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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread V

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:26 AM
  #326
Hawkey Town 18
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Am I up?

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:33 AM
  #327
TheDevilMadeMe
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Am I up?
yess

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:02 AM
  #328
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Just to make sure everyone realizes it:

Now on a 6 hour clock.

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:29 AM
  #329
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I probably should do a little more research, but I'm tired and have to wake up early. We're going to go with Gilles Tremblay, LW

Extremely fast and strong, good forechecker, backchecker, and PKer. Impressive AS finishes of 3, 4, 5, 6, 9. One drawback is a career cut short at age 30 because of injuries and asthma.


Bio by BBS

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:33 AM
  #330
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Oh man looks they're gonna go back to back again this year.

I'll take RW, Jim Pappin



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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I probably should do a little more research, but I'm tired and have to wake up early. We're going to go with Gilles Tremblay, LW

Extremely fast and strong, good forechecker, backchecker, and PKer. Impressive AS finishes of 3, 4, 5, 6, 9. One drawback is a career cut short at age 30 because of injuries and asthma.


Bio by BBS
I don't remember the specifics, but CS58 had some flattering posts about him.

I didn't save the link, but I read an article earlier this year about Tremblay, retired as a commentator, criticizing Rousseau's (I think) work on Beliveau's wing. He was saying you had you to stay in your lane and just play up and down, but not too close to the boards or it was too easy for you to get neutralized by defenders. Seems like he really was a smart guy who knew how to play his role effectively.


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Old
03-01-2013, 02:58 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I recently asked the same guy (a "Russland Deutscher" or a Russian-German...one of the descendents of the Germans who settled the Volga river in the 18th and 19th centuries, and who were forced into labor camps mostly in Khazakstan under Stalin and later allowed to return to Germany after the wall came down) who told me that about Balderis about what was up with Petrov, and he confirmed that part of the disconnect between Petrov's scoring and his reputation may have come from his conflicts with Soviet coaching. But it wasn't V_T. He said Petrov didn't get along very well with the Soviet coach who ran the team in-between Tasarov and V_T, and that was the reason for his suspension in the 1976 world championships.
Firstly, brilliant stuff!

I guess the coach would be Boris Kulagin then (the head coach of the ntl team in 1976 - except for the 1976 Canada Cup)? Or Konstantin Loktev (the heach coach of CSKA and the assistant coach of the national team in 1976)

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He also said that Petrov was never consistently physical and let his linemates do a lot of the work, but was strong, liked to run guys occasionally and could be quite vicious when angered. About Kharlamov's all-around game, he said that Valeri was very much an end-to-end winger before the first car crash in 1976 (which was a bad year for Soviet hockey, all around), but became much more cautious in the corners and generally lazier after that time. He said Shadrin was a great worker, terrific with his stick, always buzzing around in the neutral zone and was very dangerous in the counterattack, but could be easily pushed off the puck in the offensive zone (sounds a bit like Edgar Laprade, or a poor man's Pavel Datsyuk).
Okay, I can admit that I have mixed up physicality and strength somewhat, when evaluating Petrov.
I have to say, though, that I've seen many games where Petrov works VERY HARD in every part of the ice (e.g. the 1978 'final' vs. Czechoslovakia), so to the suggestion that Petrov was lazy I can't fully accept. Maybe he picked his games, I don't know.

Valery Kharlamov wrote an autobiography around 1978 and I remember him critisizing Petrov a little bit in the book. He mentions that Petrov once scored a goal from a very unusual angle. After that, for a long time, Petrov would try to repeat the trick and would shoot from the same spot again and again and again, even though it was totally unnecessary/stupid. So Kharlamov complains about Petrov's "stubborness".

Quote:
edit: one more thing about Petrov. He said that Maltsev was tried centering Kharlamov and Mikhailov (didn't he center them in the 1972 Summit Series?), but that the experiment was short-lived and the chemistry wasn't there. He didn't say why, but I suspect this would be a problem of Maltsev and Kharlamov both being fairly puck-dominant. Petrov was the best center they had at CSKA and had played with his wingers for so long at the club level that the unit was left together on the national team for a long time even though Soviet coaches were in general not big fans of Petrov.
Bolded. In game 3 only. Otherwise, Maltsev mostly centered Kharlamov and a certain other RW.

