Laughton, who if I'm not mistaken is another prospect that you love (I share the praise for Laughton). I think Laughton has exactly the kind of defensive game that Couturier does and from what I've seen, I think he's actually a little bit further along defensively than Couturier was in juniors. I think that Laughton is an ideal #3C for the Flyers long term.

We could just experiment with moving Laughton to wing, or moving Couturier up to the 2nd line and moving B. Schenn to wing, but why mess around with all that? And why hold Couturier back by keeping him as a #3C? He's never going to get the linemates or the easy minutes or the #1PP time necessary to truly blossom into the 65-75pt #1/top#2 center he has the potential to be.

At the end of the day, for me, what it really boils down to is your confidence (or lack there of) in Scott Laughton. If you've seen Laughton play and believe he can thrive in that shutdown center role and I definitely believe he can, then you trade Couturier for Yakupov. If you aren't as confident, then you keep Couturier.

Me personally, I'd do Couturier + 2014 1st for Yakupov + Ducks 2013 2nd (or Oilers 2014 2nd).

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:59 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Yes, they do, but you're forgetting that Matt Read is all but guaranteed to be out of Philly after 2013-2014, like Leino before him when he hits UFA. He's likely going to take his one big chance to grab a humongous contract. And as good as those guys all are, we have one potential #1 winger in Jakub Voracek. There's nothing wrong with acquiring a 2nd one (Yakupov).

Yakupov-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Laughton-Read

That's a pretty beastly top 9 for 2013-2014.
...It can be as beast as it wants. We need defensemen.




Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
No, Voracek's potential isn't that similar to Yakupov. Yakupov is an elite goal scorer, while Voracek is an elite passer / playmaker.
Yes, I said that they're different types of players. I also said that while Yakupov has higher offensive potential, Voracek's offensive potential is almost as high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
They would actually compliment each other very well on either side of Claude Giroux. It would also be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams to have to deal with that type of speed nightly from a single line. One guy (Yakupov) might be a 40-40 guy. Jake might be a 25-55 guy. They might end up w/ the same total pts, but their potential and their style of play would be completely different, so to say that because you have Voracek you don't need Yakupov is a totally incorrect way of looking at things.
That wouldn't be as good as you think. There's nobody going to the net, and there's nobody to open up space for them to make things happen. They can dipsy-do around the offensive zone until one of them eventually loses the puck and the play goes the other direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
The Flyers right now lack an elite shooting winger / sniper. Yakupov fills that hole and fills it quite well.
I like having guys like Hartnell and Simmonds who can get the dirty goals. An elite sniper would be nice, but it's a luxury. We have no problems scoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
You've fallen in love w/ Couturier, which is understandable. But it causes you to overrate him a little bit. Right now (as in this season) we need Couturier because of his defensive ability and because we have nobody to take his place. But going forward, we have Scott Laughton, who if I'm not mistaken is another prospect that you love (I share the praise for Laughton). I think Laughton has exactly the kind of defensive game that Couturier does and from what I've seen, I think he's actually a little bit further along defensively than Couturier was in juniors. I think that Laughton is an ideal #3C for the Flyers long term.
Yes, I know we have Laughton, but that's why we need to use Couturier, if we are trading him, on defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
We could just experiment with moving Laughton to wing, or moving Couturier up to the 2nd line and moving B. Schenn to wing, but why mess around with all that? And why hold Couturier back by keeping him as a #3C? He's never going to get the linemates or the easy minutes or the #1PP time necessary to truly blossom into the 65-75pt #1/top#2 center he has the potential to be.
It's very likely that either Laughton or Schenn will be moved to the wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
At the end of the day, for me, what it really boils down to is your confidence (or lack there of) in Scott Laughton. If you've seen Laughton play and believe he can thrive in that shutdown center role and I definitely believe he can, then you trade Couturier for Yakupov. If you aren't as confident, then you keep Couturier.

Me personally, I'd do Couturier + 2014 1st for Yakupov + Ducks 2013 2nd (or Oilers 2014 2nd).
No thanks.

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:44 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That wouldn't be as good as you think. There's nobody going to the net, and there's nobody to open up space for them to make things happen. They can dipsy-do around the offensive zone until one of them eventually loses the puck and the play goes the other direction.
I disagree whole-heartedly. I like Scott Hartnell a lot, so this is no slight to him, but it's Jakub Voracek on G's wing that really got that line going and it was before Hartsy even came back. Speedy linemates is what truly opens up space for you to operate. When they have to respect your teammates' ability to beat them, they've gotta give you more space. Also, Voracek is a big enough body to do everything you're talking about on that line.

But OK, you don't like Yakupov-Giroux-Voracek, I can respect that. What exactly is wrong w/ Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek, Yakupov-Schenn-Simmonds? That would give you 2 top lines w/ exactly the type of line balance you just harped on in your previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
...It can be as beast as it wants. We need defensemen...

I like having guys like Hartnell and Simmonds who can get the dirty goals. An elite sniper would be nice, but it's a luxury. We have no problems scoring.

Yes, I know we have Laughton, but that's why we need to use Couturier, if we are trading him, on defense.
You keep saying that we need defensemen, but isn't everyone clamoring for a #1 Puck-moving defenseman, including yourself? A #1 type PMD would contribute most to the offense, no? If our offense isn't the problem then shouldn't we be looking for more physical shutdown guys? I'm a bit confused by the disconnect of saying we don't need offense but then beating down the door for every PMD imaginable.

I also think that (as has been said time and time again), real #1 defensemen are not traded while still on their prime like ever and they certainly aren't going for Sean Couturier straight up or with various minor pieces added (which is primarily what you've been offering).

Sniper is a luxury, but it's luxury we don't have filled right now / don't have anyone with the potential to step up into that role, which is more than can be said about the #3 Center spot. Laughton fits perfectly into that role.

As for the defenseman we need/want, we'll have to acquire him through the draft, like most teams do.

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:50 AM
  #142
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i don't think the oilers would trade there #1 player this season

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