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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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03-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
I'm sorry, but Ryan O'Reilly is unreasonable in what way?

He stuck to his guns, and he was proven right; other teams were willing to not only pay him the $5m per he wanted, but exceed that as well.

I think it's pretty clear that Sherman and the Avs were the unreasonable ones, and now we sit here with O'Reilly making $1.5m more next year than he even wanted originally from us. Who was unreasonable, specifically with the information we now have like you said?
By reasonable I mean signing a long term extension at perhaps $5.25M-5.5M this summer.

O'Reilly has the right to take one year deals at $6.5M until he's 27. So based on how he handled himself during this negotiations he might feel entitled to $6.5M, which wouldn't be reasonable.

I understand this might have been as much about not backing down as about $, but Ryan O'Reilly has proven that money are very important to him. I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt going forward. I hope he'll be reasonable, but until he proves he can be I'll assume he'll try to get a 'win' at every cost.

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03-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
I'm sorry, but Ryan O'Reilly is unreasonable in what way?

He stuck to his guns, and he was proven right; other teams were willing to not only pay him the $5m per he wanted, but exceed that as well.

I think it's pretty clear that Sherman and the Avs were the unreasonable ones, and now we sit here with O'Reilly making $1.5m more next year than he even wanted originally from us. Who was unreasonable, specifically with the information we now have like you said?
To be fair to the Avs side of it... It wasn't 'other teams' it was Jay Feaster. lol Honest, I'm totally willing to gamble on him being ready to take a longer term 5M AAV contract as long as he earns it.

The scary thing is if he does not and earns something more like 4M AAV, does he take that long term or take the 6.5M Q/O or at least the 5.525 arbitration award? THAT is the scary side of things...

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03-01-2013, 11:12 AM
  #928
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Don't you guys think that O'Reilly would be traded next trade deadline?

I can't see the Avs trading Stastny if O'Reilly can't be signed..then you have Duchene as the only top 6 center.

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03-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #929
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You guys are crazy if you want to move Stastny right now. We're more unstable than the Catholic Church.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Don't you guys think that O'Reilly would be traded next trade deadline?

I can't see the Avs trading Stastny if O'Reilly can't be signed..then you have Duchene as the only top 6 center.
I don't know.

Stastny at 6.6 or O'Reilly at 6.5

I guess they have about a year to prove who is more worth the money.

The problem is that, even if O'Reilly proves to be the better value, the Avs might still trade him instead of Stastny. They are known to ship out holdouts at the first opportunity.

EDIT: Even if ROR signs an extension, he could still be traded. If Avs mgmt can't get over the holdout, they'll extend him and trade him anyway. He'd be easier to trade and more valuable if signed.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:16 AM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Don't you guys think that O'Reilly would be traded next trade deadline?

I can't see the Avs trading Stastny if O'Reilly can't be signed..then you have Duchene as the only top 6 center.
I don't ROR will still be a RFA. He might be overpaid at 6.5m for the next few years (or arbitration that lowers it slightly), but the Avs at least they know they have his rights in 14-15. Stastny can just say no and walk in 14-15. ROR won his fight with management and forced their hand. They won't like it, but I don't think they swallow the poison pill.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Don't you guys think that O'Reilly would be traded next trade deadline?

I can't see the Avs trading Stastny if O'Reilly can't be signed..then you have Duchene as the only top 6 center.
Everyone has their panties in a bunch because of our history with holdouts. While that's a somewhat relevant fear, every player is a little different.

The fact that they matched instantly has to say something as well. I mean hours, not a day or two even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I don't ROR will still be a RFA. He might be overpaid at 6.5m for the next few years (or arbitration that lowers it slightly), but the Avs at least they know they have his rights in 14-15. Stastny can just say no and walk in 14-15. ROR won his fight with management and forced their hand. They won't like it, but I don't think they swallow the poison pill.
Colorado will know Stastny AND O'Reilly's opinions on signing extensions THIS YEAR after July 1st or even before hand if they talk. Plenty of time to make the decision on who to move and or as to if they can keep both.

Hell they can know Stastny, O'Reilly, Duchene, Landeskog, and Varly's openness to extensions.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
I'm sorry, but Ryan O'Reilly is unreasonable in what way?

He stuck to his guns, and he was proven right; other teams were willing to not only pay him the $5m per he wanted, but exceed that as well.

