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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #901
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Push hard for Gardiner first, if that does not work remove the 2nd rounder and ask for Gunny. I haven't seen Gunnarson play much so I'll trust you on this one, but I like Franson better. I'm in the 'offensive' camp when it comes to EJ's partner.

I'd want Bozak practically signed though before I make that trade. At least the opportunity to talk to him.


Q the Bozak compared to Stastny's last season point total argument though... ick
Franson plays the right side. Gunnarsson plays the left. In Avs terms (not purely the best comparison), Gunnarsson is basically a younger, slightly less physical Hejda. Solid top 4, good for 20 pts, can eat 22 minutes easily, has a bit more offensive upside left (doubtful he would reach it). Never will be a #2, but can be a solid #3. He would be a guy that lets EJ roam and use his offense.

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03-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #902
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I think we need to start getting serious about a Stastny to Toronto situation.
Yep. The O'R contract makes him unsignable. Toronto would be fine.

Or Stastny to Calgary.

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03-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #903
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Franson plays the right side. Gunnarsson plays the left. In Avs terms (not purely the best comparison), Gunnarsson is basically a younger, slightly less physical Hejda. Solid top 4, good for 20 pts, can eat 22 minutes easily, has a bit more offensive upside left (doubtful he would reach it). Never will be a #2, but can be a solid #3. He would be a guy that lets EJ roam and use his offense.
Why bring that in when we have Hejda, and Siemens in the pipe? If you say hes not a #2 then what makes him much better that using Wilson next to EJ as well?

At least with Franson if we are getting a 2nd pairing guy, he can provide offense with EJ, Franson, and Barrie down the right side. Franson is also huge and a fairly good skater for his size. Pair him with someone like Hejda, Wilson, or Siemens and it would add high end depth.

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03-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #904
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If we have to talk Stastny to Toronto, something around Franson/Gunnarsson + 1st would be doable IMO. Bozak could be a throw in, and we would have to send something else back.

Stastny + SOB for Gunnarsson + Bozak + 1st? I don't know I am terrible at these proposals.
IMO, there's no way the Avs are going to get that for Stastny. For better or worse, Stastny is now a salary dump, and the world knows it.

So if the Avs are going to trade Stastny (unless it's right at next year's trade deadline), they are going to likely either take A) a nasty salary + solid prospect in return (which the Avs aren't likely to do, since they need to dump the salary, not keep it the same), or they're going to have to take a more modest return like B) in a 2nd round pick plus a mid-level prospect or something like that.

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03-01-2013, 11:23 AM
  #905
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IMO, there's no way the Avs are going to get that for Stastny. For better or worse, Stastny is now a salary dump, and the world knows it.

So if the Avs are going to trade Stastny (unless it's right at next year's trade deadline), they are going to likely either take A) a nasty salary + solid prospect in return (which the Avs aren't likely to do, since they need to dump the salary, not keep it the same), or they're going to have to take a more modest return like B) in a 2nd round pick plus a mid-level prospect or something like that.
Then Stastny's 11 points in his last 13 games while playing with Jones and one of Mitchell, Palushaj, or Hejduk slaps you in the face. Then you realize that is a 69.4 point pace over 82 games and you say to yourself... Hmmm maybe Stastny had a rough start to the year with McPing hitting every piece of metal in the rink 3 times a game and 6 times on Sunday.

Stastny hasn't been great but hes been quietly producing while we all talk **** about him, as usual.

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03-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #906
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I don't think the Leafs would trade for Stastny. Leafs would not be willing to pay him 6.6M+...and he's definitely going to get that from some team when he is a UFA.

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03-01-2013, 11:30 AM
  #907
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Why bring that in when we have Hejda, and Siemens in the pipe? If you say hes not a #2 then what makes him much better that using Wilson next to EJ as well?

At least with Franson if we are getting a 2nd pairing guy, he can provide offense with EJ, Franson, and Barrie down the right side. Franson is also huge and a fairly good skater for his size. Pair him with someone like Hejda, Wilson, or Siemens and it would add high end depth.
Because Hejda is 34 and gone after 14-15. His game could nose dive at any point. Getting his replacement, and a guy that could pair with EJ now (giving a solid top 4) would be enough motivation to swing that deal. Siemens isn't ready yet, if we are lucky he will be ready in 14-15, even then he won't be on Gunnarsson's level.

