HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Dallas Stars
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gulutzan/Jerrad Fired + New Coaching Search Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2013, 11:25 PM
  #251
Modo
Global Moderator
Mo'Benn
 
Modo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,461
vCash: 627
Apt bumpage.

Apt.

__________________
If you're telekinetic and you know it, clap my hands!
Modo is offline  
Old
02-28-2013, 11:35 PM
  #252
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
We're pretty much at the midway point, and most people have speculated the short season would keep some coaches behind the bench rather than being fired. Despite Ruff, that seems to be trend at this point. No one's poaching Desjardins this season probably.

If they are going to make a coaching change ... just wait until the season is over. Texas is too good right now, and we all know how much a long playoff run helped Jamie Benn.

I'm not saying this season is over in the NHL yet, but if they don't make the playoffs, Texas will get flooded with talent. They get four huge pieces in Eakin, Smith, Roussel, and Dillon. I assume Oleksiak and Benn will already be back there when the D get healthy.

Add to that talent, Ritchie, Vance and Jokipakka are probably locks to get added. My guess is Winkler comes in, and you could see Klingberg or Molin coming over.

Texas is poised for a deep, deep run. You want Desjardins leading the way.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:46 AM
  #253
Troy McClure
Registered User
 
Troy McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The KlINGberg
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 26,224
vCash: 500
Firing Gully won't solve anything. He's dealing with an odd roster, a mix of a few really old guys and a whole lot of very very young guys.

I'm not sure another coach would get much more out of this group.

Yeah, he should have moved Morrow off the first line earlier in the game or season, but that wouldn't have mattered tonight. Benn and Jagr played like crap, so there was no linemate to rescue their poor performances.

Troy McClure is online now  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:47 AM
  #254
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,757
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
At least we don't have to worry about Benn sucking defensively!

Frozen Failure is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:50 AM
  #255
Troy McClure
Registered User
 
Troy McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The KlINGberg
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 26,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
At least we don't have to worry about Benn sucking defensively!
You should make Benn plural.

Troy McClure is online now  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:55 AM
  #256
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Firing Gully won't solve anything. He's dealing with an odd roster, a mix of a few really old guys and a whole lot of very very young guys.

I'm not sure another coach would get much more out of this group.

Yeah, he should have moved Morrow off the first line earlier in the game or season, but that wouldn't have mattered tonight. Benn and Jagr played like crap, so there was no linemate to rescue their poor performances.
True ... but they only gave him 2 years with a 3rd year option for a reason. It's hard to say he's done enough to earn a 3rd year. With the same results and an even weaker team ... Crawford didn't get the benefit of the doubt.

I wasn't sure that it would be playoffs or fired for Gully and GM Joe early on, but it seems like that could a reality.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 01:11 AM
  #257
Hull Fan
trou du cul rapide
 
Hull Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Country: Albania
Posts: 5,798
vCash: 500
Not saying this is an option but if I've got to choose between Gully and Willie, I'll take Willie. He's got a much better track record and obviously knows how to coach kids. Well there are a ton of kids on this team and coming in the next few seasons.

I'm not saying Gully is the main problem. I just don't think he's part of the solution.

Hull Fan is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 01:26 AM
  #258
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 18,477
vCash: 500
Not gonna let Willie's AHL success do anything for me. Gulutzan took a worse Texas team to the CCF, seems like pretty much everyone here forgot that.

LatvianTwist is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 01:27 AM
  #259
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Not gonna let Willie's AHL success do anything for me. Gulutzan took a worse Texas team to the CCF, seems like pretty much everyone here forgot that.
That was not a bad team. They had no prospects, but they had a ton of veterans. The D was stacked, and they had top AHL goalies.

You must have missed most games since mid-January. It's a skeleton crew because of the NHL and injuries. They're a better team right now with most people out of the lineup than they were earlier in the year.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 08:22 AM
  #260
MetalGodAOD
Moderator
Star Rangers
 
MetalGodAOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 12,927
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
That was not a bad team. They had no prospects, but they had a ton of veterans. The D was stacked, and they had top AHL goalies.

