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Would the Bruins ever consider: Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley?

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:58 PM
  #51
bp13
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I'm kind of baffled by how much effort is expended on these boards trying to solve for our third line LW "problem", as though that's not one of the least important spots on any NHL team. Most NHL teams would jump at the chance to ice a third line with Kelly, Peverley and their best AHL plugger.

I still see a team that could use more skill on the blueline, and one who desperately needs more skill on the blueline on the power play. I don't see why we're not focused more on that issue. I think winning a Cup with a power play that rivals your average high school team's probably doesn't happen more than once a century.

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02-28-2013, 12:59 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Pie O My View Post
if Bergy were ever lined up with Kelly and Pevs, it's not a demotion for Bergy, it's a promotion for Kelley and Pevs.
Either way you slice it, none of those three deserve those fates, right?

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02-28-2013, 01:00 PM
  #53
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Bergeron and Marchand should be the last guys you separate. They have ridiculous chemistry. I love Seguin on that line too, but I honestly wouldn't mind them moving Peverley up to that wing spot. Bergeron and Marchand are the best two players on the team with the puck on their stick in tight spaces, and Peverley is right up there as well. Those three could really wreak havoc on other teams down-low in the cycle game despite being a somewhat undersized line. We already have a terrific cycling line with the brute strength/size of the KHL line, but having your top two lines being able to so easily wear others down would be awesome. For as many positives as Seguin gives you, that is probably the one area of his game that he most needs to work on, and he might be holding that line back a little bit in that aspect. Still though, can't complain. He stretches the ice more than anyone on the team with his speed, and that's a great thing to have with Bergeron's passing ability.

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02-28-2013, 01:02 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Either way you slice it, none of those three deserve those fates, right?
Right. Anyway, just don't split the top-2 lines other than the occasionnal switch like in the Mtl game to give a boost.

Chia should get the best winger he can, put him with Kelly+Peverley, put him on the PP and move him up to the top-2 lines if some injuries occur.

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02-28-2013, 01:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I'm not sure I follow this Morris... If you need Bergeron on the ice for checking purposes, wouldn't Seguin still be on the bench?
I can remember a few times in the playoffs last year, Seguin starting an defensive zone faceoff on the bench with Kelly in there. It limits Seguins ice time who is one or the top offensive player on the team.

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02-28-2013, 01:04 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I'm kind of baffled by how much effort is expended on these boards trying to solve for our third line LW "problem", as though that's not one of the least important spots on any NHL team. Most NHL teams would jump at the chance to ice a third line with Kelly, Peverley and their best AHL plugger.

I still see a team that could use more skill on the blueline, and one who desperately needs more skill on the blueline on the power play. I don't see why we're not focused more on that issue. I think winning a Cup with a power play that rivals your average high school team's probably doesn't happen more than once a century.
I'm kinda hoping they do both!

I think we could use someone else on D, but I am more concerned about defensive depth headed into the playoffs. Ideally, I would like someone who can push both Quaider and Ference a bit.

Overall, I don't worry about this team's ability to keep the puck out of the net in the playoffs, but I do worry about their ability to score in tight defensive games against elite goaltending.

As far as the PP goes, if you acquire a "top 6" talent, they could also help the PP, it doesn't necessarily have to come from the point.

Who would you like as a fit on defense for this team if you had your choice?

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02-28-2013, 01:12 PM
  #57
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Going to go along with the, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. I think that this is looking too hard at trying to get Seguin into that center role. Would it be nice to have him there eventually? I think so. Do I think he should be there now? No.

Even if we're looking at TOI for regular season play and seeing things rather balanced, consider the playoffs. When it comes down to the stretch, who do you want on the ice? Do you want to be running 3 lines come the 3rd when you're looking for a goal? Do you want to over commit and look to Seguin to be the one responsible defensively in that situation? How do you feel about him being the one on Kopitar, Thornton or Sedin?

On the flip side, do you want Peverley and Kelly out there trying to get the tying goal in that situation?

We can always say we'll pull the line back together and slide Seguin back in those situations but why bother then? If the best chance you're getting is having Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin, then why make the change?

(I'll add I also think that as others have pointed out, Bergeron and Marchand shouldn't be separated- they're playing too well together and I don't believe you see the numbers Marchand is posting without Bergeron creating some of the opportunities)

It's a creative solution and not completely bad Bill but I think what they need to do is just address the problem directly and work top down. You have 2 top lines performing, now address the 3rd without screwing up what you have. There are other solutions out there to get it done.

