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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
You do realize it's the 6.5M that people have a problem with right?
No, people had a problem with Ryan O'Reilly getting a penny over $4m-$4.5m, and his "demands" of $5m per were considered absolutely ludicrous on this forum.

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03-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #952
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No, people had a problem with Ryan O'Reilly getting a penny over $4m-$4.5m, and his "demands" of $5m per were considered absolutely ludicrous on this forum.
It was too much too soon. The fact that ONE gm out of 30 was desperate to try it on a offer sheet doesn't give Ryan "right" in this case. That's at least my opinion.

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03-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #953
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Who said anything about 2 years? No team would trade for him and sign him to a 2 year deal. Come on.
You said he was proven right. It's obvious that he is worth5 million if you're willing to go long term. The flames offered him a 2 year contract at 5 which is awful. They did this because they knew how much of an overpayment it was and hoped the avs wouldn't match.

Do you honestly think a team would sign a player to an offer sheet for exactly what they're worth? Obviously not since it would be a simple match.

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03-01-2013, 11:36 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
No, people had a problem with Ryan O'Reilly getting a penny over $4m-$4.5m, and his "demands" of $5m per were considered absolutely ludicrous on this forum.
That was then, this is now.

NOW people are concerned about the 6.5 that he's getting next year, and what it'll cost to retain him beyond that.

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03-01-2013, 11:37 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
It is more the notion that we can't have 3 $6+m centers on this team and still be successful. So get assets for one while you can. ROR can't be traded until next Feb 28. Duchene won't be traded. Stastny is the odd man out in that case.

I'm not against trading Stastny before the trading deadline, but I am not for it either. Let ROR take over the #2C spot for the rest of the season (if he can) and then trade Stastny at the draft. That is the best case scenario IMO.
We don't have 3, 6mil centers. We have 1 and two more making a combined 8.5mil.

There is nothing stopping O'Reilly from signing for 5x5 this summer (right?) and there is nothing stopping the Avs from extending Duchene at a discount (the dude loves this team, I'm pretty sure he'll accept less if we offer him a lengthy contract) at say, 5.5 x 6.

Stastny then re-signs for 5.5 (we set Duchy's contract as 'the bar', but this time it is high enough our good players don't feel jyped) and boom, we have a deep middle core for the next 5+ years. Once re-signed, we can consider moving Stastny if the right deal comes along.

Not sooner, not for any reason other than the right deal.

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03-01-2013, 11:37 AM
  #956
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You guys are joking, right?

You think the Flames were the only team in the NHL ready to give O'Reilly his "demands($5m per)"? Anybody who traded for him was going to give him that contract, it was set in his agent's head and he knew it was going to happen.

Yes, the Flames are retarded($6.5m) and the Avs are tight assed($3.5m), but the majority of the league is in the middle. You do the math. Teams were going to pay O'Reilly his $5m per.
I was under the impression that he just wanted more $$$ to play in the top 6. I figured he would've signed a cheaper contract with another team that had room in the top 2 lines.

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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Uhg... everyone seems one track now, and hell bent on burning our center depth. For what? Stastny isn't going to bring anything worth him, especially if he will sign a reasonable extension with us.

Center depth is seriously important if we want to compete when we finally do get good enough to make the playoffs.
He still could get a top 4 defender IMO. I'd rather the avs go with the more traditional 2 scoring lines and have the 3rd line more defensive. The defense is a wreck and needs a major overhaul.

You also have to take into account ice time, somebody is going to have to take the short end of the stick. I don't know about you but I would be pissed paying 5+ million for a 3rd line centre.

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03-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
That was then, this is now.

NOW people are concerned about the 6.5 that he's getting next year, and what it'll cost to retain him beyond that.
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.

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03-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
Thank you. Could not have said it any better myself.

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03-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
I agree he's worth 5 million long term, but weren't the avs willing to give him 5 per year over 5 years?

This is why i keep quoting you on the 2 year term the flames offered as an overpayment

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03-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
You keep dodging the question I keep posing, though.

People keep posting, hoping that the Avs will be able to extend ROR fpr 5x5 (or there abouts).

