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Old
03-01-2013, 12:59 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Back then you could pay a player a can of beans and they'd play...

And Pollock was too smart to trade him. Ken Dryden might actually be the best goalie of all-time. Doesn't get any credit because of the team in front of him but Ken Dryden has almost as many shutouts as he does losses... that's incredible.
There was only one goalie I felt was better in the 70s (in the NHL*) and that was Bernie Parent. Esposito might have been just as good and before Dryden, Glenn Hall was absolutely dominant but I don't remember him as much as the stories about him. But in the 70s, it was Dryden and Parent and as an Islanders fan I wanted both of them. Billy Smith was still pretty good

*I say in the NHL because if you were a kid in the 70s and weren't a xenophobe, you agreed that Tretiak was the best goalie you ever saw.

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03-01-2013, 02:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MoobMoob View Post
Honest question, not meant to question Price's ability at all. He doesn't seem to either cost or win games for us IMO. The consistency is nice, but shouldn't an arguably top 5 goalie in the league steal a game or two a season?
Lately, he hasn't been required to steal a game. I think Price's biggest asset is his consistency. For the amount of games he plays, he allows very few soft goals over the course of the season. There are goalies out there who can steal you some games over the course of the season but cannot provide the season to season consistency that Price is providing. Fleury, Ward,and Pavelec come to mind right away.

Its up to you what you would rather prefer.

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03-01-2013, 02:24 PM
  #78
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There was only one goalie I felt was better in the 70s (in the NHL*) and that was Bernie Parent. Esposito might have been just as good and before Dryden, Glenn Hall was absolutely dominant but I don't remember him as much as the stories about him. But in the 70s, it was Dryden and Parent and as an Islanders fan I wanted both of them. Billy Smith was still pretty good

*I say in the NHL because if you were a kid in the 70s and weren't a xenophobe, you agreed that Tretiak was the best goalie you ever saw.
Tretiak didnt' win the cup by himself in 1971 though...

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03-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Tretiak didnt' win the cup by himself in 1971 though...
He never had the chance. If Tretiak did cross to North America in 1983, the Canadiens still would have won a Cup in 1986. Maybe another in 1984 as well. I was legitimately afraid when I heard the Canadiens drafted Tretiak.

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03-01-2013, 02:39 PM
  #80
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I dunno when the last time he stole a game was but he has definitely held us in a lot of games for us to win or come to win. Let me ask you this?

When was the last time Price HAD to steel a game?

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03-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #81
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The 1-0 win vs. Florida, big goaltenders battle that game vs. Theodour, pretty sure we won in a shoot out to.

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03-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MoobMoob View Post
Seems about right to me. I'm happy with the consistency. Though I don't think they're necessarily two sides to the same coin. I'm happy with his play. Just think in order to prove himself as the undisputed #1 tender in the league he should dominate a game or two, rather than simply keeping his team from losing.
Its been said many times, the most important stat for a goal tender is wins.
making key saves and giving your team a chance to win every night. ie. Grant Fuhr from the Oilers days in the 80s. his stats were mediocre but the win column was high.
Price is a very technical goaltender relies heavily on being in the right place at the right time, cuts angles perfect, will give a shooter an area to score but the shooter will have to make a perfect shot. Low key and keeps emotions at bay. Because of this I think he makes a lot of saves look easy where as a "reaction" style goalie like Thomas makes some average shots look like great saves.

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03-01-2013, 02:52 PM
  #83
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The 1-0 win vs. Florida, big goaltenders battle that game vs. Theodour, pretty sure we won in a shoot out to.
I was an OT goal by bourque. I'd probably call that a goaltender's dual more than a steal. I can't say that Florida thoroughly dominated that game. All in all, montreal held the edge of play in that game, although the panthers were coming on late.

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03-01-2013, 03:06 PM
  #84
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carey makes saves look so easy that they don't look like game changers but they are.

He constantly covers pucks and almost never creates rebounds, thus again making highlight reel saves a lot less frequent. People should look at how difficult some shots are to not give out a rebound, which he does on a regular basis.

Top 5 goalie in the world without a doubt and probably the best at controlling rebounds.

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03-01-2013, 03:13 PM
  #85
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It's because he's in position and so calm that saves that would have had a goalie like Halak sprawling all over the night are handled calmly and directed into the corner. He hasn't had to "steal" a game because we've been good enough there hasn't been much opportunity, and because the definition of "steal" is pretty wishy washy. A lot of those "game saving" saves you see from other goalies are because of a bad rebound. Price doesn't give up those bad rebounds in the first place.

