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Abbotsford Flames to Utica?

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02-26-2013, 02:18 AM
  #26
HansH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunking278 View Post
I wonder if a deal can be worked out where the Canucks and Flames simply agree to swap their AHL affiliations. In other words, Calgary gets the Wolves and Vancouver gets Abbotsford. Ideally, each franchise would have their minor league affiliates in close proximity. Ideally, the Chicago Wolves ought to be the affiliate of the Blackhawks. I must say, it is quite strange how this all works.
The piece you're missing is that many AHL teams are independently owned, and not controlled by the NHL parent. So you're dealing with several transactions here -- the team's lease with the home arena, the ownership of the FRANCHISE, and the AFFILIATION (that is, who supplies the players) with the NHL team.

So, no, the Flames and Canucks can't just "swap affiliations", because the Wolves owner would have to agree to a Flames affiliation, and the Heat owner would have to agree to a Canucks affiliation.

The problem there is that the Heat are actually still owned by the Flames. So, for your scenario to work, in addition to the Wolves owners agreeing to a Flames affiliation, then someone else would likely have to purchase (or lease) the Heat _franchise_ (not affiliation) from the Flames _and_ convince the Canucks to affiliate with them. There's a lot more moving parts here. The NHL is not in control of where the AHL places its teams, other than, of course, the situations where the NHL team actually _owns_ the afffiliate instead of just taking their money and supplying them players.

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02-26-2013, 02:21 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
They have to sell tickets for the remainder of this year - so why say the team is on its way out now?

This is a rumour, a rumour that has legs. You'll see things ramp up in the next few weeks and months.

Go 20 min down the freeway to the east, go back in time 2 years, and I present to you the demise fiasco of the WHL Chilliwack Bruins.

http://gdrinnan.blogspot.ca/2011/04/...hronology.html
6 weeks from the rumours starting, to the Bruins disappearing. Fans were told season ticket renewal forms were at the print shop, as they started wondering what was going on, since it was early March.

The first chapter of the end of the Abbotsford Heat is just beginning.
It might be as you say, but pointing out how one prior story played out hardly proves that every other story will play out the same way -- I've lost track of how many "team XXX is a dead lock to move to YYY after this season!" stories have completely failed to materialize in reality over the years.

I'm just saying that I'm not jumping on board the "it's definitely gonna happen" train until there's more supporting evidence. I shouldn't have to point this out, but I feel the need to clarify that that is fundamentally different than claiming "it's definitely not going to happen".

"Difficult to tell. Always in motion, is the future..."

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02-26-2013, 02:30 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunking278 View Post
I wonder if a deal can be worked out where the Canucks and Flames simply agree to swap their AHL affiliations. In other words, Calgary gets the Wolves and Vancouver gets Abbotsford. Ideally, each franchise would have their minor league affiliates in close proximity. Ideally, the Chicago Wolves ought to be the affiliate of the Blackhawks. I must say, it is quite strange how this all works.
The only way this could happen is if the Flames sell the Heat to the Canucks and then sign an affiliate agreement with Chicago. This will not happen IMO because I do believe the Flames want to own their AHL affiliate.

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02-26-2013, 01:32 PM
  #29
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So are they leaving at the end of this season. Will they play in NY starting in Spet of 2013 ?

Has any one been to Utica, NY. I don't think the players will be too happy. Utica is known for Couch burning parties. Go out in a field party all night bring your old couches and burn them at night so you do not have to take them back home...... No kidding.

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02-26-2013, 02:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Capitals03 View Post
So are they leaving at the end of this season. Will they play in NY starting in Spet of 2013 ?

Has any one been to Utica, NY. I don't think the players will be too happy. Utica is known for Couch burning parties. Go out in a field party all night bring your old couches and burn them at night so you do not have to take them back home...... No kidding.
http://www.news1130.com/2013/02/25/a...medium=twitter

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02-26-2013, 03:10 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Capitals03 View Post
So are they leaving at the end of this season. Will they play in NY starting in Spet of 2013 ?
Nothing is yet publicly confirmed or finalized, so the answer to your question is "we don't yet know".

