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Montreal signs Francis Bouillon [1 year, $1.5M]

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:35 PM
  #301
The Doors
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Everyone knew that Bouillon would play hard, and play within his limits (and play often due to Therrien's glowing comments about him).

I think the disappointment when he was signed was due to the fact that many fans felt and still feel the defence lacks a big physical presence. Someone to clear the crease and let other players know, especially in the playoffs, not to **** around. The contradiction is that Bouillon is a tough man, and throws his weight around. But at 5'8" he is unfortunately somewhat limited in his effectiveness in that role. That's not to say he doesn't deserve a spot on the team. He definitely does and his steady play this year reinforces that.

The team still has a need for a tough as nails defenceman with a year or two on contract to help move away from the smurf stereotype and to keep other team's forwards honest.

Bouillon is similar to Gionta in that there's no doubt they play their ***** off and play hard with a definite chip on their shoulder, and you can't fault them for that. But there are eight defencemen on the team and not one of them is the kind of guy that is more of a "policeman" type, the kind of player we'll need in the next couple of months. Anyways, Bouillon has played very well and you can't dislike him. Maybe the bigger issue is having three similar players (Diaz, Weber, and Kaberle). One of those players needs to be the type of defenceman I'm talking about, until a season or two from now when Tinordi is here.

I think a likely trade is Weber for a gritty, veteran stay at home defenceman at the deadline from a non-playoff team. It's why Weber should be playing over Kaberle in order to let other teams know that we have a good young player here who just isn't going to get an opportunity. With Kaberle being bought out in the offseason, Bergevin has to decide whether he wants to let Weber (likely) flourish somewhere else, trade Kaberle's contract for another bad contract, or move a pick that he's stockpiled.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #302
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Frank the tank was always one of my fav habs....i was mad when he left.....
He always brought what he could every night,and laid some solid checks too......

glad he is back,hope he is back next yr and next and retires a hab.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #303
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
***BUMP***

So... Bouillon truly is a better D than Campoli eh?!

I am still wishing for 1. Gorges – Subban but Bouillon’s contribution can’t be overlooked: experience, he stands his ground, good hits, a surprising knack at sneaking in the slot, no BS/low maintenance player...

I can easily picture him in a Habs uniform in 2013-14. Ideally our (next season) 3rd pairing would be 3. Tinord – Diaz with Bouillon (#7D) as a great insurance policy.

Is everyone onboard with Bouillon as our 2013-14 #7D?

Oh... almost forgot... dinner is ready!

You quoted me, so I get to make a response:

1) I didn't like the deal at the time because it seemed passive and in light of a massively disappointing season. It seemed like a patchwork deal.

2) We had capspace to sign anyone and we signed a borderline 6th d-man.

3) He was/is buttbuddies with Michel Therrien and had we had a season most of us predicted we'd have (ie not top3 in the East with Pitts and Bos) MB, MT and Bouillon would be getting a lot of heat.

4) He's small and was never "good", always competant-at-best. Whereas Kaberle, diminished as he is, was once a top d-man in the league and was already our 6th d-man.

5) He was awful in his last stint on the Habs

6) We, rightly, assumed that he'd get way too much playing time. And we were right. Again, if we weren't winning or playing as well as we are, Bouillon would be getting a lot of heat.

It's just how it is with winning teams, the little deficiencies on the fringe lines don't really matter because those players are playing very well. That's what makes a good team good, the bottom lines out-playing other teams' bottom lines. Bouillon is playing well, much better than most would've assumed, and that's honestly great for the team. But...

If he was traded tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye - he's a spare part and he represents, or is associated, with a lot of negative imagery with the Habs: Nepotism, Smurf, Francophilia, patchwork reactionary roster management, Dandouillon, etc.

I remember vividly when Bouillon wouldn't clear the crease, as if he would purposefully watch players ram into Huet and score dirty goals constantly. He was brutal then and didn't even deserve to be in the league - somehow, somewhere, Trotz beat some sense into his head and he managed to stay in the bigs but don't get your facts mixed up here - playing with Subban on a winning team, anyone can look competent.

I don't doubt for a second that he's going to struggle mightily and have to be given soft minutes when we face PIT, BOS or any other team that can cycle in the o-zone.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:55 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doors View Post
Everyone knew that Bouillon would play hard, and play within his limits (and play often due to Therrien's glowing comments about him).

