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Ovechkin: would it work in Montreal?

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:34 PM
  #151
CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
He had a had trick last week but he's packing it in?
Because one good game explain the 20 others? Watch the game against Philly.

He has 6 points and only 2 goals in 12 games lost and 9 points and 6 goals in 7 games won.

It is quite clear that this team lives and dies by AO. He doesn't bring it every night anymore.

and by packing it in, I mean on a game by game basis.

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03-01-2013, 01:38 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The fact of the matter is that only one GM in the entire league was interested in Semin, and he was barely interested. That is anomalous... it shows that Washington destroys the reputation of Russians.

Anyhow, let us look at two analogies to what it would cost to acquire Ovechkin: Jagr and Thornton.

Jaromir Jagr was not performing with Washington and had a massive cap hit. They traded him for a bag of pucks (Anson Carter), and on top of that they agreed to pay 4 million in annual salary. Jagr went on to a 123 point season, is still playing competitive hockey at a top-6 level 9 years later, and Washington went on to build a legitimate contender which they were not going to do with Jagr. A good trade for both teams. The equivalent here would be the Habs offering a 2nd round draft pick and taking on all the salary.

Joe Thornton was not performing well enough for the Bruins. They were sucking. So he was traded to San Jose for Sturm, Stuart, and something else. Bruins went on to use the cap space on Chara and Savard, they drafted Kessel and Hamill as they recovered from the loss, and went on to win a cup. San Jose relied on Thornton to be one of the greatest regular season teams of recent decades. Good trade for both teams. The equivalent here would be the Habs offering Diaz, Bourque, and Leblanc.

No, let's look at another kind of trade. The trade you have in mind when you say the Habs would need to sell the farm to get Ovechkin. Let's look at the Lecavalier trade to the Habs that never happened, because it is an instructive example in GM mechanics.

The Lightning had an underachieving high-talent player signed to a high salary for the next 10 years or so. The Habs wanted him. The rumoured trade was Lecavalier for Subban, Plekanec, Gorges, Higgins and three 1st rounders (I think 2009, 2011, and 2013). The trade discussions were so advanced that we all heard about it. One possibility is that the Lightning said no because they wanted more, in which case they are idiots. Another possibility is that Gainey said no, but barely, in which case the Lightning management are idiots for not halving their demands. In hindsight, Plekanec alone or Subban alone would be worth Lecavalier. If Lightning management had done that trade or close to it, they would be dominating the Eastern Conference.

I don't know (and neither do you) if Washington's management has the foresight and wisdom that the management of Boston and old Washington did. They can build a future contender around Kuznetsov, Green, Backstrom, Forsberg, Carlson, Alzner, a 2013 top-5 pick, and 9 million in cap space (that is 8 fantastic pieces), which they won't be able to do if they keep the elephant in the room, in the room, where he's not happy. In which case Ovechkin is available and the Habs should bid to reasonable limits. However, Washington's management might also be idiotic and demand Pacioretty, Eller, Subban, Tinordi, and a couple 1st rounders for Ovechkin. In which case Habs management has a simple solution: Just say "No" and move on.
Excellent post! 2 things:
1) I don't think Tampa was asking for that much for Vinnie. If memory serves, it was 1 first rounder and 3 of those 4 players. Neither GM said no to the deal - it was one of the feuding owners that nixed it.

2) Regardless of the price it would cost to acquire him, Ovie's presence would be too much of a distraction from the concerted, we-all-row-together effort that has been so successful so far this year. I have my doubts about AO's desire to be a team player.

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03-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
Wow, beautiful post.
DAChampion, if you keep this up im gonna start a DAChampion fan club.

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03-01-2013, 01:44 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
I have my doubts about AO's desire to be a team player.
You may be right in that, but perhaps he simply doesn't want to be a Washington Capitals player anymore. A change of scenery could do him some good. I have my doubts that Ovi want's to go his entire career looking like a coach-killer, or a pariah in the room who couldn't lead his team anywhere significant. Who seriously thinks Michel Therrien wouldn't set this guy straight? Not that he needs it. He want's to win above all else, and occasionally there comes a time when maybe it is best for both sides if they both just moved on.