Hmmm, there are at least some games where Mikhailov, Maltsev and Kharlamov had quite brilliant chemistry in my opinion: that 1 Summit Series game and the 1976 Super Series game vs. Boston. Although to me it looks like the chemistry wasn't as good between Maltsev and Mikhailov as between Maltsev and Kharlamov.

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Old
03-01-2013, 03:43 AM
  #332
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Firstly, brilliant stuff!
Thanks. I had a chance to talk to this guy (who is a colleague of mine) off work last weekend, and basically couldn't stop asking him questions. My wife eventually got sort of embarassed that I was quizzing this poor man about hockey games from forty years ago, but his wife just smiled like she had been through this before. He seemed really surprised at my knowledge of Soviet hockey, and I think that got him talking. I will seriously try to actually interview him with a tape recorder so that I can produce a transcript which is at least in some ways systematic in terms of question-answer format. The information this guy's got in his head is golden - much too valuable for me to present it in a way which could be easily dismissed. If I can ever pull it off, I think it would be amazing. I may open a thread and ask some knowledgeable posters if they have any specific questions they'd like me to ask. You would obviously be one of the people whose questions I would take.

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Okay, I can admit that I have mixed up physicality and strength somewhat, when evaluating Petrov. I have to say, though, that I've seen many games where Petrov works VERY HARD in every part of the ice (e.g. the 1978 'final' vs. Czechoslovakia), so to the suggestion that Petrov was lazy I can't fully accept. Maybe he picked his games, I don't know.
Based on what Viktor said, it sounds like Petrov was a player whose motivation was somewhat uneven, likely because of his own personality and conflicts with the Soviet coaches. Sounds like he could play an aggressive physical game, but did not naturally do so as Mikhailov did.

Quote:
Valery Kharlamov wrote an autobiography around 1978 and I remember him critisizing Petrov a little bit in the book. He mentions that Petrov once scored a goal from a very unusual angle. After that, for a long time, Petrov would try to repeat the trick and would shoot from the same spot again and again and again, even though it was totally unnecessary/stupid. So Kharlamov complains about Petrov's "stubborness".
This fits with Viktor's remarks about the slap-shooting and how it angered the coaching staff. Apparently, Petrov was something of an iconoclast who did not fit perfectly into the Soviet system, and may have been, as Kharlamov said, somewhat stubborn.

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Old
03-01-2013, 04:49 AM
  #333
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Just think about how great a stats Petrov would have had if he was'nt so stubborn and uneven then. Although i cant say i've found that in his game-by-game statistics but i'll have to dig some more.

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Old
03-01-2013, 04:56 AM
  #334
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Just think about how great a stats Petrov would have had if he was'nt so stubborn and uneven then.
It's certainly possible. I don't really know what to make of this new information about Petrov - whether it raises or lowers his value, overall. I will have to ask Viktor for more overall stylistic information on the players when he has the time.

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03-01-2013, 04:59 AM
  #335
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It's certainly possible. I don't really know what to make of this new information about Petrov - whether it raises or lowers his value, overall. I will have to ask Viktor for more overall stylistic information on the players when he has the time.
Yes do that, to fill in some contradictory stuff about him. Not the least ask him if he saw some Super Series-games and others against professionals, since Petrov at least by the stats i have managed to hunt down was constantly producing very well there.


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Old
03-01-2013, 07:10 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
He and Barrasso were the two goalies I settled on after deciding to slum it in net.
Well, we think alike. We had Tom Barrasso and Chuck Rayner atop of our list, with a little drop afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
and I have Leaf Landers' pick:
The Toronto Maple Leafs are pleased to select, Tod Sloan, C/RW
I know he should of drop a bit from where I took him a few drafts ago, but that's an excellent pick at this point.