I think the disappointment when he was signed was due to the fact that many fans felt and still feel the defence lacks a big physical presence. Someone to clear the crease and let other players know, especially in the playoffs, not to **** around. The contradiction is that Bouillon is a tough man, and throws his weight around. But at 5'8" he is unfortunately somewhat limited in his effectiveness in that role. That's not to say he doesn't deserve a spot on the team. He definitely does and his steady play this year reinforces that.

The team still has a need for a tough as nails defenceman with a year or two on contract to help move away from the smurf stereotype and to keep other team's forwards honest.

Bouillon is similar to Gionta in that there's no doubt they play their ***** off and play hard with a definite chip on their shoulder, and you can't fault them for that. But there are eight defencemen on the team and not one of them is the kind of guy that is more of a "policeman" type, the kind of player we'll need in the next couple of months. Anyways, Bouillon has played very well and you can't dislike him. Maybe the bigger issue is having three similar players (Diaz, Weber, and Kaberle). One of those players needs to be the type of defenceman I'm talking about, until a season or two from now when Tinordi is here.

I think a likely trade is Weber for a gritty, veteran stay at home defenceman at the deadline from a non-playoff team. It's why Weber should be playing over Kaberle in order to let other teams know that we have a good young player here who just isn't going to get an opportunity. With Kaberle being bought out in the offseason, Bergevin has to decide whether he wants to let Weber (likely) flourish somewhere else, trade Kaberle's contract for another bad contract, or move a pick that he's stockpiled.
I love the human condition, myself included, especially when it comes to our passions.

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03-01-2013, 01:22 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Oh... almost forgot... dinner is ready!

Sorry, I don't eat crow when someone tries to feed it to me less than half way through a season, lol.

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03-01-2013, 01:50 PM
  #306
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You quoted me, so I get to make a response:

(...)

3) He was/is buttbuddies with Michel Therrien and had we had a season most of us predicted we'd have (ie not top3 in the East with Pitts and Bos) MB, MT and Bouillon would be getting a lot of heat.

(...)
True dat: if you were not wrong, you would be right!

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Sorry, I don't eat crow when someone tries to feed it to me less than half way through a season, lol.
No problem... I will keep it warm for you!

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:24 PM
  #307
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
True dat: if you were not wrong, you would be right!
You nitpick one statement from many of mine, and you don't even address the main point of that statement: The team is doing well so individual performances don't really matter as much as the big W.

Last season we kept losing one-goal games and most, 85%, of the board were ripping on this player or that player for whatever reason they could find - a habit we still see in losing GDTs - because SOMEONE has to be accountable for a goal against, or a loss. When we're winning individual mistakes don't really matter and can't even been noticed, especially on defence. Especially playing next to Subban. Individuals were not as bad as our record appeared last season and this season is represents that. Bouillon does not contribute all that much, though he has been playing very competently. It doesn't making the signing any more questionable at the time nor does it mean that we're better off with Bouillon than someone else.

I think you're trolling, or being pathetically myopic, by necro-bumping a thread, quoting a bunch of usually well-spoken posters and refusing to engage in a conversation when the opportunity presents itself.

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03-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You nitpick one statement from many of mine, and you don't even address the main point of that statement: The team is doing well so individual performances don't really matter as much as the big W.

Last season we kept losing one-goal games and most, 85%, of the board were ripping on this player or that player for whatever reason they could find - a habit we still see in losing GDTs - because SOMEONE has to be accountable for a goal against, or a loss. When we're winning individual mistakes don't really matter and can't even been noticed, especially on defence. Especially playing next to Subban. Individuals were not as bad as our record appeared last season and this season is represents that. Bouillon does not contribute all that much, though he has been playing very competently. It doesn't making the signing any more questionable at the time nor does it mean that we're better off with Bouillon than someone else.

I think you're trolling, or being pathetically myopic, by necro-bumping a thread, quoting a bunch of usually well-spoken posters and refusing to engage in a conversation when the opportunity presents itself.
Playing at a +6, 32 hits, almost a blocked shot per game, 4 assists and only two penalties taken. Two penalties on a team that is one of the most penalized in the League.

Just admit that you were wrong and move on.

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Old
03-01-2013, 02:39 PM
  #309
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You nitpick one statement from many of mine, and you don't even address the main point of that statement: The team is doing well so individual performances don't really matter as much as the big W.