I think it's pretty clear that Sherman and the Avs were the unreasonable ones, and now we sit here with O'Reilly making $1.5m more next year than he even wanted originally from us. Who was unreasonable, specifically with the information we now have like you said?
I respect you more than most posters on here, but it isn't right to say he was proven right. He was offered a contract by a gm fighting to keep his job. a 22 year old RFA shouldn't get paid that kind of money over a 2 year deal. I'm glad we have him back, whatever the cost but i certainly hope O'Reilly and the people around him don't feel he deserved to get what he got, while much better hockey players have agreed to less money much easier at that age.


Last edited by kento19: 03-01-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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Old
03-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #934
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The situation had gotten ridiculous, it's not surprising the solution was. I would first blame ROR's agent for playing hardball, the Avs management next for responding by playing hardball, the Flames for making a desperation stab, and then Ryan.

No way a player who works as hard as he does and who by all accounts seems to be a better human being than most suddenly becomes a greedy diva. You can't have a decision like this made in a vacuum, but I bet you that if he had to make his decision in the beginning without any advice he would have been signed quickly. I can't wait to see him back on the ice, we're going to be hard to play against again.

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03-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #935
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Some guy named Joe Sakic once signed an offer sheet and forced the organization's hand, too.

He never played a game for another team.

EDIT: No, I'm not comparing O'Reilly to Sakic, but the notion that a holdout or signing an offer sheet is the death kiss is exaggerated.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:21 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Some guy named Joe Sakic once signed an offer sheet and forced the organization's hand, too.

He never played a game for another team.

EDIT: No, I'm not comparing O'Reilly to Sakic, but the notion that a holdout or signing an offer sheet is the death kiss is exaggerated.
The way O'Reilly went about it was waaaay different than the way Sakic went about it, though.

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03-01-2013, 11:21 AM
  #937
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I don't know.

Stastny at 6.6 or O'Reilly at 6.5

I guess they have about a year to prove who is more worth the money.

The problem is that, even if O'Reilly proves to be the better value, the Avs might still trade him instead of Stastny. They are known to ship out holdouts at the first opportunity.

EDIT: Even if ROR signs an extension, he could still be traded. If Avs mgmt can't get over the holdout, they'll extend him and trade him anyway. He'd be easier to trade and more valuable if signed.
Understandable.

Does Colarado have to trade Stastny now that O'Rielly would be making big bucks next season?

They can just buy out Jones/trade him and retain 1M and sign Stastny.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:21 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
You guys are crazy if you want to move Stastny right now. We're more unstable than the Catholic Church.
It is more the notion that we can't have 3 $6+m centers on this team and still be successful. So get assets for one while you can. ROR can't be traded until next Feb 28. Duchene won't be traded. Stastny is the odd man out in that case.

I'm not against trading Stastny before the trading deadline, but I am not for it either. Let ROR take over the #2C spot for the rest of the season (if he can) and then trade Stastny at the draft. That is the best case scenario IMO.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Understandable.

Does Colarado have to trade Stastny now that O'Rielly would be making big bucks next season?

They can just buy out Jones/trade him and retain 1M and sign Stastny.
We have more than enough cap space to keep all of our centers including Jones at this point.

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03-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
I'm sorry, but Ryan O'Reilly is unreasonable in what way?

He stuck to his guns, and he was proven right; other teams were willing to not only pay him the $5m per he wanted, but exceed that as well.

I think it's pretty clear that Sherman and the Avs were the unreasonable ones, and now we sit here with O'Reilly making $1.5m more next year than he even wanted originally from us. Who was unreasonable, specifically with the information we now have like you said?
Another TEAM, as there was only one team willing to pay him his inflated demands. All it took is a retarded, desperate gm. O'Reilly won (i'm quite happy as well) but lets not make him out to be the good guy in all this.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #941
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I don't see us getting much value for Stastny on the trade market. He might be a rental next year, but that's about it. I wouldn't mind the Avs try and see if they can negotiate a lower deal to keep him around longer and see if he can be a utility C/W type of player, but I don't see that happening.

The Avs will have no choice but to ACTUALLY NEGOTIATE with O'Reilly this time around, so I think there's an actual chance he will stick around long-term. I won't hold my breath though.

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03-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #942
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
We have more than enough cap space to keep all of our centers including Jones at this point.
It isn't this year or even next year that is the issue. It is 14-15. Even then it can be worked, if Stastny wants to stay. That is the big question.