You think he is happy Crosby has the Stanley Cup, Olympic golds to go along with his personal accolades? Sooner or later Ovechkin is going to buy into the team concept, and perhaps a trade would speed up the process.

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03-01-2013, 02:12 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Because one good game explain the 20 others? Watch the game against Philly.

He has 6 points and only 2 goals in 12 games lost and 9 points and 6 goals in 7 games won.

It is quite clear that this team lives and dies by AO. He doesn't bring it every night anymore.

and by packing it in, I mean on a game by game basis.
At the start of the season, Ovechkin is put on his off wing and told to learn.

That game against Philly was horrible for pretty much everyone on the Caps.

The team lives and dies on him but was never built for him. He's in the same situation Mats Sundin was in Toronto. And no surprise, some people blamed Sundin instead of the GM, coach and other players.

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03-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #156
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Beaulieu Gionta 1st 2nd rounder

That's what i'd offer for Ovechkin

The difference between Ovy and Gionta's salary is Kaberle right now.

Ovy would thrive in mtl i don't think he lost his intensity he just became too predictable, but that's something you can change.

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03-01-2013, 03:06 PM
  #157
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What purists! Does anyone remember that in his last few seasons with the Habs Guy Lafleur wasn't playing at a superstar level?

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03-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #158
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NO, NO and NO - Ovie is NOT what we are willing to sell the future for - short term benefit would not mean long term gain! This will be a BUILT TEAM for the long haul ... bottom up!

OVIE is about OVIE ..... not the TEAM concept we want! Not at ALL! See how SUBBAN is being "reigned" in again .....(minutes)! and I applaud that philosophical change from new start - FA's with big buck will bring us to the Holy Land Gainey **** that brought a lack of identity and desperation! We know who the boss is now and WHO will earn ice time! The player that DESERVES it!

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03-01-2013, 09:51 PM
  #159
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The same guy lafleur who despite playing with no one still led the team in scoring.From 1980-84 was the leading pts getter for Montreal despite missing more than 60 games.Led the team in scoring in his poor years despite playing under Bob Berry and lemaire in his final season.

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03-01-2013, 11:52 PM
  #160
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A player who is half the player he used to be, who is disinterested, who is not worth the money he is getting paid, who has no interest in playing defence. You tell me if we need him?

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03-02-2013, 12:52 AM
  #161
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MB said he wants to build a team with draft choices.

I would be surprised to see him give his 1st for Ovechkin.
To me Bergevin clearly stated his priorities and I expect him to follow what he said.

This being said, it is possible that he would do a trade to acquire Ovy but I don't see it happening.
Anyone would be interested to add Ovechkin to their line-up.

Last trade ended up with one more draft pick.
For now I see 17 scouts + Timmins, Dudley, Carriere.
I also see a first round, 3 second round picks and 2 third round picks.

Just repeating MB words and looking at his actions.

BTW, Caps SCap (cute... Caps caps) next season is 47M (13 players).
On the Habs side, IF you remove Kaberle, we are the lowest amount top 15 in committed money (With the Leafs (13 players) and Detroit (17 players)). Habs, Leafs and Wings are the only teams with a lot of space to bring in a 9M SCap...

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03-02-2013, 01:20 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not saying Milbury is wrong on Ovechkin playing like crap. I'm saying he's wrong by saying all those other things such as him needing to be embarrassed.

You kind of prove my point with Kovalchuk. Kovy got a ''lot'' of heat in Atlanta. His production didn't drop as much as Ovechkin's but he was labeled as an individual player who couldn't lead his team anywhere.
He left, signed with the Devils where he was a disappointment for the first year of his contract. He still isn't producing to the expectation of his contract imo, but he has been well integrated into the new team and filling his role. I don't think the Devils are playing the defensive style they once did, and certainly not the one Washington was trying to implement.

But the point about Kovalchuk is, he joined a team that had leadership in place. He wasn't the guy the whole team was build around. Sure, he's that major superstar that comes in, but the Devils had players that had been around for ages, Parise, Elias, Langenbrunner, Pandolfo, Brodeur, on top of the management group in place.
Nobody was gonna let Kovalchuk come in, be a puck hog, pout and play like crap.