Last season we kept losing one-goal games and most, 85%, of the board were ripping on this player or that player for whatever reason they could find - a habit we still see in losing GDTs - because SOMEONE has to be accountable for a goal against, or a loss. When we're winning individual mistakes don't really matter and can't even been noticed, especially on defence. Especially playing next to Subban. Individuals were not as bad as our record appeared last season and this season is represents that. Bouillon does not contribute all that much, though he has been playing very competently. It doesn't making the signing any more questionable at the time nor does it mean that we're better off with Bouillon than someone else.

I think you're trolling, or being pathetically myopic, by necro-bumping a thread, quoting a bunch of usually well-spoken posters and refusing to engage in a conversation when the opportunity presents itself.
Bouillon’s ratio of “contribution : cap hit” has been very advantageous from a team perspective; I am not trolling. You wrote “...The team is doing well so individual performances don't really matter as much as the big W...” and “... had we had a season most of us predicted we'd have (ie not top3 in the East with Pitts and Bos) MB, MT and Bouillon would be getting a lot of heat...” but you fail, big time, to realise that the team is doing well because, at various degrees, of guys like MB, MT and Bouillon.

If 2012-13 showed us one thing, it’s that this team badly needed more experience and toughness in its D squad. Bouillon, while waiting for Tinordi, clearly was a step in the right direction.

I think you have difficulties admitting your mistakes but, as I already told Ohashi_Jouzu: no problem, I will keep the crow dinner warm for you.

When you see "necro-bumping a thread", I see accountability.

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Old
03-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #310
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Playing at a +6, 32 hits, almost a blocked shot per game, 4 assists and only two penalties taken. Two penalties on a team that is one of the most penalized in the League.

Just admit that you were wrong and move on.
I've been wrong about some things so far but my reaction to signing Bouillon after such a painful season isn't wrong.

He' been playing well but don't get full of yourselves here - he's a tertiary character on a winning team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Bouillon’s ratio of “contribution : cap hit” has been very advantageous from a team perspective; I am not trolling. You wrote “...The team is doing well so individual performances don't really matter as much as the big W...” and “... had we had a season most of us predicted we'd have (ie not top3 in the East with Pitts and Bos) MB, MT and Bouillon would be getting a lot of heat...” but you fail, big time, to realise that the team is doing well because, at various degrees, of guys like MB, MT and Bouillon.

If 2012-13 showed us one thing, it’s that this team badly needed more experience and toughness in its D squad. Bouillon, while waiting for Tinordi, clearly was a step in the right direction.

I think you have difficulties admitting your mistakes but, as I already told Ohashi_Jouzu: no problem, I will keep the crow dinner warm for you.

When you see "necro-bumping a thread", I see accountability.
You're right, he's been playing well for his cap-hit.
You're also right that this team needs experience and toughness.
You're yet again right that a winning team is composed of all its elements working well.

You're wrong about everything else though.

Bouillon is performing well but he was a questionable-at-best signing at the time. No one credible would have the foresight to predict that the Habs would win, and win consistently in a lockout-season AND that MT's reign would have so few hiccups AND that Francis Bouillon had evolved as a hockey player.

Most of us remember him as a pathetic little smurf who couldn't clear the crease, couldn't do much of anything and was starring in the Dandouillon minstrel show. So no, I won't eat crow for not liking the signing.

It's worked well so far but that's it, he's a do-nothing who barely affects the overall team with his own individual skill - you might as well be praising Moen for playing competently. Or Gionta for our winning spirit (which you already do, which is laughable). We needed experience and stability on the backend and we could've gotten it from a variety of avenues, revisiting Bouillon wasn't one that I cared for at the time.

The day you find a quote from me that is definitive and self-righteous like most of the bipolar nutjobs who follow the Habs is the day I'll eat crow. Nothing is guaranteed in a game and some patience and temperance is needed in analysis - Frankie didn't seem like a good signing at the time for a BUNCH of reasons (which you still haven't address, above) and that's why I didn't like it at the time.

You should try holding accountable all the Subban haters during his little holdout (like SouthernHab!), the Halak-fellaters who wanted to crucify Price and burn his effigy, or the ones who keep quoting Pleks' "little girl line" and wanted to trade him over Desharnais last season. Not over Francis fkn Bouillon, the 5'8" 6th d-man of a winning team, playing safely and comfortably next to a hyper-mobile, highly talented stud in Subban.