Franson is having a bit of a breakout, but historically his offensive isn't all that much higher than Gunnarsson's and Franson is way worse defensively. I'm not against Franson by any means, but I'm just saying it isn't clear that Franson is a better choice than Gunnarsson. Franson being on the right side IMO lowers his value to us when we already have EJ and Barrie in the top 4, and Elliott (who has better offensive talent than any of them) not far from being ready.

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03-01-2013, 11:32 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Then Stastny's 11 points in his last 13 games while playing with Jones and one of Mitchell, Palushaj, or Hejduk slaps you in the face. Then you realize that is a 69.4 point pace over 82 games and you say to yourself... Hmmm maybe Stastny had a rough start to the year with McPing hitting every piece of metal in the rink 3 times a game and 6 times on Sunday.

Stastny hasn't been great but hes been quietly producing while we all talk **** about him, as usual.
Agreed...good post.

It's weird that people just don't see that if McGinn had scored on HALF of the EIGHT posts he hit in those first 5 games while playing with Stastny, he'd have 16pts in 19gp instead of the 12pts in 19gp, like David Backes does right now.

OMGZZZ David Backes must suck eggs too!!!

Stastny's had a few bad games here and there but he's also had a few strong games too. EVERYTHING depends on:

a) Does he even want to continue playing for the Avs?
AND
b) Is he willing to re-sign a contract extension at a more reasonable cap hit like ($5M to $5.5M per year)?

If the answer to either is no, then he WILL be shopped and we'll get our max return for him this summer or at this time next year. If the answer is yes, then you can bet the Avs will send RoR packing somewhere because that's just how Lacroix operates.

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03-01-2013, 11:32 AM
  #909
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I don't think the Leafs would trade for Stastny. Leafs would not be willing to pay him 6.6M+...and he's definitely going to get that from some team when he is a UFA.
I can't make any statements, but he seems like a reasonable guy for contracts. He was just offered a golden contract from the worst GM in human history since Wandell.

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03-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #910
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Agreed...good post.

It's weird that people just don't see that if McGinn had scored on HALF of the EIGHT posts he hit in those first 5 games while playing with Stastny, he'd have 16pts in 19gp instead of the 12pts in 19gp, like David Backes does right now.

OMGZZZ David Backes must suck eggs too!!!

Stastny's had a few bad games here and there but he's also had a few strong games too. EVERYTHING depends on:

a) Does he even want to continue playing for the Avs?
AND
b) Is he willing to re-sign a contract extension at a more reasonable cap hit like ($5M to $5.5M per year)?

If the answer to either is no, then he WILL be shopped and we'll get our max return for him this summer or at this time next year. If the answer is yes, then you can bet the Avs will send RoR packing somewhere because that's just how Lacroix operates.
Said this in another thread, but gonna say it here, too:



If that ^^^ is Stastny ^^^ next year (or even this year), we need to give him the best winger combination we have to raise his value as much as possible, no?

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03-01-2013, 11:36 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
If that ^^^ is Stastny ^^^ next year (or even this year), we need to give him the best winger combination we have to raise his value as much as possible, no?
Are we trying to win hockey games or are we holding an auction?

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03-01-2013, 11:37 AM
  #912
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Agreed...good post.

It's weird that people just don't see that if McGinn had scored on HALF of the EIGHT posts he hit in those first 5 games while playing with Stastny, he'd have 16pts in 19gp instead of the 12pts in 19gp, like David Backes does right now.

OMGZZZ David Backes must suck eggs too!!!

Stastny's had a few bad games here and there but he's also had a few strong games too. EVERYTHING depends on:

a) Does he even want to continue playing for the Avs?
AND
b) Is he willing to re-sign a contract extension at a more reasonable cap hit like ($5M to $5.5M per year)?