You must have missed most games since mid-January. It's a skeleton crew because of the NHL and injuries. They're a better team right now with most people out of the lineup than they were earlier in the year.
The point still stands though that you'd be replacing one coach you hired due to AHL success for another.

MetalGodAOD is online now  
Old
03-01-2013, 08:31 AM
  #261
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
The point still stands though that you'd be replacing one coach you hired due to AHL success for another.
You can twist it anyway you want. AHL coaches are the ones most often tapped to be NHL head coaches. When an NHL coach fails, you've got to go somewhere for new talent.

No offense .... but this is just silly logic honestly. How is any different than a good AHL player getting called up to the NHL only to find out he can't hang in the top league. That happens ... all the time. You don't reinvent the wheel because one prospect can't make the jump and never use the AHL development path again.

It's absurd. Of course being a top coach in the AHL is going to make you a top candidate for an NHL job. Yeah that doesn't guarantee future NHL success, but it sure doesn't mean you pause before hiring the next top AHL coach.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 08:36 AM
  #262
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
In this hypothetical where Gully is fired... I'm not saying they have the go the AHL path BTW. If they sign some veteran retread coach that could work too. They're is just no reasonable logic to say AHL coach A failed in the NHL so now we need to stay away from AHL coaches. There is no doubt that Willie Desjardins will be in the mix for the job in Dallas. If he doesn't get it, it has absolutely nothing to do with Glen Gulutzan being a former AHL coach.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 08:52 AM
  #263
MetalGodAOD
Moderator
Star Rangers
 
MetalGodAOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 12,927
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
In this hypothetical where Gully is fired... I'm not saying they have the go the AHL path BTW. If they sign some veteran retread coach that could work too. They're is just no reasonable logic to say AHL coach A failed in the NHL so now we need to stay away from AHL coaches. There is no doubt that Willie Desjardins will be in the mix for the job in Dallas. If he doesn't get it, it has absolutely nothing to do with Glen Gulutzan being a former AHL coach.
Agreed. I'm just saying if you hire Willie its because he is doing the same thing Gully did 3 years ago. I agree with LT, a lot of people forget about Gulutzan's success in Texas.

MetalGodAOD is online now  
Old
03-01-2013, 09:24 AM
  #264
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
You can twist it anyway you want. AHL coaches are the ones most often tapped to be NHL head coaches. When an NHL coach fails, you've got to go somewhere for new talent.

No offense .... but this is just silly logic honestly. How is any different than a good AHL player getting called up to the NHL only to find out he can't hang in the top league. That happens ... all the time. You don't reinvent the wheel because one prospect can't make the jump and never use the AHL development path again.

It's absurd. Of course being a top coach in the AHL is going to make you a top candidate for an NHL job. Yeah that doesn't guarantee future NHL success, but it sure doesn't mean you pause before hiring the next top AHL coach.
It's not absurd. You only have one head coach at a time, you have 18 skaters per game and a goalie. Players can also be sent down, recalled, sent down, recalled, etc. I don't find your comparison a good one.

I know the point you're trying to make, but the nature of the head coach position is such that if you fire a guy who was most recently an AHL head coach who may be somewhat lacking in commanding the locker room (just my take), there's a good chance you want more of a steady hand in his replacement, someone who walks into the job with some clout around the league.

In any case, we can all probably agree that a rookie GM probably doesn't get to make three head coaching hires. That means none of us really know the philosophy of whatever new GM we would have.

glovesave_35 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 10:27 AM
  #265
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Glove ... I think what you're saying is the opposite of what LT and Metal originally said. I agree with you that Dallas (not necessarily Joe since he could be gone) might want a guy you described. That's a reasonable point.

I don't agree with using Gulutzan's AHL past as a reason to discount Willie Desjardins. Just doesn't makes any sense to me. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty. Desjardins is an older coach with much more head coaching experience. He's had huge success in the CHL (specifically the WHL which I believe is the best of the three leagues). Honestly though ... I'm just starting to sound like I'm campaining for a particular guy, and that's not my goal.

