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Kane would have the status of Ovi, Crosby if he was in a big market

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:33 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by yogistewart View Post
are Washington and Pittsburgh huge markets?

case closed, your honour.
Yes?

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02-28-2013, 06:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
Yes?
WSH was pre-Oveckin??? :duno:

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02-28-2013, 08:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
WSH was pre-Oveckin??? :duno:
Redskins are the highest valued NFL franchise in north america.

Did Melrose say big market or big hockey market? (Honest question due to lazyness in checking the OP)

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02-28-2013, 10:04 PM
  #79
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Barry Melrose should get a job at the circus as a clown.
Over qualified.

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02-28-2013, 10:14 PM
  #80
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Over qualified.
How about the elephant shovel guy? Lol

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03-01-2013, 05:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
Yes?
no. a huge market is LA, NY, Chicago. that's top tier. Maybe lump Phila is that as well.
Washington's biggest hockey star before Ovie? just think about it....think about it...
Peter Bondra?
starstruck yet?

Pittsburgh was such a star city that Mario asked them not to draft him. and then they almost lost their team post-mario and pre-sidney.

is Green Bay a star NFL market?

i watched last night's NJ feed. you get the same thing every time a US city plays in Wpg. the hockey fever wows them. "And the game-day section in the local paper was FOUR pages!!!!! you can see the impact the Jets have on the city every where you go...from the second you land at the airport...."

in the end, it is a niche sports for some americans to watch. those who dig hockey will know who Kane is if the Jets end up making the playoffs. it is akin to east coast fans knowing every minutiae about west coast teams that they rarely see play. doesn't happen.

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03-01-2013, 09:59 AM
  #82
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If Kane were as good as Crosby, he'd be as big of a deal as Crosby.

Simply put, he's not as good, and not as big of a deal.

Pittsburgh isn't exactly an elite market. They nearly lost their team before Crosby came along.

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03-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
Redskins are the highest valued NFL franchise in north america.

Did Melrose say big market or big hockey market? (Honest question due to lazyness in checking the OP)
I think the point being made was no one gave two hoots about hockey in Washington and to a lesser extent in pittsburgh prior to the drafting of these players. (ok that's disengenuous, these weren't "bad" hockey markets but they certainly weren't the much bollyhood teams and locations they are now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogistewart View Post
no. a huge market is LA, NY, Chicago. that's top tier. Maybe lump Phila is that as well.
Washington's biggest hockey star before Ovie? just think about it....think about it...
Peter Bondra?
starstruck yet?

Pittsburgh was such a star city that Mario asked them not to draft him. and then they almost lost their team post-mario and pre-sidney.

is Green Bay a star NFL market?

i watched last night's NJ feed. you get the same thing every time a US city plays in Wpg. the hockey fever wows them. "And the game-day section in the local paper was FOUR pages!!!!! you can see the impact the Jets have on the city every where you go...from the second you land at the airport...."

in the end, it is a niche sports for some americans to watch. those who dig hockey will know who Kane is if the Jets end up making the playoffs. it is akin to east coast fans knowing every minutiae about west coast teams that they rarely see play. doesn't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
If Kane were as good as Crosby, he'd be as big of a deal as Crosby.

Simply put, he's not as good, and not as big of a deal.

Pittsburgh isn't exactly an elite market. They nearly lost their team before Crosby came along.

these quotes sum up my feelings precicely. Neither washington or Pittsburg were exactly hockey mecca's prior to acquiring Ovie and Sidney. Ovi, Sidney, and the exciting hockey they bring is what made these markets "big" hockey markets.
Chicken before the egg melrose...

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03-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #84
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Yeah but you can't deny that because of his personality and flashiness, it gives him a leg up in marketability.

If Kane was as good as Crosby, he'd be a bigger deal than Crosby. If he was good as Ovi, he'd be a bigger deal than Ovi.

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03-01-2013, 10:52 AM
  #85
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straight beast mode, puttin da team on his back doe

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03-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
Redskins are the highest valued NFL franchise in north america.

Did Melrose say big market or big hockey market? (Honest question due to lazyness in checking the OP)
Personally I don't think it matters because, even if he didn't say the word hockey, it is being implied. When the talking heads talk about markets they aren't discussing quite the same thing as economics or business models apply. They mean a combination of current media coverage and demand, which is the whole point that Melrose was eluding to. That Kane's accomplishments would be more recognized in a place that had such things.

So, Redskins' value doesn't affect that at all.

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03-01-2013, 02:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
If Kane were as good as Crosby, he'd be as big of a deal as Crosby.

Simply put, he's not as good, and not as big of a deal.

Pittsburgh isn't exactly an elite market. They nearly lost their team before Crosby came along.
Get your facts straight. They have the best local TV ratings of any city in the US and they have had sellout after sellout. People should really educate themselves before they make assumptions. Even the top seller for the longest time was a Penguins jersey (Crosby), not sure if it's now. If we're talking 2001-06, fine, but it's 2013. That was then. This is now.