If the answer to either is no, then he WILL be shopped and we'll get our max return for him this summer or at this time next year. If the answer is yes, then you can bet the Avs will send RoR packing somewhere because that's just how Lacroix operates.
Only part I disagree with is sending O'Reilly packing. Unless we draft his replacement this year. Which is dumb IMO when we need a high end defensive prospect that has top 2 upside, and we already have three strong centers.

I proved we can afford all three and sign some guys in the off-season here :

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
How about this based on my last post, (2013-2014 Obviously)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jamie McGinn ($1.750m) / Matt Duchene ($3.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($3.575m) / Paul Stastny ($6.600m) / Nathan Horton ($5.000m)
Steve Downie ($2.650m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($5.000m) / David Jones ($4.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / John Mitchell ($1.100m) / Chuck Kobasew ($1.150m)
Mark Olver ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Mark Streit ($4.100m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Ladislav Smid ($3.500m) / Tyson Barrie ($0.900m)
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Ryan Wilson ($2.250m)
Matt Hunwick ($1.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($2.833m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Greg Zanon ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,068,313; BONUSES: $2,710,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,941,667
------
CALCULATOR LOG
* Stefan Elliott demoted.
* Traded Shane O'Brien
* Traded Ryan O'Byrne
* Greg Zanon bought out. (Compliance)
* Nathan Horton signed as free agent for $5,000,000.
* Ladislav Smid signed as free agent for $3,500,000.
* Mark Streit signed as free agent for $4,100,000.
* Chuck Kobasew signed as free agent for $1,150,000.

Siemens & Elliott in the AHL developing together. They both work as call ups for different types of defenders if injuries hit as well. Jones can be traded in a couple years and hopefully replaced by a rookie, so we can give raises where they are do. Hejda will also be gone 'within' a couple of years and replaced by Siemens.

Draft the best possible LH offensive defender we can at our draft position and hope hes ready to replace Streit in 3-4 years.

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03-01-2013, 11:38 AM
  #913
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I would be shocked if we head into next season with less than $6m in cap space, as proposed above.

The team will want as much freedom as possible for the summer of 2014.

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03-01-2013, 11:39 AM
  #914
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Said this in another thread, but gonna say it here, too:



If that ^^^ is Stastny ^^^ next year (or even this year), we need to give him the best winger combination we have to raise his value as much as possible, no?
I agree but if history is any indicator, the Avs will try to keep Stastny and trade RoR (not saying it's the best move though). In that case, RoR would get the best wingers. We'll see soon enough how this shakes out.

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03-01-2013, 11:40 AM
  #915
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I would be shocked if we head into next season with less than $6m in cap space, as proposed above.

The team will want as much freedom as possible for the summer of 2014.
Yep.. too many raises to hand out.

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03-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #916
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Are we trying to win hockey games or are we holding an auction?
Are we trying to maximize returns for our (apparently no longer wanted) assets, thus making the team better for the future, or do we want to ship guys out for a pittance of what they're worth because we have a new over-paid center that needs to earn the money he's being paid?

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03-01-2013, 11:42 AM
  #917
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Only part I disagree with is sending O'Reilly packing. Unless we draft his replacement this year. Which is dumb IMO when we need a high end defensive prospect that has top 2 upside, and we already have three strong centers.

I proved we can afford all three and sign some guys in the off-season here :
Hey, I'm not saying I agree with it because that's not what I'd do but I can see the Avs making that kind of move, unfortunately.

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03-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #918
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I agree but if history is any indicator, the Avs will try to keep Stastny and trade RoR (not saying it's the best move though). In that case, RoR would get the best wingers. We'll see soon enough how this shakes out.
Oh, I agree that history would say that ROR is playing on borrowed time. That's why I said in another post that it's too early to be trading Staz away. Unless, of course, we're starting the rebuild over, and are comfortable going forward without either Staz or ROR.

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03-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #919
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I would be shocked if we head into next season with less than $6m in cap space, as proposed above.

The team will want as much freedom as possible for the summer of 2014.
In that conversation my idea is predicated on O'Reilly & Stastny signing extensions this off-season. Maybe even Duchene and Landeskog as well. At that point we would know what our cap structure looks like.