Do you see that as realistic? Do you see ROR fighting as hard as he did, and getting 6.5 next year, taking less on his next contract?

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03-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
Holy misrepresentation, Batman.

Everyone here knew O'Reilly would have gotten paid after his bridge deal, should he have signed it. Just as Duchene will get paid after his. Now O'Reilly has a bridge deal, even if it's far from what Avs imagined and people figure he'll get paid afterwards.

It's a perfectly consistent opinion.

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03-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #962
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I agree he's worth 5 million long term, but weren't the avs willing to give him 5 per year over 5 years?
Nowhere even close.

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03-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Stevekento19 View Post
I agree he's worth 5 million long term, but weren't the avs willing to give him 5 per year over 5 years?

This is why i keep quoting you on the 2 year term the flames offered as an overpayment
No, they offered 5 years for a total of 17M.

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03-01-2013, 11:46 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
I'd like to say I felt he was worth 4-4.25 for awhile, but I can't be sure I didn't have a bought of emotion swing in either direction in that regards.

But I really hope that now that O'Reilly has gotten what he considers his worth, he takes that and runs with it. Proving he deserves what he held out for and earning the long term contract at that price point. Because he's still not proven, even if he is talented enough to earn that money.

And if he has a solid quarter season and starts out next year equally as well, I hope he recognizes the value in having a team of strong players around him, rather than attempting to earn the biggest contract on the team and agrees to sign long term for a reasonable figure. Because if he plays like I think he will and he holds out again on us or demands more than 6mil, I think I'll puke.

There's not going to be a lot of competitive teams in the NHL paying more than 1-2 players 6mil or above for the next few years.

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03-01-2013, 11:47 AM
  #965
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Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
IMO it is all over now. ROR 'won' and it is just time to move on. The next negotiations are going to suck, but we can get arbitration this next go round. It won't be pretty, but that is an option. Any freaking out about the $6.5m QO is just crying over spilt milk. It is what it is, and there is nothing that can be done about it now.

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03-01-2013, 11:47 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Do you see that as realistic? Do you see ROR fighting as hard as he did, and getting 6.5 next year, taking less on his next contract?
And I told you, I don't have answers to those questions. I am not Ryan O'Reilly(I'm better looking, he knows that). I don't think it's realistic, no, but that's my opinion.

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03-01-2013, 11:50 AM
  #967
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And I told you, I don't have answers to those questions. I am not Ryan O'Reilly(I'm better looking, he knows that). I don't think it's realistic, no, but that's my opinion.
Right, we don't know what he'll ask for. And if he does ask for 6.5 or more per year, I have doubts that Avs FO will be willing to pay it.

So it would be unwise to let Stastny go before we do know.

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03-01-2013, 11:50 AM
  #968
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Holy misrepresentation, Batman.

Everyone here knew O'Reilly would have gotten paid after his bridge deal, should he have signed it. Just as Duchene will get paid after his. Now O'Reilly has a bridge deal, even if it's far from what Avs imagined and people figure he'll get paid afterwards.

It's a perfectly consistent opinion.
No.

Everybody knew O'Reilly was going to get PAID right now, forget the bridge deal... well, everybody except the Colorado Avalanche and the fanbase that has been hypnotized into believing this penny pinching crap.

Well, now the Avs know. A bit late to the party, and will be paying a substantial late fee.

A bridge is about getting you from one side to the other... in contract terms, a bridge deal is an amount in the middle that gives ground to "make it to the other side", aka the big payday.

If you still think this is a bridge deal, you're mistaken. Ryan O'Reilly has cashed in as an unrestricted free agent depsite being a 22 year old restricted free agent. The bridge was blown up and he launched himself to the other side.

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03-01-2013, 11:52 AM
  #969
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Sorry guys for making that proposal on the trade forum. I clearly underestimated how much logic Leaf fans have on this site.

Bozak as a better player than Stastny? Now I have heard everything. They're just so hypocritical, claiming Stastny sucks, but Gardiner's potential is absolute. Bozak is not a huge upgrade over Stastny just because they have the same point total currently. I understand why Dipietro thought about suicide after visiting the trade forum filled with leaf proposals.
I think it's a bit hypocritical of avs fans who complain about Stastny but then want a top prospect from another team. What's worse is rejcting and making fun of all those leaf proposals that actually look pretty good right about now.