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Sloan has very little written about his defence and most of his best years are at centre. As an energy liner, he's a stud, beyond that. I don't know.
Tod Sloan was a defensive player in Chicago at the end of his career. In his prime in Toronto, not so much. He definitely have enough offensive credentials to be more than an energy player.

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Kenora picks Eric Nesterenko
One of these days I will select him and make a biography on him!

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This post (#324 the one right above) is super long for the draft thread. Please move it to the bio thread so everyone doesn't have to scroll up and down so much. Thanks.
It's my biography of Sloan two drafts ago. At least he could of quote my biography to have the proper formatting.

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Old
03-01-2013, 07:40 AM
  #337
Hawkey Town 18
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Kenora was skipped about an hour ago. I'll PM the next GM

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:38 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Kenora was skipped about an hour ago. I'll PM the next GM
Sorry about that...

Kenora is pleased to select:

Hap Holmes (G)

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:38 AM
  #339
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Kenora picks Hap Holmes G

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Old
03-01-2013, 09:03 AM
  #340
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Quote:
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Sorry about that...

Kenora is pleased to select:

Hap Holmes (G)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Kenora picks Hap Holmes G
You guys may have to outscore your problems in net..

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Old
03-01-2013, 09:24 AM
  #341
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Now that they are all selected, our list for #1 goaltender was:

Tom Barrasso
Chuck Rayner
----
Hap Holmes
Harry Lumley

The way we built our team, we wouldn't of been comfortable with any other goaltenders.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #342
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HC Donbass selects Duncan Keith, D

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #343
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HC Donbass selects Duncan Keith, D
Id be worried that he's a one year wonder in ATD terms.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:50 PM
  #344
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Id be worried that he's a one year wonder in ATD terms.
1, 6, 9, 11 is a pretty good Norris record for the other guys that are being selected right now.

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #345
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1, 6, 9, 11 is a pretty good Norris record for the other guys that are being selected right now.
Yes, it is, and Keith has already played seven full, healthy NHL seasons. He's getting to the point now where we have to take him seriously as an ATD player. I think he's a good bottom-pairing puckmover.

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03-01-2013, 01:00 PM
  #346
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HC Donbass selects Duncan Keith, D




Not really I guess, but I was thinking about him!

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #347
Hawkey Town 18
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Keith's 2008-09 season is underrated by Norris and AS placements. I think he was a top 4 defenseman that year...tied for 2nd in ES pts (2 behind an undrafted), best +/- among Dmen, facing his opponents' top lines every night, 8th in TOI/G. He didn't get used as much on the PP that year which hurt is overall point total, and therefore his rewards finishes.

He is also having his best season since his Norris year this year. He's not at 2010 level, but he's having a really nice season and IMO a strong Norris/AS contender, especially considering how well his team is doing.

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03-01-2013, 01:52 PM
  #348
TheDevilMadeMe
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Keith is 3rd in minutes played since the 2005-06 lockout, though first on that list probably won't be drafted because he never had an outstanding peak like Keith did.

I think he's an excellent #5 who really isn't so far from Randy Carlyle.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yes, it is, and Keith has already played seven full, healthy NHL seasons. He's getting to the point now where we have to take him seriously as an ATD player. I think he's a good bottom-pairing puckmover.
Calling him a "puck-mover" makes it sound like he's weak in his own end, which he is not. I know there are a lot of people who thought Keith should have been 2nd Team All Star over Dan Boyle in 2008-09 because he was better in his own zone.

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #349
EagleBelfour
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It would be interesting to see the breakdown during Duncan Keith and Shea Weber. Keith was definitely on our radar at 472. He's definitely not out of place at this point. Actually, what makes another 1-time Norris winner, Randy Carlyle, go over 100 picks over Keith?

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #350
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Keith is 3rd in minutes played since the 2005-06 lockout, though first on that list probably won't be drafted because he never had an outstanding peak like Keith did.

I think he's an excellent #5 who really isn't so far from Randy Carlyle.



Calling him a "puck-mover" makes it sound like he's weak in his own end, which he is not.
He's not exactly Harry Howell, either, though.

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