If Bouillon was actually any good, he wouldn't have been let go by Nashville and he wouldn't have just gotten a tiny 1yr contract.

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Old
03-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #311
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MB and MT have obviously done a good job of finding pieces that fit. Bouillon has come in and played within himself, and so far, it fits perfectly

Its already working better than I thought it would. I originally thought he would be a 6/7 guy but he hasn't really given a reason to be benched.

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03-01-2013, 04:01 PM
  #312
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MB and MT have obviously done a good job of finding pieces that fit.
I thought so too........until the floater Michael Ryder was brought in. We play a swarm game, and he.....floats.

I don't see this working, certainly not with the Gallys or Eller.

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03-01-2013, 04:03 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post

(...)

Most of us remember him as a pathetic little smurf who couldn't clear the crease, couldn't do much of anything and was starring in the Dandouillon minstrel show. So no, I won't eat crow for not liking the signing.

(...)
Prior to signing with us, he had a regular shift on a strong NAS team.

I also noticed that you are often using “we” or “most of us”... as I mentioned, accountability is one of the best feature, through its search engine, of hfboards.

So when you wrote “...Most of us remember him as a pathetic little smurf who couldn't clear the crease, couldn't do much of anything and was starring in the Dandouillon minstrel show...”, I hope you realise that you are chatting about a few, but vocal hfboards posters here. Imo, most of us, Habs fans, always considered Francis Bouillon as a true warrior.

When we signed him, in terms of added experience and toughness to our D squad (remember Campoli?), while waiting for Tinordi, it clearly was a step in the right direction.

Deal with it.

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03-01-2013, 04:12 PM
  #314
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I thought so too........until the floater Michael Ryder was brought in. We play a swarm game, and he.....floats.

I don't see this working, certainly not with the Gallys or Eller.
I think this trade was made with a bigger picture in mind. Habs must think that this money can be better used elsewhere. Ryder will score some goals and do his thing, but I really believe he is nothing more than a rental.

At the core, this deal got rid of 2 years worth of salary, and brought in a 3rd round pick.

When the games get tighter and the intensity ramps up, I think I'd rather take my chances with Cole, than ryder... but like I said, I think there's a bigger picture in mind here, that goes beyond just this season.

MB got a bargain on subban, cole's salary is off the books. Gomez was bought out, and I speculate that kaberle could also be bought out after this year. All of a sudden, your cap situation is pretty flexible, even wit the cap going down. You can afford to give subban big money on his next deal, and explore the market with enough cash to be competitive for anyone, or take on salary for a potential trade that could work in your favor.


Last edited by Hackett: 03-01-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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03-01-2013, 04:14 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Prior to signing with us, he had a regular shift on a strong NAS team.

I also noticed that you are often using “we” or “most of us”... as I mentioned, accountability is one of the best feature, through its search engine, of hfboards.

So when you wrote “...Most of us remember him as a pathetic little smurf who couldn't clear the crease, couldn't do much of anything and was starring in the Dandouillon minstrel show...”, I hope you realise that you are chatting about a few, but vocal hfboards posters here. Imo, most of us, Habs fans, always considered Francis Bouillon as a true warrior.

When we signed him, in terms of added experience and toughness to our D squad (remember Campoli?), while waiting for Tinordi, it clearly was a step in the right direction.

Deal with it.
You keep avoiding the simplest arguments and creating freshman level strawmen. No one would prefer Campoli, no one even said as much - so don't bring it up.

Bouillon has nothing to do with Tinordi either.

When you're ready to answer or refute real assertions, get back here. Until then it's not worth anyone's time.

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03-01-2013, 04:20 PM
  #316
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Where are the Bouillon haters now?

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03-01-2013, 04:37 PM
  #317
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I remember on Free agency day there were some who were outrage at the 1.5M price tag. Looking back now that looks like a bargain

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03-01-2013, 04:47 PM
  #318
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Where are the Bouillon haters now?
"Hater"? I dunno. As adequately as he has filled his role, I still don't want him rounding out the top 6 of our team; especially come the post season.

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03-01-2013, 04:49 PM
  #319
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Where are the Bouillon haters now?
Look just above...