That's my point with Ovechkin. They handled this kid absolutely wrong in Washington.
They made him into a huge rock star. Think Kovalchuk times 5 in Atlanta.
Now they're trying to rectify this but I don't think hiring a rookie coach was the smartest decision. The guy needs to have a change of scenery. Go somewhere with a strong leadership group. I mean, I doubt Ovy plays like crap if he's moved to Detroit. I doubt he'll take as much space on the team too. It won't be Ovechkin's team, just like it isn't Kovalchuk's team.

As for the Russian thing, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the media.

Whether or not he should come here, well, first off this really depends on what he would cost us in return. This guy is a huge talent, I don't think he lost his skills and desire to play. I think a change of scenery will do him wonders, like it did so many players before him.
I really don't like his contract, but that's Molson's problem, not mine. I wouldn't be so quick to turn away from having the chance to land such massive talent. The only hesitation is that we're starting to build something very nice here, so I'm not sure if the timing is right. But as I said, I still would have a hard time passing on if the price was right.
ok, not entirely, but you convince me. good post.


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03-02-2013, 11:52 AM
  #163
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Depends on Washington's demands. Likely not because they still value him as a superstar, while we would want to pay value based on recent productivity.

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03-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #164
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Thought about it again, if they retain some salary 100% sure I want him. If they do not but the deal is still fair 99% sure I want him.

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03-02-2013, 02:53 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by sammy d View Post
A player who is half the player he used to be, who is disinterested, who is not worth the money he is getting paid, who has no interest in playing defence. You tell me if we need him?
We could a guy a 26yr old guy with no major injury history that is playing near PPG and was a 100+ pt player 2 years ago. A guy that has been clearly a top3 player in the world his entire career.

In fact to not want Ovechkin on any team is a bit lunatic. ''What have you done lately'' is not how you build a powerful hockey team. Did you want to buy out Bourque and/or Markov before the season started as well per chance?

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03-02-2013, 02:56 PM
  #166
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The biggest hurdle isn't Montreal but Washington. Washington knows they would have been relocated if it wasn't for Ovechkin. He saved that franchise. He saved that city. Moving him away, there's absolutely nobody who could replace that stardom. The only team who could possibly move a player that would do it is if Pittsburgh swapped him Malkin or something. I could see Winnipeg putting together an awesome package including Evander Kane who'd be great in Washington but even then, Kane can't replace Ovechkin.

However, if Washington got dumb and was willing to risk their franchise and wasn't going to demand Price, Subban, Markov or Galchenyuk? I'd think long and hard at the offer.

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03-02-2013, 03:21 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
We could a guy a 26yr old guy with no major injury history that is playing near PPG and was a 100+ pt player 2 years ago. A guy that has been clearly a top3 player in the world his entire career.

In fact to not want Ovechkin on any team is a bit lunatic. ''What have you done lately'' is not how you build a powerful hockey team. Did you want to buy out Bourque and/or Markov before the season started as well per chance?
I agree with you 100%.

I would definitely love to have a player like Ovechkin on the habs, since he's incredibly talented, and he's proved it many times before. To only look at his play this year and disregard his whole career is a bad way to evaluate him, or any player in fact.

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03-02-2013, 03:24 PM
  #168
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Bergevin is trying to build a TEAM. So Ovechkin cannot be part of that plan.

He's overpaid like crazy and he is dreamiong of going back to play in the KHL for the rest of his life. Russian women are great, by the way.

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03-02-2013, 03:26 PM
  #169
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I agree with you 100%.

I would definitely love to have a player like Ovechkin on the habs, since he's incredibly talented, and he's proved it many times before. To only look at his play this year and disregard his whole career is a bad way to evaluate him, or any player in fact.
Before this season, 2011-12 was the worst of his career. Before that, it was 2010-11. The arrows are not pointed in the right direction.

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03-02-2013, 03:57 PM
  #170
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Bergevin is trying to build a TEAM. So Ovechkin cannot be part of that plan.