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Could have asked first

No one is going to offer Stastny's worth on this forum. As far as anyone outside Colorado (and some of the fools around here) Stastny is garbage.

Btw, the real hypocrisy of it all is that Stastny is now worthless, Kadri is a god and somehow we don't even get any of the scraps they used to offer us. Bozak + Liles? Ahaha, the junk got downgraded to radioactive compost!
Kadri is not scraps, if that's what you were trying to say.

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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
I thought you said the 2 sides were close in August? Does this mean the avs were willing to pay 5 million but then decided against it? In any case, I have no problems of giving him 4/5 mill.

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03-01-2013, 11:53 AM
  #970
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Call this "changing my tune" or whatever,

Originally I was all for offering long term 4-4.25m/yr deal. Clearly that was below value, so now I'm ok with both sides in this
IF

1) A long term deal can get done in the 5m/yr range before the 6.5m QO becomes an issue.
and
2) ROR plays/practices/works to improve like he always has.

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03-01-2013, 11:55 AM
  #971
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Call this "changing my tune" or whatever,

Originally I was all for offering long term 4-4.25m/yr deal. Clearly that was below value, so now I'm ok with both sides in this
IF

1) A long term deal can get done in the 5m/yr range before the 6.5m QO becomes an issue.
and
2) ROR plays/practices/works to improve like he always has.
I don't see #2 as an issue. #1 concerns me, though.

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03-01-2013, 11:55 AM
  #972
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Right, so now everybody changes their stance. Hindsight is a lovely thing. A month ago, he wasn't worth a penny over $4m(or $3.5m according to management), now we're hoping he is willing to sign a long-term contract for $5-$5.5m. It's downright hilarious, no?

People, please... yes, the Flames splooged and made an absurd offer to him. However, the rest of the league are not like the Avs. O'Reilly was going to get his $5m per from WHOEVER traded for him. Those teams would not even bother giving up assets if that contract with O'Reilly wasn't set in stone, and that was ALWAYS going to be for a minimum of $5m per. His agency never budged from that.

We can point fingers all we want, but we look like clowns right now. Management, fans, everybody. We're all changing our tunes. I don't blame us, we're a passionate fanbase, but let's call a spade a spade.
Can we please have some insight into what happened to make him not budge from $5M?

Without any insight this makes him look insanely greedy to be demanding this coming off his ELC with one offensive season.

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03-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #973
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No.

Everybody knew O'Reilly was going to get PAID right now, forget the bridge deal... well, everybody except the Colorado Avalanche and the fanbase that has been hypnotized into believing this penny pinching crap.

Well, now the Avs know. A bit late to the party, and will be paying a substantial late fee.

A bridge is about getting you from one side to the other... in contract terms, a bridge deal is an amount in the middle that gives ground to "make it to the other side", aka the big payday.

If you still think this is a bridge deal, you're mistaken. Ryan O'Reilly has cashed in as an unrestricted free agent depsite being a 22 year old restricted free agent. The bridge was blown up and he launched himself to the other side.
You were suggesting that people who wanted to sign O'Reilly to the bridge deal and now are talking about wanting to extend him for $5M+/year somehow have changed their tune about O'Reillys worth. Which is wrong. Everyone always figured O'Reilly would make $5M+ on his long term deal.

It's possible to argue that O'Reilly was worth a two year $7M bridge deal and after that will be worth a much richer long term deal.

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03-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #974
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Can we please have some insight into what happened to make him not budge from $5M?

Without any insight this makes him look insanely greedy to be demanding this coming off his ELC with one offensive season.
It is known that Meehan doesn't support the established structure, where players have to wait to get paid what they are worth.

It looks like ROR believes this as well.

Have they put a crack in the walls of the existing RFA salary structure? I guess we'll see...

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03-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #975
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I still believe he would've budged IF management had bothered to sit down and negotiate. Would he have budged by much? Obviously not. But certainly enough for the Avs to save at least some $$$ and a lot of face.

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