Something probably is wrong with the coaching, but to me something bigger is wrong with the organization. Three coaching staffs and several player purges have yielded the exact same results. I hate that GM Joe's tenure with the exception of essentially one season .. a short one at that .. was marked by bankruptcy. Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe he holds his job if they don't make the playoffs. Coaching is obviously only a part of the overall problem.

That's why I've essentially changed my previous opinion , and we should probably expect some desperation/disappointing moves. GM Joe and Gully need to win at all costs probably, and I don't think that's whats best for the organization at this moment.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 11:09 AM
  #266
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Glove ... I think what you're saying is the opposite of what LT and Metal originally said. I agree with you that Dallas (not necessarily Joe since he could be gone) might want a guy you described. That's a reasonable point.

I don't agree with using Gulutzan's AHL past as a reason to discount Willie Desjardins. Just doesn't makes any sense to me. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty. Desjardins is an older coach with much more head coaching experience. He's had huge success in the CHL (specifically the WHL which I believe is the best of the three leagues). Honestly though ... I'm just starting to sound like I'm campaining for a particular guy, and that's not my goal.

Something probably is wrong with the coaching, but to me something bigger is wrong with the organization. Three coaching staffs and several player purges have yielded the exact same results. I hate that GM Joe's tenure with the exception of essentially one season .. a short one at that .. was marked by bankruptcy. Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe he holds his job if they don't make the playoffs. Coaching is obviously only a part of the overall problem.

That's why I've essentially changed my previous opinion , and we should probably expect some desperation/disappointing moves. GM Joe and Gully need to win at all costs probably, and I don't think that's whats best for the organization at this moment.
My take is that from the top down this organization needs eyes that have viewed it flail from the outside for a handful of years now. I actually think Willie will be a good NHL coach, and if he keeps up what he's doing he'll get that shot somewhere sooner or later.

I fear desperation moves too but honestly at this point I'm starting to view this team as a sort of sitcom that hangs around a few seasons after its best years. The writing has really gone downhill since 2008.

glovesave_35 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #267
tjcurrie
Registered User
 
tjcurrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gibbons, Alberta
Posts: 3,536
vCash: 500
If Willie is hired as head coach one day, it's not specifically for the reasons we as outsiders can list. The guys on the inside (Joe, Tom, etc) they know him personally. There's a lot that goes on that we're not privy too. A lot more than just a resume consisting of coaching history and numbers. Otherwise why bother with interviews?

I'll forever be curious as to why Kirk Muller wasn't hired.

tjcurrie is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:06 PM
  #268
Hull Fan
trou du cul rapide
 
Hull Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Country: Albania
Posts: 5,798
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
My take is that from the top down this organization needs eyes that have viewed it flail from the outside for a handful of years now. I actually think Willie will be a good NHL coach, and if he keeps up what he's doing he'll get that shot somewhere sooner or later.

I fear desperation moves too but honestly at this point I'm starting to view this team as a sort of sitcom that hangs around a few seasons after its best years. The writing has really gone downhill since 2008.
I'm hoping Mark Recchi is that voice of reason going forward. There's no telling how much pull he'll have but he's not blinded by past affiliation with this club and other than Whitney and Cole has no ties to the old guard here.

Hull Fan is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:17 PM
  #269
StarsFan74
Registered User
 
StarsFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: India
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I'm hoping Mark Recchi is that voice of reason going forward. There's no telling how much pull he'll have but he's not blinded by past affiliation with this club and other than Whitney and Cole has no ties to the old guard here.
From Spectorshockey: "Look for the Carolina Hurricanes to trade for a veteran defenseman over the next few days.

Recchi pulling strings?

StarsFan74 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #270
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
From Spectorshockey: "Look for the Carolina Hurricanes to trade for a veteran defenseman over the next few days.

Recchi pulling strings?
That's 2 days old, and it's actually from Kevin Allen of USA Today. Regardless ... Recchi is an employee of the Dallas Stars. Unless you're suggesting Dallas is about to trade a veteran D which does seem a bit unlikely, this doesn't have anything to do with Dallas.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #271
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,780
vCash: 500
Let's remember that the depp playoff success Gully had was when Benn came down to absolutely **** on the AHL playoffs. Not to mention the team had veteran talent from around the league with VERY experienced AHL players.