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03-01-2013, 04:34 PM
  #86
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Price doesn't rob other teams, he quietly picks their pocket.

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03-01-2013, 05:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
carey makes saves look so easy that they don't look like game changers but they are.

He constantly covers pucks and almost never creates rebounds, thus again making highlight reel saves a lot less frequent. People should look at how difficult some shots are to not give out a rebound, which he does on a regular basis.
This.

Price's calmness and focus takes him to the upper echelon of NHL goaltenders, because it gives him the ability to take that extra step with every save to either direct the puck to safety after a save, or cover the puck at the right time. He is surely one of the best in the NHL on rebounds. I noticed this a couple of years ago, and it became evident when watching how other goaltenders play, especially our backups.

The easiest way I can sum it up is... Price makes life easy for his defencemen.

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03-01-2013, 05:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
HFBoards circa 1977:

Ken Dryden doesn't steal us games. Discuss...
When Price wins cups we can talk.

Also, didn't Dryden win a Conn Smythe ?

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03-01-2013, 05:18 PM
  #89
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Exactly this. Hasn't happened recently because price hasn't needed to bail us out. This is no longer a team that needs to rely on him to win every game.
Yeah but he also didn't play very well in the NYI loss and the Ottawa loss. Two games where we outplayed the opponent and played sound defensive hockey. Two games we should have won.

Price has been protected really well this season. The team has played GREAT defense in front of him. We have 3rd fewest shots/game. There are 2-3 games that we lost despite outplaying the opponent. I'd expect Price to win those games where we outplay the opponent and play sound defensive hockey. Right now, any goalie (EDIT: any legit NHL starters) would have the type of record he has. He has not been exceptional. The team has played great in front of him.

I'm sure everyone will claim that I hate Price so I can't admit he's been good, but why can I admit he was great in 2010-11 if that's the case ? I just think Price has been solid, above average but not one of the very best, as usual.


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03-01-2013, 06:13 PM
  #90
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Pretty much every game we won last season would be a pretty good sample.
Damn straight! I remember last year when it was clear we were toast people were complaining that price was playing too well or at the very least keeping us in games when everyone was hoping for a surgical tank.

This year he has not had to steal any games for us. I am sure that it will come but he has played great even with long periods of inactivity. I'm sure he would have liked to have the Ottawa first goal back.

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03-01-2013, 06:47 PM
  #91
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Yeah but he also didn't play very well in the NYI loss and the Ottawa loss. Two games where we outplayed the opponent and played sound defensive hockey. Two games we should have won.

Price has been protected really well this season. The team has played GREAT defense in front of him. We have 3rd fewest shots/game. There are 2-3 games that we lost despite outplaying the opponent. I'd expect Price to win those games where we outplay the opponent and play sound defensive hockey. Right now, any goalie (EDIT: any legit NHL starters) would have the type of record he has. He has not been exceptional. The team has played great in front of him.

I'm sure everyone will claim that I hate Price so I can't admit he's been good, but why can I admit he was great in 2010-11 if that's the case ? I just think Price has been solid, above average but not one of the very best, as usual.
Non-sense, non-sense, completely non-sense! I dare you to talk about Jesus-Price like that again! blasphemia! Carey is the second coming, the next Roy and beyond! The Molson Cup he won this month is the proof he is the ONLY reason the Habs are no1 in the east. There is NOT a SINGLE goal he allowed who were soft this year, always the fault of our d-man.

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03-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #92
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This is more a testament as to how we've played than a knock on Price imo.

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03-01-2013, 06:57 PM
  #93
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Moob is a coy troll. The only possible reason for asking such a question is to discredit Price's performance this year. You read the same garbage on the M. Brunet blog. Very consistent with the Price haters which will never go away.

So Price hasn't stolen a game this year therefore if Price would be an elite goalie, the Habs would be undefeated. Halak certainly would of stolen game....

The Gainey/Gainey regime really mishandled Price and many other prospects. From bringing up Price/Subban too soon, trading McDonough, even rushing Leblanc last year. You can see the difference with the Bergevin era, principles are established and followed. You earn your spots - down to rookies having to earn their place before they can choose their numbers. Nothing is left to chance.