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02-26-2013, 04:11 PM
  #32
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http://blog.syracuse.com/crunch/2013..._to_utica.html

Quote:
The Calgary Flames, the franchise reported to be moving its affiliate from Abbotsford to Utica, has flat out denied anything is in the works.

And former NHL goalie and Whitesboro native Robert Esche, a main investor behind the effort to land an AHL team, said nothing is definite yet. Esche, though, remains optimistic that the possibility is a realistic one.
...
It appears that there's a group of promoters, lead by former Flyers goaltender and Utica-area native Robert Esche, who is exploring options with several NHL teams to locate an AHL team in Utica. They think Calgary is the most promising, because their affiliate (Abbotsford Heat) has been a perennial money loser, it is isolated as the only AHL team in its time zone, its attendance is adversely impacted by its close proximity to Vancouver, and it has horrendous scheduling and travel issues.
...
There are impacts with the Utica College and MVCC hockey programs to consider, both of which have agreements with the City extending several years. In the recent past Utica College has explored building their own arena on the campus, but no firm plans to do this have been made public.

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02-26-2013, 07:54 PM
  #33
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A reporter in Utica misunderstood what is happening. Utica is looking for a team, just like Glens Falls. But the Abbotsford president has said it is not happening. They are not moving.

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02-26-2013, 09:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sunking278 View Post
I wonder if a deal can be worked out where the Canucks and Flames simply agree to swap their AHL affiliations. In other words, Calgary gets the Wolves and Vancouver gets Abbotsford. Ideally, each franchise would have their minor league affiliates in close proximity. Ideally, the Chicago Wolves ought to be the affiliate of the Blackhawks. I must say, it is quite strange how this all works.
The Wolves and Blackhawks aren't on speaking terms. When the Wolves started in 1994, Bill Wirtz darn near had a stroke. The Hawks showed no games on local TV. Dollar Bill wanted everybody to buy a ticket to see his team. The Wolves won 4 cups, 2 IHL and 2 AHL, while the Hawks were bottom feeders until recent years.

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02-26-2013, 09:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Capitals03 View Post
So are they leaving at the end of this season. Will they play in NY starting in Spet of 2013 ?

Has any one been to Utica, NY. I don't think the players will be too happy. Utica is known for Couch burning parties. Go out in a field party all night bring your old couches and burn them at night so you do not have to take them back home...... No kidding.
I thought Utica was known for Utica Club beer and being the gateway to the Adirondack Mountains!

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02-26-2013, 10:08 PM
  #36
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I went to Utica, NY for the first time ever about 4 months ago and it's tough to believe such a city could support an AHL team.

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02-27-2013, 04:21 AM
  #37
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Lol the Shames relocating? WHAT A SHOCKER! How many places have they been in since 2000?

Utica? Obviously these people have never been there. It's a small college town with a D3 team, yeah this reeks of success.

BTW the original link looks like a cheesy blog.

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03-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #38
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Going back and forth with Jason Botchford of The Province on Twitter.

He seems to think that because the NHL club leases their players to the AHL franchise, which they do, the NHL club can also decide where that franchise plays. While he acknowledges Don Levin owns the Wolves, ownership apparently doesn't matter. The Wolves would just magically be playing in Abbotsford next year.

EDIT: His argument is based on the Heat being owned by a local ownership group, and NOT the Flames. An Abbotsford News article says the Flames own them, and everything I've read has led me to believe the same. There is no owner listed on the Heat's website or wiki page. The Flames wiki pages says the team owns the Hitmen, Stampeders and Roughnecks but doesn't mention the Heat.

So, in the words of Denis Lemieux, Who own da Heat?


Last edited by Rocko604: 03-01-2013 at 12:19 PM.
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Old
03-01-2013, 12:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
Going back and forth with Jason Botchford of The Province on Twitter.