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03-01-2013, 04:51 PM
  #320
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"Hater"? I dunno. As adequately as he has filled his role, I still don't want him rounding out the top 6 of our team; especially come the post season.
While Bouillon might not be the ideal 6th D-Men...

It's totally irrelevant, since he's in the Top-5 so far.

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03-01-2013, 06:12 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I've been wrong about some things so far but my reaction to signing Bouillon after such a painful season isn't wrong.

He' been playing well but don't get full of yourselves here - he's a tertiary character on a winning team.




You're right, he's been playing well for his cap-hit.
You're also right that this team needs experience and toughness.
You're yet again right that a winning team is composed of all its elements working well.

You're wrong about everything else though.

Bouillon is performing well but he was a questionable-at-best signing at the time. No one credible would have the foresight to predict that the Habs would win, and win consistently in a lockout-season AND that MT's reign would have so few hiccups AND that Francis Bouillon had evolved as a hockey player.

Most of us remember him as a pathetic little smurf who couldn't clear the crease, couldn't do much of anything and was starring in the Dandouillon minstrel show. So no, I won't eat crow for not liking the signing.

It's worked well so far but that's it, he's a do-nothing who barely affects the overall team with his own individual skill - you might as well be praising Moen for playing competently. Or Gionta for our winning spirit (which you already do, which is laughable). We needed experience and stability on the backend and we could've gotten it from a variety of avenues, revisiting Bouillon wasn't one that I cared for at the time.

The day you find a quote from me that is definitive and self-righteous like most of the bipolar nutjobs who follow the Habs is the day I'll eat crow. Nothing is guaranteed in a game and some patience and temperance is needed in analysis - Frankie didn't seem like a good signing at the time for a BUNCH of reasons (which you still haven't address, above) and that's why I didn't like it at the time.

You should try holding accountable all the Subban haters during his little holdout (like SouthernHab!), the Halak-fellaters who wanted to crucify Price and burn his effigy, or the ones who keep quoting Pleks' "little girl line" and wanted to trade him over Desharnais last season. Not over Francis fkn Bouillon, the 5'8" 6th d-man of a winning team, playing safely and comfortably next to a hyper-mobile, highly talented stud in Subban.

If Bouillon was actually any good, he wouldn't have been let go by Nashville and he wouldn't have just gotten a tiny 1yr contract.
Boullion will not be the missing link that finally gets us a Stanley Cup. However, Boullion is one piece of the puzzle that Bergevin has put together that has helped this team.

He will not lead the team in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, assists. Again, however, he will contribute in a positive way. Much better than Kaberle, Weber or St-Denis.

We would have all loved to have had the team completely remade and all of our needs met in one off-season. But that is unrealistic. As said earlier, Boullion is playing a role until we can get what we truly need on the back end.

Oh, and with regard to your comment about my being a "Subban Hater". Go back and re-read that thread. I have always said and will always believe that Subban is a very talented DMan who I hope is a Hab for his entire career.

What you stated is a mis-truth. I simply believed and stated (still do) that Subban should be given a bridge contract instead of the big payday so Bergevin can use our cap money to build a better team.

That is not hating.

Oh, by the way.......wrong again. Bergevin is smarter than you.

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03-01-2013, 06:21 PM
  #322
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While Bouillon might not be the ideal 6th D-Men...

It's totally irrelevant, since he's in the Top-5 so far.
6th in ice time/game, btw. So top 6.

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03-01-2013, 06:27 PM
  #323
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6th in ice time/game, btw. So top 6.
Then I guess Brandon Gallagher is the 10th forward, or 10th best forward, on this team?

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03-02-2013, 02:55 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Then I guess Brandon Gallagher is the 10th forward, or 10th best forward, on this team?
In the depth chart? Probably pretty close. Harder to peg one guy among combinations of 2 or 3 out of 12 than it is one guy among combinations of 2 out of 6. That's just simple math. 3rd guy on the 3rd line would make him 9th anyway, so where's the huge stretch there? The 4th liners (Moen, White, Armstrong) are right after him, so yeah... looks about right.

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03-02-2013, 07:16 AM
  #325
habsfanatics
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Bouillon is easily a top 6 dman. I don't how those get the idea that he shouldn't be a top 6 have come to this conclusion. He's a great 6th dman, easily one of the better options. I loved the signing at the time and he's proven me right.

I'm not sure what some people's expectations for a 6th dman are, but Boulls will fill the role with ease.

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