The powerplay was still ****** when he was here, and looking at how he's doing now, I"m amazed at how well he had the team going here. Makes no sense at all.

Willie has a track record of being a fantastic coach who's great with growing younger players, and molding them into talent. I'm not sure if that would translate to the NHL, but I can tell you the players here ****ing love him.

We still need a Tortorella in Dallas. This team has absolutely ZERO discipline. The only way to change that is to either bring in a system where players don't feel behind on certain aspects of the game or bring in a coach who will put some fear into lackluster play (Hitchcock, Laviolette, and Tortorella)

Cin is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #272
Fly Like a C5
Registered User
 
Fly Like a C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post

We still need a Tortorella in Dallas. This team has absolutely ZERO discipline. The only way to change that is to either bring in a system where players don't feel behind on certain aspects of the game or bring in a coach who will put some fear into lackluster play (Hitchcock, Laviolette, and Tortorella)
Ideally, Dallas would bring in a Tortorella type coach for 2 or 3 seasons to instill discipline and then hire someone like Willie to take over once Tortorella starts to wear out his welcome. Let Tortorella be the bad guy and fix the issues while Willie continues to develop prospects in Austin.

Fly Like a C5 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 02:26 PM
  #273
StarsFan74
Registered User
 
StarsFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: India
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
We still need a Tortorella in Dallas. This team has absolutely ZERO discipline. The only way to change that is to either bring in a system where players don't feel behind on certain aspects of the game or bring in a coach who will put some fear into lackluster play (Hitchcock, Laviolette, and Tortorella)
Looking at how the NYRs are currently going through offensive troubles with Torts at the helm, I doubt if he'll fit in with JN's vision for the team. He most definitely is one of those folks who will hold the individuals accountable, inculcate discipline on the ice, and groom the young ones to pitch in defensively and block shots, but sooner or later, the players are bound to tune him out. I don't see Torts lasting long in NY.

StarsFan74 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #274
BigG44
Registered User
 
BigG44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
Ideally, Dallas would bring in a Tortorella type coach for 2 or 3 seasons to instill discipline and then hire someone like Willie to take over once Tortorella starts to wear out his welcome. Let Tortorella be the bad guy and fix the issues while Willie continues to develop prospects in Austin.
I got to say there's nothing ideal about another 2 or 3 year coach.

The players and fans have been getting jerked around for 5 years. Good teams don't change coaches this often.

Dallas has lacked clear direction and identity since Tippett. I still believe it was probably time to move on, but hell maybe not if you're telling me Dallas could have 4 different coaches in 7 or 8 years (2-Crow; 2 Gully; 2 or 3 of the next guys; then we hire another).

At some point, the new owner has to decide if GM Joe can define one path for the team. If he can't ... they are going to replace him. It'll be disappointing because I still believe Nieuwendyk will be a good GM. It's silly to discount the bankruptcy issue, but he may need to be fired once to find his way. Whoever they replace Joe with can't go looking for a 2 or 3 year stop gap coach, and honestly if they are going to replace Joe I'd like it to happen sooner rather than later. I know they won't, but the new guy should be making the decisions at the trade deadline if Joe is getting replaced. It shouldn't be the old guy trying to save his job.

BigG44 is offline  
Old
03-01-2013, 02:47 PM
  #275
Fly Like a C5
Registered User
 
Fly Like a C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I got to say there's nothing ideal about another 2 or 3 year coach.

The players and fans have been getting jerked around for 5 years. Good teams don't change coaches this often.
Dallas isn't a good team. Good teams have discipline and accountability. Good teams make the playoffs. Good teams don't make excuses. Dallas needs a Tortorella or Hitchcock style coach. This team doesn't have the talent to overcome multiple defensive lapses each game. They need a coach who is a hard a$$. The problem is that coaches like Tortorella have a shelf life. Eventually players get fed up and quit listening. Tortorella or Hitchcock cannot be the long term solution. I see nothing wrong with bringing in a coach for several seasons to effect specific changes.

Fly Like a C5 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.