Read below, I would say that's an elite market.

The Penguins have created a new reality for regional television.
From Erie to the Ohio border, though Morgantown, W.Va., and toward Altoona, about 357,000 people on average have watched Penguins games broadcast on Root Sports Pittsburgh since the NHL returned in late January.
No United States' NHL market had done better with its local club.
The Penguins' overall regional television rating — games broadcast on NBC, NBC Sports Network and/or Root Sports Pittsburgh — generated an 11.9 average, best for any NHL or NBA team.
“It's important for us to have high TV ratings because it tells us hockey is becoming more embedded in the culture,” Penguins CEO David Morehouse said.
The Penguins' regional TV ratings also were highest for NHL and NBA teams last season, and they are doing it again after a 119-day lockout.

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03-01-2013, 02:37 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PensFan6687 View Post
Get your facts straight. They have the best local TV ratings of any city in the US and they have had sellout after sellout. People should really educate themselves before they make assumptions. Even the top seller for the longest time was a Penguins jersey (Crosby), not sure if it's now. If we're talking 2001-06, fine, but it's 2013. That was then. This is now.


Read below, I would say that's an elite market.

The Penguins have created a new reality for regional television.
From Erie to the Ohio border, though Morgantown, W.Va., and toward Altoona, about 357,000 people on average have watched Penguins games broadcast on Root Sports Pittsburgh since the NHL returned in late January.
No United States' NHL market had done better with its local club.
The Penguins' overall regional television rating — games broadcast on NBC, NBC Sports Network and/or Root Sports Pittsburgh — generated an 11.9 average, best for any NHL or NBA team.
“It's important for us to have high TV ratings because it tells us hockey is becoming more embedded in the culture,” Penguins CEO David Morehouse said.
The Penguins' regional TV ratings also were highest for NHL and NBA teams last season, and they are doing it again after a 119-day lockout.
Uh I think it's obvious people are talking about "then".
And it just furthers the point that a great player can transcend a market or even elevate a market as Crosby has.

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03-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFan6687 View Post
Get your facts straight. They have the best local TV ratings of any city in the US and they have had sellout after sellout. People should really educate themselves before they make assumptions. Even the top seller for the longest time was a Penguins jersey (Crosby), not sure if it's now. If we're talking 2001-06, fine, but it's 2013. That was then. This is now.


Read below, I would say that's an elite market.

The Penguins have created a new reality for regional television.
From Erie to the Ohio border, though Morgantown, W.Va., and toward Altoona, about 357,000 people on average have watched Penguins games broadcast on Root Sports Pittsburgh since the NHL returned in late January.
No United States' NHL market had done better with its local club.
The Penguins' overall regional television rating — games broadcast on NBC, NBC Sports Network and/or Root Sports Pittsburgh — generated an 11.9 average, best for any NHL or NBA team.
“It's important for us to have high TV ratings because it tells us hockey is becoming more embedded in the culture,” Penguins CEO David Morehouse said.
The Penguins' regional TV ratings also were highest for NHL and NBA teams last season, and they are doing it again after a 119-day lockout.
I think the conversation was more directed at Pittsburgh pre-Crosby.

Edit: What wpgsilver said.

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03-01-2013, 03:01 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
I think the conversation was more directed at Pittsburgh pre-Crosby.

Edit: What wpgsilver said.
Well when Mario-led Penguins were doing good they had a huge fanbase/following as well. Even Detroit is starting to see a small drop off in fan support now since they are no longer considered the juggernauts of the league. Point is like everything in time, things experience highs and lows. Empires rise and fall, as do markets, and the economy. If i misread it, I apologize. Having said that, I love the support Winnipeg is getting right now, it's so infectious!

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03-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by PensFan6687 View Post
Well when Mario-led Penguins were doing good they had a huge fanbase/following as well. Even Detroit is starting to see a small drop off in fan support now since they are no longer considered the juggernauts of the league. Point is like everything in time, things experience highs and lows. Empires rise and fall, as do markets, and the economy. If i misread it, I apologize. Having said that, I love the support Winnipeg is getting right now, it's so infectious!
looks like we're not the only ones who get our backs up when we perceive our cities being besmirched


Apology accepted the conversation was definitely following the trend of "did the market make the star or did the star make the market".

We were merely saying that PRIOR to the arrival of the stars in question(sid and ovy), neither market was hugely followed or talked about(Pittsburgh was previously in the lemiux heyday). Obviously from 06 until 2010 (still ongoing you could say, at least for Pitt) those two teams were probably the two most talked about, because of said stars.

Pittsburgh is obviously one of the biggest hockey markets in the League now.

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03-01-2013, 04:04 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by PensFan6687 View Post
Get your facts straight. They have the best local TV ratings of any city in the US and they have had sellout after sellout. People should really educate themselves before they make assumptions. Even the top seller for the longest time was a Penguins jersey (Crosby), not sure if it's now. If we're talking 2001-06, fine, but it's 2013. That was then. This is now.