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02-28-2013, 01:19 PM
  #58
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I'm with the folks here pointing out that the Bergeron + Marchand combo is money. I would be very hesitant to separate those two.

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02-28-2013, 01:26 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I'm kind of baffled by how much effort is expended on these boards trying to solve for our third line LW "problem", as though that's not one of the least important spots on any NHL team. Most NHL teams would jump at the chance to ice a third line with Kelly, Peverley and their best AHL plugger.

I still see a team that could use more skill on the blueline, and one who desperately needs more skill on the blueline on the power play. I don't see why we're not focused more on that issue. I think winning a Cup with a power play that rivals your average high school team's probably doesn't happen more than once a century.
Because that's the topic of this thread.

If there was a thread about adding a D-man we'd all be posting there too....just like the last 4 years!!

Now, what I really want for my birthday is the addition of Daniel Alfredson and Mark Streit, without giving up any of our top 8 forwards or top 4 D-men...that's not asking too much is it??

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02-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...
Yah it's going to stink if its Montreal but if he can score 30 goals a year I can't blame him for padding the Hockey Encyclopedia stats

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02-28-2013, 01:45 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
I assume this will be frowned upon, but let me make my case before you make up your mind...

A: Defensive Adjustments
Last year against Washington, Julien kept subbing in defensive specialists for Seguin (i.e. Kelly or Peverley). The in-game line shuffling, Dzone starts and reduced ice time eventually led to Julien moving Seguin to Krejci's RW. Kelly also gave that line a LH option on Dzone faceoffs. Seguin has improved defensively but he's not at the level of a guy like Kelly, who's literally in the league because of his defensive acumen (and no matter how good Seguin gets, he can't help with those LH face-offs). Julien has made this adjustment a few times in close games this season as well, so even with Seguin's improved play, I'd expect it to continue into the playoffs.

B: Seguin at Center
This was touched on by a few people in the 'Seguin Defensive Appreciation' thread. The kid has really looked strong when he's rotated into the role of center this season. He's made plays in front of his own net, won battles, won 54% of his draws (albeit a small sample size) and he absolutely EXPLODES out of his own zone on breakouts. He's also really seeing the ice well and making plays.

I understand you don't want to mess with something that's working well right now, and with Chris Bourque not really producing maybe you don't have the horses to roll 3 scoring lines today, but Bourque may not be the only option a month from now...

C: Deadline Acquisitions
Chiarelli seems to be looking for a legit top6 forward; Briere, Alfredsson, and so on. If he succeeds in acquiring a player like that, then they'd have the depth to create a formidable 2nd offensive line around Marchand, Seguin and the New Guy. Imagine a rejuvenated Iginla in that role , or even a Ryan Clowe type who will bang bodies and get to the front of the net.

And if the tipping point for a successful Kelly-Peverley line was a player at least as good as Ryder, imagine what they could do with Patrice Bergeron. That could be the best two-way line in the league.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marsh-Seguin-NewGuy
Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


Possible Issues
Is there enough ice time to roll a lineup like that?
Does it hurt the team to have Bergeron playing with less talented offensive players?
At what point (when you're playing well as-is) do you shuffle the deck to try a lineup like that?
Is it fair to Bergeron?
To be honest, i'm not sure that Bourque is the problem on this line. All in all, Bourque performance, so far, is adequate for a 3rd liner. I think it fall on Kelly/Peverly to raise their game and make it happend. As far as to dismantle Bergeron's line, i'm not sure how it help the team. This line is very good since she was created so i just don't see the benefit to break this line for an " X " player. Our top 6 is a very good one. If anything, i would try to " reduild " the 3rd line by acquiring 1-2 players which mean that Peverly could be involve in a trade while Bourque would become the odd man out. I think it's gonna be easier to upgrade the 3rd line and the cost to do it will be less prohibitve.

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02-28-2013, 02:53 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...
I believe Bergeron's only "stipulation" was for the Bruins brass to lock up Chara. I could be wrong though.

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02-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #63
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I've wondered about the Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley line for a bit and my main concern is that Kelly's and Peverley's lack of production is not Chris Bourque's fault and they are, in fact, not very productive on the offensive end.