He seems to think that because the NHL club leases their players to the AHL franchise, which they do, the NHL club can also decide where that franchise plays. While he acknowledges Don Levin owns the Wolves, ownership apparently doesn't matter. The Wolves would just magically be playing in Abbotsford next year.

EDIT: His argument is based on the Heat being owned by a local ownership group, and NOT the Flames. An Abbotsford News article says the Flames own them, and everything I've read has led me to believe the same. There is no owner listed on the Heat's website or wiki page. The Flames wiki pages says the team owns the Hitmen, Stampeders and Roughnecks but doesn't mention the Heat.

So, in the words of Denis Lemieux, Who own da Heat?
Well we know it's not that bum LeBrick James.

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03-01-2013, 01:32 PM
  #40
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The Heat have partial owners in the Flames, but the rest of the ownership is a ridiculous mystery group of local rich guys. That's the best I can get out of the question of who actually owns this team.

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03-01-2013, 05:35 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Hutch View Post
The Heat have partial owners in the Flames, but the rest of the ownership is a ridiculous mystery group of local rich guys. That's the best I can get out of the question of who actually owns this team.
Damn it, so Botchford is right, at least to a certain degree. As a Bruins fan, it kills me to say that.

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03-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by The Hutch View Post
The Heat have partial owners in the Flames, but the rest of the ownership is a ridiculous mystery group of local rich guys. That's the best I can get out of the question of who actually owns this team.
That sounds like in Wuad City with the QCSV

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03-01-2013, 11:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
That sounds like in Wuad City with the QCSV
Or Omaha with the Knights of Ak-Sar-Ben... or I think even in Saint John the Flames owned 50% of the team and local partners "owned" the other 50%.

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03-02-2013, 10:15 AM
  #44
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This wouldn't really impact the Wolves one way or the other. If for some reason, the Canucks were to leave for points west, Chicago would be without an affiliate for about 30 minutes. They're one of the best franchises in the league; someone would go in there.

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03-02-2013, 11:34 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
This wouldn't really impact the Wolves one way or the other. If for some reason, the Canucks were to leave for points west, Chicago would be without an affiliate for about 30 minutes. They're one of the best franchises in the league; someone would go in there.
Rum....According to Wolves GM Wendell Young, he's already had numerous calls from different teams in the NHL. It was in a newspaper article here in Chicago, wish i could remember which one, he said he was waiting to hear from Vancouver as to their intentions for the affiliation. He also said that he didn't want to wait until June/July and end up taking whoever was left.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think some of it, if not a lot, has to also do with the situation in Houston and what's going to happen there. if the Aeros end up leaving, then I could see it all working out like this......Calgary moves their team to Utica( we know it's happen before where a team will move,even under a current lease, if they provide a new team to take over said lease) Vancouver then needs a franchise to put in abbotsford, that's where Houston comes into play, Vancouver /Abbotsford then buys Houston franchise and moves it to Abbotsford along with the Vancouver prospects, Minnesota then moves their prospects to Chicago or somewhere else with another team coming into Chicago. Logistically Chicago/Minnesota makes sense, but who knows.

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03-02-2013, 03:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Rum....According to Wolves GM Wendell Young, he's already had numerous calls from different teams in the NHL. It was in a newspaper article here in Chicago, wish i could remember which one, he said he was waiting to hear from Vancouver as to their intentions for the affiliation. He also said that he didn't want to wait until June/July and end up taking whoever was left.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think some of it, if not a lot, has to also do with the situation in Houston and what's going to happen there. if the Aeros end up leaving, then I could see it all working out like this......Calgary moves their team to Utica( we know it's happen before where a team will move,even under a current lease, if they provide a new team to take over said lease) Vancouver then needs a franchise to put in abbotsford, that's where Houston comes into play, Vancouver /Abbotsford then buys Houston franchise and moves it to Abbotsford along with the Vancouver prospects, Minnesota then moves their prospects to Chicago or somewhere else with another team coming into Chicago. Logistically Chicago/Minnesota makes sense, but who knows.
This makes some sense out of the situation.