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03-01-2013, 11:27 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
To be fair to the Avs side of it... It wasn't 'other teams' it was Jay Feaster. lol Honest, I'm totally willing to gamble on him being ready to take a longer term 5M AAV contract as long as he earns it.

The scary thing is if he does not and earns something more like 4M AAV, does he take that long term or take the 6.5M Q/O or at least the 5.525 arbitration award? THAT is the scary side of things...
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Another TEAM, as there was only one team willing to pay him his inflated demands. All it took is a retarded, desperate gm. O'Reilly won (i'm quite happy as well) but lets not make him out to be the good guy in all this.
You guys are joking, right?

You think the Flames were the only team in the NHL ready to give O'Reilly his "demands($5m per)"? Anybody who traded for him was going to give him that contract, it was set in his agent's head and he knew it was going to happen.

Yes, the Flames are retarded($6.5m) and the Avs are tight assed($3.5m), but the majority of the league is in the middle. You do the math. Teams were going to pay O'Reilly his $5m per.

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03-01-2013, 11:27 AM
  #944
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Uhg... everyone seems one track now, and hell bent on burning our center depth. For what? Stastny isn't going to bring anything worth him, especially if he will sign a reasonable extension with us.

Center depth is seriously important if we want to compete when we finally do get good enough to make the playoffs.

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03-01-2013, 11:29 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Uhg... everyone seems one track now, and hell bent on burning our center depth. For what? Stastny isn't going to bring anything worth him, especially if he will sign a reasonable extension with us.

Center depth is seriously important if we want to compete when we finally do get good enough to make the playoffs.
This is the real question. If Stastny signs for $4.5-5m there is no issue. If he wants to maintain his $6.6 there is a real issue in keeping all 3. Remember, Duchene is going to get a $3+m raise and Landeskog, McGinn, and Varly are all going to get good sized raises as well.

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03-01-2013, 11:30 AM
  #946
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You guys are joking, right?

You think the Flames were the only team in the NHL ready to give O'Reilly his "demands($5m per)"? Anybody who traded for him was going to give him that contract, it was set in his agent's head and he knew it was going to happen.

Yes, the Flames are retarded($6.5m) and the Avs are tight assed($3.5m), but the majority of the league is in the middle. You do the math. Teams were going to pay O'Reilly his $5m per.
Over 2 years? I don't think so. If they're offering 5mil per its for at least 4 years. Likely longer.

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03-01-2013, 11:31 AM
  #947
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Over 2 years? I don't think so. If they're offering 5mil per its for at least 4 years. Likely longer.
Who said anything about 2 years? No team would trade for him and sign him to a 2 year deal. Come on.

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03-01-2013, 11:32 AM
  #948
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You guys are joking, right?

You think the Flames were the only team in the NHL ready to give O'Reilly his "demands($5m per)"? Anybody who traded for him was going to give him that contract, it was set in his agent's head and he knew it was going to happen.

Yes, the Flames are retarded($6.5m) and the Avs are tight assed($3.5m), but the majority of the league is in the middle. You do the math. Teams were going to pay O'Reilly his $5m per.
You do realize it's the 6.5M that people have a problem with right? Because of the Q/O problem it causes. O'Reilly signed that and had to know the leverage it would give him. As if a 5M guarantee wasn't enough?

You also see nothing but HF posters focusing on that 6.5M, I've already gotten annoyed with it on a few occasions. As if his cap hit is 6.5M not 5M.

Regardless, the 6.5M second year is what has people choking on this. No one believes hes going to be worth that NEXT year. But if he really is crazy he can force us to pay it, and it also drives his trade value into the fN dirt as well.

He signed for his bed and now he is going to have to lye in it, until he proves us otherwise.

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03-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #949
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Some guy named Joe Sakic once signed an offer sheet and forced the organization's hand, too.

He never played a game for another team.

EDIT: No, I'm not comparing O'Reilly to Sakic, but the notion that a holdout or signing an offer sheet is the death kiss is exaggerated.
I agree and disagree...I'm a bit torn. I think it's because I am an ROR fan that I want to believe he'll be here for the long haul.

But all the players who "forced the organization's" hand after Joe were shipped out. Historical Precedence is not on our (O'Reilly fans) side

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03-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #950
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Who said anything about 2 years? No team would trade for him and sign him to a 2 year deal. Come on.
So another team would pay 20M over 4 years.

Is that what the Avs are going to get him for?

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