Wouldn't mind seeing this either:

Lucic-Kelly-Seguin
NewGuy-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


*lines in no particular order

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02-28-2013, 03:19 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox7327 View Post
I've wondered about the Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley line for a bit and my main concern is that Kelly's and Peverley's lack of production is not Chris Bourque's fault and they are, in fact, not very productive on the offensive end.

Wouldn't mind seeing this either:

Lucic-Kelly-Seguin
NewGuy-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


*lines in no particular order
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?

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02-28-2013, 03:27 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrim View Post
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?

Don't think we have ever seen Kelly with Lucic and Seguin. We've seen Seguin with Lucic and Krejci a few times though and the three of them have seemed to tear it up offensively in the few times they were put together.

Claude never stuck with it though for some reason. Perhaps having to do with defensive responsibility? Not sure.

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02-28-2013, 03:27 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrim View Post
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?
It was.

Honestly, it's the only place you can put Kelly on a paper lineup and not make him look like an offensive liability. Haha.

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02-28-2013, 03:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
Don't think we have ever seen Kelly with Lucic and Seguin.
We have. It wasn't for long, but it was legendary. That line is, in many ways, similar to the legend of Carl Soderberg.

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02-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ogrim View Post
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?
Yes. Was right before our dominant play very early on in the season. Was the first 2-3 games of our excellent play for 20 games in November and December Didn't last long.

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02-28-2013, 03:58 PM
  #69
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it's an interesting idea, but seems to me Julien loves Marchand-Bergeron together. And for good reason. Probably the most chemistry between them of all Bruin duos. So why split them up? Maybe move Peverley to Seguin's wing and put Kelly on RW? Or just put Seguin at center with Kelly/Peverley?

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02-28-2013, 04:19 PM
  #70
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I'd put seguin at 3c before I'd put Bergy there. I also wouldn't slit up marchy and bergy

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03-01-2013, 08:32 AM
  #71
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Last night. 1:50 left in the first period. Defensive zone draw.

Julien takes Seguin off the ice and puts Kelly out with Bergeron.

They lose the draw but Bergeron blocks a shot and chips it ahead to Marchand. He and Kelly leave the zone BUT Kelly goes off for a change leaving Marchand to fend for himself, he gets surrounded and turns the puck over.

That play may not seem like a big deal in the regular season but in the playoffs, when an errant dump-in can cost you the series, things like that add up. Last year Seguin was far and away the Bruins best offensive player, but in the playoffs they constantly pulled him off the ice for defensive zone draws. Sometimes he missed his shift because the Bergeron line would get hemmed in and he'd have to come out with different linemates. Other times the line would get out of their zone but they had trouble getting anything going offensively because Kelly would have to break off the rush and go for a change. It was a poor use of the team's most dangerous weapon, and it reduced Bergeron and Marchand's effectiveness as well. Ultimately, they changed it for the back half of the series.

I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.

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03-01-2013, 08:36 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Last night. 1:50 left in the first period. Defensive zone draw.

Julien takes Seguin off the ice and puts Kelly out with Bergeron.

They lose the draw but Bergeron blocks a shot and chips it ahead to Marchand. He and Kelly leave the zone BUT Kelly goes off for a change leaving Marchand to fend for himself, he gets surrounded and turns the puck over.

That play may not seem like a big deal in the regular season but in the playoffs, when an errant dump-in can cost you the series, things like that add up. Last year Seguin was far and away the Bruins best offensive player, but in the playoffs they constantly pulled him off the ice for defensive zone draws. Sometimes he missed his shift because the Bergeron line would get hemmed in and he'd have to come out with different linemates. Other times the line would get out of their zone but they had trouble getting anything going offensively because Kelly would have to break off the rush and go for a change. It was a poor use of the team's most dangerous weapon, and it reduced Bergeron and Marchand's effectiveness as well. Ultimately, they changed it for the back half of the series.

I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
Great points Bill... Not sure of many teams that have their best defensive forward centering their best goal scorer.

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03-01-2013, 08:44 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
Very well said.

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03-01-2013, 08:45 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Last night. 1:50 left in the first period. Defensive zone draw.

Julien takes Seguin off the ice and puts Kelly out with Bergeron.

They lose the draw but Bergeron blocks a shot and chips it ahead to Marchand. He and Kelly leave the zone BUT Kelly goes off for a change leaving Marchand to fend for himself, he gets surrounded and turns the puck over.