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03-02-2013, 06:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
This makes some sense out of the situation.
only problem w/ the example is Minnesota owns Houston, the Aeros are a legendary franchise, which is why it's outlasted 2 previous leagues (WHA/IHL); if you remember the deal w/ MSE who is the Wild they own 80%, not all of it, I don't see CGY bailing out of Abbotsford, and since when did we subscribe to the first rumored solution that's presented, the Aeros name isn't owned by the Wild, if Chuck Watson's still involved in the Aeros, that's where that issue lies.... what if Levin buys the Coyotes and moves into the SODO Arena w/ Hansen in Seattle?

it is no guarantee that Levin will even own the Wolves if he's been rumored to be involved around the Coyotes scenario even if Vancouver bails out or elects to move away from the Wolves.

We could see a similar scenario that played out w/ TNSE and Atlanta/Winnipeg/Manitoba/St. John's

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03-02-2013, 08:02 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
only problem w/ the example is Minnesota owns Houston, the Aeros are a legendary franchise, which is why it's outlasted 2 previous leagues (WHA/IHL); if you remember the deal w/ MSE who is the Wild they own 80%, not all of it, I don't see CGY bailing out of Abbotsford, and since when did we subscribe to the first rumored solution that's presented, the Aeros name isn't owned by the Wild, if Chuck Watson's still involved in the Aeros, that's where that issue lies.... what if Levin buys the Coyotes and moves into the SODO Arena w/ Hansen in Seattle?

it is no guarantee that Levin will even own the Wolves if he's been rumored to be involved around the Coyotes scenario even if Vancouver bails out or elects to move away from the Wolves.

We could see a similar scenario that played out w/ TNSE and Atlanta/Winnipeg/Manitoba/St. John's
The original Aeros folded after the 77-78 season. The penultimate season of the WHA. So yeah, they didn't outlast the WHA.

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03-02-2013, 11:26 PM
  #49
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What could potentially occur is that Aquilini (Canucks owner) is downright serious about buying the Abbotsford arena, and getting his own AHL franchise in there for the Canucks.

Wolves would stay in Chicago, Aquilini would buy this own team (maybe the Heat if the price is right), buy out the Heat lease, buy the arena from the City of Abbotsford, and affiliate the team with the Canucks.

It would certainly work great as a secondary venue to GM Place/Rogers Arena for events

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03-03-2013, 12:01 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
only problem w/ the example is Minnesota owns Houston, the Aeros are a legendary franchise, which is why it's outlasted 2 previous leagues (WHA/IHL); if you remember the deal w/ MSE who is the Wild they own 80%, not all of it, I don't see CGY bailing out of Abbotsford, and since when did we subscribe to the first rumored solution that's presented, the Aeros name isn't owned by the Wild, if Chuck Watson's still involved in the Aeros, that's where that issue lies.... what if Levin buys the Coyotes and moves into the SODO Arena w/ Hansen in Seattle?

it is no guarantee that Levin will even own the Wolves if he's been rumored to be involved around the Coyotes scenario even if Vancouver bails out or elects to move away from the Wolves.

We could see a similar scenario that played out w/ TNSE and Atlanta/Winnipeg/Manitoba/St. John's
Seriously????????????????......................... ...Seriously??????????????

Levin not owning the Wolves? Where'd you hear that juicy nugget? Funny.....A chicago tribune, chicago daily herald, and also a chicago sun-times article....(yes all 3 had articles) Don Levin was quoted as saying he has no intention of selling the Wolves and in fact was recently quoted in a different interview as saying he really would like to own an NHL team so that he'd have more control over players coming to the Wolves. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to get rid of the Wolves.....well maybe on bizzaro world it might.
Believe me.....my scenario has a much better chance at playing out before summer than a sale of phx and a move to an arenaless city in Seattle.

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