He's overpaid like crazy and he is dreamiong of going back to play in the KHL for the rest of his life. Russian women are great, by the way.
I can understand he'd prefer Russia's feminine department to Washington's but I'm sure he'd have no qualms with Montreal's selection.

As for the team concept I'm sure world class goal scoring superstar is something we could use. He wouldn't have to block shots and play PK here, we have players that can do that. Goal scoring is part of the team concept - he'd look pretty good on Galchenyuk's wing wouldn't he?

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Originally Posted by Roulin
Before this season, 2011-12 was the worst of his career. Before that, it was 2010-11. The arrows are not pointed in the right direction.
Yeah he only scored 38 goals last year. What a punk.

The Capitals as a whole are far less efficient offensively than they used to be. Its not just about Ovechkin - Semin, Backstrom and Green all had their production drop dramatically. When that happens you don't just look at the players, you look at the system in place. If the Capitals want to move Ovechkin they are doing the wrong thing and giving us an opportunity for a tremendous ''buy low'' move. You don't buy stock when its at an all time high, you buy when its abnormally low and expect it to go back up.

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03-02-2013, 04:06 PM
  #171
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Yeah he only scored 38 goals last year. What a punk.

The Capitals as a whole are far less efficient offensively than they used to be. Its not just about Ovechkin - Semin, Backstrom and Green all had their production drop dramatically.
The trajectory of his goal scoring is important, when considering a player under contract for the next 9 years... but it's not the only facet of his game that's been steadily declining. He doesn't dominate possession or move the puck through the neutral zone like he used to either. And in the context of the team's decline, losing Semin hurts, but IMO Ovechkin's part is more cause than effect.

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03-02-2013, 04:09 PM
  #172
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I can understand he'd prefer Russia's feminine department to Washington's but I'm sure he'd have no qualms with Montreal's selection.

As for the team concept I'm sure world class goal scoring superstar is something we could use. He wouldn't have to block shots and play PK here, we have players that can do that. Goal scoring is part of the team concept - he'd look pretty good on Galchenyuk's wing wouldn't he?



Yeah he only scored 38 goals last year. What a punk.

The Capitals as a whole are far less efficient offensively than they used to be. Its not just about Ovechkin - Semin, Backstrom and Green all had their production drop dramatically. When that happens you don't just look at the players, you look at the system in place. If the Capitals want to move Ovechkin they are doing the wrong thing and giving us an opportunity for a tremendous ''buy low'' move. You don't buy stock when its at an all time high, you buy when its abnormally low and expect it to go back up.
So, you want Scott Gomez, part II, in Montreal again ? Way better to keep our money and to develop our own superstars: Galchenyuk, Price, MaxPac, Subban, & cie...

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03-02-2013, 04:12 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
So, you want Scott Gomez, part II, in Montreal again ? Way better to keep our money and to develop our own superstars: Galchenyuk, Price, MaxPac, Subban, & cie...
I love how scoring 38 goals last season means you're Gomez II.

Gomez II is Brad Richards.

The idea that Ovechkin cannot be a team player is ridiculous. Alex Ovechkin right now is Mats Sundin when he was a Maple Leaf. By far the best player on the team but it's on a team not built around his style of play. I think he'd be at home in Montreal but it's not happening anyway. Much like Federov he'll never play here.

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03-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I love how scoring 38 goals last season means you're Gomez II.

Gomez II is Brad Richards.

The idea that Ovechkin cannot be a team player is ridiculous. Alex Ovechkin right now is Mats Sundin when he was a Maple Leaf. By far the best player on the team but it's on a team not built around his style of play. I think he'd be at home in Montreal but it's not happening anyway. Much like Federov he'll never play here.
Thanks God(s) !

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03-02-2013, 05:12 PM
  #175
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So, you want Scott Gomez, part II, in Montreal again ? Way better to keep our money and to develop our own superstars: Galchenyuk, Price, MaxPac, Subban, & cie...
I'd be extactic if MaxPac's best year is as good than Ovechkin's worst year.

He's an excellent example of a guy in need of a scenery change.

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