That play may not seem like a big deal in the regular season but in the playoffs, when an errant dump-in can cost you the series, things like that add up. Last year Seguin was far and away the Bruins best offensive player, but in the playoffs they constantly pulled him off the ice for defensive zone draws. Sometimes he missed his shift because the Bergeron line would get hemmed in and he'd have to come out with different linemates. Other times the line would get out of their zone but they had trouble getting anything going offensively because Kelly would have to break off the rush and go for a change. It was a poor use of the team's most dangerous weapon, and it reduced Bergeron and Marchand's effectiveness as well. Ultimately, they changed it for the back half of the series.

I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
I think this plays a bit to my point earlier- you don't go adjusting that line (MBS), you adjust the 3rd line and make sure that MBS are together and tuned for the playoffs.

We all know that CJ loves to pull a wing off, drop a 2nd center out there on d zone faceoffs because we otherwise run the risk of someone being thrown out of the circle and losing the draw. Look at the Caps series last year- how many times were we thrown out of the circle?

I doubt we'll see CJ go away from this strategy as a whole- Bergeron will be sent out in place of Lucic on Krejci's d zone faceoffs, and someone will go out if the 4th line is taking one- it's just how it is.

IF though we're only looking to fix the situation where Seguin stays on the ice in these and try to keep some line unity then the correction is for Seguin to take more faceoffs in practice and get some in game situations as well. If he's able to be the #2 on the dot without fear, that line and the 3rd line have no need to swing guys around on face offs.

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03-01-2013, 09:09 AM
  #75
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I think this plays a bit to my point earlier- you don't go adjusting that line (MBS), you adjust the 3rd line and make sure that MBS are together and tuned for the playoffs.

We all know that CJ loves to pull a wing off, drop a 2nd center out there on d zone faceoffs because we otherwise run the risk of someone being thrown out of the circle and losing the draw. Look at the Caps series last year- how many times were we thrown out of the circle?

I doubt we'll see CJ go away from this strategy as a whole- Bergeron will be sent out in place of Lucic on Krejci's d zone faceoffs, and someone will go out if the 4th line is taking one- it's just how it is.

IF though we're only looking to fix the situation where Seguin stays on the ice in these and try to keep some line unity then the correction is for Seguin to take more faceoffs in practice and get some in game situations as well. If he's able to be the #2 on the dot without fear, that line and the 3rd line have no need to swing guys around on face offs.
Not sure I follow your logic Watson. At the start you say you shouldn't adjust the MBS line, then you say Julien's going to doing what he does and stick to his strategies.

Well, what Julien does, is constantly adjust the MBS line because he wants Bergeron and Kelly on the ice together for all the defensive zone draws and critical situations. It's more than just Seguin winning draws, it's about having your best, most competent DEFENSIVE players out there at critical times (and I think he likes having a LH option for the dot as well). Seguin could lead the team in FO%, and IMO, Julien would still roll out Kelly for that faceoff. That's why Kelly's here.

My issue is that I think this hurts Seguin and Bergeron/Marchand. I think that was painfully evident in the Caps series and I don't want to see history repeat.

Fwiw, I also don't think we see this kind of juggling a lot with the Krejci or Kelly lines. Krejci gets most of his starts in the offensize zone where it's not as big a deal if he gets tossed, and Kelly has Peverley to back him up. We do see some juggling with the 4th line but nobody is going to lose sleep over Thornton missing a shift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredUser View Post
Even if we're looking at TOI for regular season play and seeing things rather balanced, consider the playoffs. When it comes down to the stretch, who do you want on the ice? Do you want to be running 3 lines come the 3rd when you're looking for a goal?... On the flip side, do you want Peverley and Kelly out there trying to get the tying goal in that situation?
But that is exactly what they do now. It's not like they just play 2 lines in the 3rd when they're looking for a goal.

Last year against the Caps...
Game 7, the Bruins need a goal to win: Chris Kelly saw 9 shifts in the 3rd period with 4 in the last 5 minutes.
Game 4, the Bruins are losing 4-3 and need a goal to send the game into OT: Kelly saw 9 shifts in the 3rd period with 3 coming in the last 4 minutes.

So, Kelly and Peverley are already out there in that situation. That's not going to change. Putting Bergeron with them just makes them more likely to score and less likely to get scored upon. And I think it would make for better flow, if they know they could just go out and play, and not have the interruption of someone going off for a change and dumping it in because you're worried you're short a man for a few seconds.


Last edited by PlayMakers: 03-01-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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