Read below, I would say that's an elite market.

The Penguins have created a new reality for regional television.
From Erie to the Ohio border, though Morgantown, W.Va., and toward Altoona, about 357,000 people on average have watched Penguins games broadcast on Root Sports Pittsburgh since the NHL returned in late January.
No United States' NHL market had done better with its local club.
The Penguins' overall regional television rating — games broadcast on NBC, NBC Sports Network and/or Root Sports Pittsburgh — generated an 11.9 average, best for any NHL or NBA team.
“It's important for us to have high TV ratings because it tells us hockey is becoming more embedded in the culture,” Penguins CEO David Morehouse said.
The Penguins' regional TV ratings also were highest for NHL and NBA teams last season, and they are doing it again after a 119-day lockout.
You need to read before you post angry responses. I specifically mentioned the pre-Crosby era.

Pittsburgh would have lost its team without Crosby. Elite markets survive with or without superstars (see: Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Minnesota, Buffalo, Detroit).

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03-01-2013, 04:45 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Canadian Airlines View Post
You need to read before you post angry responses. I specifically mentioned the pre-Crosby era.

Pittsburgh would have lost its team without Crosby. Elite markets survive with or without superstars (see: Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Minnesota, Buffalo, Detroit).
i don't think you can say that if a team DID move, even if they came back.

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03-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #94
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The Seguin thing is a very good point. I love Kane, but Seguin > Kane IMO

That said, I do believe Kane would get a little more attention if he actually played in some prime time TV games. No doubt that would happen in MTL, TOR or possibly even the Western Canadian markets. Winnipeg really doesn't have a great national / international TV presence. Not sure a move to the US would do much to help.
I hate to beat a dead horse but having 95% of our games on jets tv snt going to help our national presence either

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03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
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Those guys are complete idiots on two counts:

1: Winnipeg IS a hockey market. He isn't playing in (insert American summer-year-round state name here).
WPG is only considered a hockey market to Canadians. No one outside Canada cares because everyone knows a smaller city in that country is going to be crazy about their hockey team. Your market doesn't come close to any Orig 6, Pitt, Minn, Philly and Buffalo.

But thanks for taking another shot at the south. I could easily flip his statement around and say Kane is evolving into a superstar because he plays in a Canadian year around winter province where all there is to do is watch hockey so all the attention is on him.

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03-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #96
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WPG is only considered a hockey market to Canadians. No one outside Canada cares because everyone knows a smaller city in that country is going to be crazy about their hockey team. Your market doesn't come close to any Orig 6, Pitt, Minn, Philly and Buffalo.
This is beyond stupid. You try to speak for everyone outside Canada.

Anyone with a brain who has an interest in hockey, yes, even in the USA, knows that Winnipeg is a hockey-crazed market, just like every other city/town in this Country.

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03-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by ATLhockey437 View Post
WPG is only considered a hockey market to Canadians. No one outside Canada cares because everyone knows a smaller city in that country is going to be crazy about their hockey team. Your market doesn't come close to any Orig 6, Pitt, Minn, Philly and Buffalo.

But thanks for taking another shot at the south. I could easily flip his statement around and say Kane is evolving into a superstar because he plays in a Canadian year around winter province where all there is to do is watch hockey so all the attention is on him.
Doesn't come close huh? Care to provide some facts to back that up? Because the most recent Forbes article on the business of hockey ( http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/ ) already list Winnipeg above Buffalo and only 3 spots behind Minnesota. This is also with a significantly smaller arena.

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03-08-2013, 09:30 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by ATLhockey437 View Post
WPG is only considered a hockey market to Canadians. No one outside Canada cares because everyone knows a smaller city in that country is going to be crazy about their hockey team. Your market doesn't come close to any Orig 6, Pitt, Minn, Philly and Buffalo.

But thanks for taking another shot at the south. I could easily flip his statement around and say Kane is evolving into a superstar because he plays in a Canadian year around winter province where all there is to do is watch hockey so all the attention is on him.
My goodness you could not be more blind to reality.

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03-08-2013, 09:51 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by yogistewart View Post
no. a huge market is LA, NY, Chicago. that's top tier. Maybe lump Phila is that as well.
Washington's biggest hockey star before Ovie? just think about it....think about it...
Peter Bondra?
starstruck yet?
The DC metro area is about as populated as Philadelphia's and it's growing at a significantly faster rate. It's also a larger metro area than Boston's, but they're all in the same vicinity basically. Also, the Balt-Wash area (the Caps have a ton of fans throughout that corridor) is the 4th most densely populated area in the entire US, so DC is definitely a large market. It's not a pre-eminent hockey market though, which I suspect was your point, so it's not the type of market that generates inflated hype. You pretty much get the level of recognition commensurate with your performance here.

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03-08-2013, 11:39 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by SubparSoup View Post
I hate to beat a dead horse but having 95% of our games on jets tv snt going to help our national presence either
Not to be a stickler but 79% of our games are on Jets TV

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