If Stastny will take 5.5M and O'Reilly will take 5M AAV, it gives us another 1M to add to the 4M we need in order to give raises to Duchene & Landeskog.

After next season I fully expect the cap to stagnate for maybe a year and then start to rise again. Everyone came back in droves for this half season, and with half decent growth and our core guys locked up. We can handle the raises needed as well as do things like get rid of Jones's 4M if need be.

I've done the math, but it's based on some hopeful but reasonable ideas for player salaries. It's a possibility IF...

Now if Duchene want's 7M and Stastny isn't willing to take a small paycut, yeah it's a crap shoot. But all the major salary adding moves are done after July 1st which makes it more realistic.


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03-01-2013, 11:48 AM
  #920
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What about all the teams out East we were "courting" with ROR.
Maybe they were intrigued enough at adding a Center they still may deal, especially at a lower cost (not in $) of Staz.

Ottawa (Wiercioch, Ceci)
Isles (de Haan, Donovan)
Caps (Orlov, Schilling) they are gonna break that team up IMO.
Buffalo (Sekera, Pysyk)


Last edited by AslanRH: 03-01-2013 at 11:56 AM. Reason: while not elite top 2, these all would be an upgrade to our 4/6 now and have upside i think.
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03-01-2013, 11:53 AM
  #921
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Then Stastny's 11 points in his last 13 games while playing with Jones and one of Mitchell, Palushaj, or Hejduk slaps you in the face. Then you realize that is a 69.4 point pace over 82 games and you say to yourself... Hmmm maybe Stastny had a rough start to the year with McPing hitting every piece of metal in the rink 3 times a game and 6 times on Sunday.

Stastny hasn't been great but hes been quietly producing while we all talk **** about him, as usual.
Agree, and he is not a cap dump on this team until next year if at all. Look at some of the teams $ tied up in the center position. We are not that bad, and if it means winning and filling the Can again, Kronke will pay.

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03-01-2013, 11:56 AM
  #922
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What about all the teams out East we were "courting" with ROR.
Maybe they were intrigued enough at adding a Center they still may deal, especially at a lower cost (not in $) of Staz.

Ottawa (Wiercioch, Ceci)
Isles (de Haan, Donovan)
Caps (Orlov, Schilling) they are gonna break that team up IMO.
Buffalo (Sekera, Pysyk)
I don't see the Islanders or Ottawa going for Stastny. Now Buffalo I could really see. They have had the hots for Stastny before, and would likely come calling again.

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03-01-2013, 12:00 PM
  #923
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I don't see the Islanders or Ottawa going for Stastny. Now Buffalo I could really see. They have had the hots for Stastny before, and would likely come calling again.
How about when they wanted to swap Vanek for Stastny? lolz oops on that one...

This is crazy... We have 7.6M tied up in Zannon (2.25), O'Brien(2M), O'Byrne(1.8M), and Hunwick(1.6M) right? That's with EJ, Wilson, Barrie, and Hejda on the roster now. Holly crap we can easily turn that into two top 4 defenders @ 4M a piece and be better off...

Then still have Gaunce, Elliott, and Siemens in the minors.

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03-01-2013, 12:02 PM
  #924
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I imagine the plan is to sign one of Stastny/O'Reilly sooner rather than later and ship out the other. If O'Reilly is reasonable (which, admittedly, is a bit of a stretch based on what we now know) it's probably better in the long run if it's him.

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03-01-2013, 12:06 PM
  #925
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I imagine the plan is to sign one of Stastny/O'Reilly sooner rather than later and ship out the other. If O'Reilly is reasonable (which, admittedly, is a bit of a stretch based on what we now know) it's probably better in the long run if it's him.
I'm sorry, but Ryan O'Reilly is unreasonable in what way?

He stuck to his guns, and he was proven right; other teams were willing to not only pay him the $5m per he wanted, but exceed that as well.

I think it's pretty clear that Sherman and the Avs were the unreasonable ones, and now we sit here with O'Reilly making $1.5m more next year than he even wanted originally from us. Who was unreasonable, specifically with the information we now have like you said?

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