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03-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Maelpj View Post
Non-sense, non-sense, completely non-sense! I dare you to talk about Jesus-Price like that again! blasphemia! Carey is the second coming, the next Roy and beyond! The Molson Cup he won this month is the proof he is the ONLY reason the Habs are no1 in the east. There is NOT a SINGLE goal he allowed who were soft this year, always the fault of our d-man.
You are very clever.

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03-01-2013, 07:14 PM
  #95
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Yeah but he also didn't play very well in the NYI loss and the Ottawa loss. Two games where we outplayed the opponent and played sound defensive hockey. Two games we should have won.

Price has been protected really well this season. The team has played GREAT defense in front of him. We have 3rd fewest shots/game. There are 2-3 games that we lost despite outplaying the opponent. I'd expect Price to win those games where we outplay the opponent and play sound defensive hockey. Right now, any goalie (EDIT: any legit NHL starters) would have the type of record he has. He has not been exceptional. The team has played great in front of him.

I'm sure everyone will claim that I hate Price so I can't admit he's been good, but why can I admit he was great in 2010-11 if that's the case ? I just think Price has been solid, above average but not one of the very best, as usual.

You know he can't win them all. Of course he played some bad or weaker games nobody is denying that. He's not perfect. There are better goalies than him this season and I'm sure they've played bad games too.

You're talking like Price should be 16-0 this season.


Habs fans got to be one of the whiniest fanbase in the league. Price has 11 wins leading the league and some still whine why he doesn't have 15 because there was winnable games and he didn't won all of them. Geez, if he was a little bit better in those loss, he would have been perfect this season. There was stoppable shot that he didn't stop, there was winnable games that he didn't win. Why he no perfect!!!!


And let me ask you, those easy games that you said Price won because of great defense and any decent 1st goalie would have won it, how do you know that? Do they have good rebound control like Price? Because bad control means more dangerous shot on net. Do you even agree that Price is good at controlling his rebound at least? Also, how many of those goalies are as good as Price around the net to clear the zone by himself on the PK or stop and control the puck behind the net and stop the opponents's forecheck which would mean more puck possession and shots against.

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03-01-2013, 07:21 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I'm sure everyone will claim that I hate Price so I can't admit he's been good, but why can I admit he was great in 2010-11 if that's the case ? I just think Price has been solid, above average but not one of the very best, as usual.
Everywhere else in the NHL, they praise Price and basically put him in the top 5. Therrien has repeatedly said that Price is the most important element of this team and he gives them an opportunity to win every time they play as well as being the true leader on the team. That's not me saying that, it's experts and Therrien but who are they compared to your unbiased analysis.

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03-01-2013, 07:46 PM
  #97
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I prefer it when Price doesn't have to steal games for us... That means we're playing much better in front of him...

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03-01-2013, 07:51 PM
  #98
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He never had the chance. If Tretiak did cross to North America in 1983, the Canadiens still would have won a Cup in 1986. Maybe another in 1984 as well. I was legitimately afraid when I heard the Canadiens drafted Tretiak.
If Dryden had stuck around we'd have been winning cups in the 80s too.
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
When Price wins cups we can talk.

Also, didn't Dryden win a Conn Smythe ?
If Ken Dryden is the litmus test for Price (or any goalie's) sucess then prepare to be disapointed.

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03-01-2013, 07:58 PM
  #99
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Acoording to this, Price seems to be doing pretty well...

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03-01-2013, 08:09 PM
  #100
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You know he can't win them all. Of course he played some bad or weaker games nobody is denying that. He's not perfect. There are better goalies than him this season and I'm sure they've played bad games too.

You're talking like Price should be 16-0 this season.
It is not about expecting him to win them all. I did not expect him to win the TO game. We were badly outplayed and we didn't deserve it.

But he did drop games we should have won, and he didn't really steal games either, so why are people gushing over his season ? He's been alright so far. Is alright worth 6.5M? He's paid like a top 3 goalie, I don't think he's played like a top 3 so far.

Quote:
Habs fans got to be one of the whiniest fanbase in the league. Price has 11 wins leading the league and some still whine why he doesn't have 15 because there was winnable games and he didn't won all of them. Geez, if he was a little bit better in those loss, he would have been perfect this season. There was stoppable shot that he didn't stop, there was winnable games that he didn't win. Why he no perfect!!!!
I'm not whining. I just find that Price is getting ridiculously overrated and I'm stating my opinion. It's not because you disagree with it that it's whining.

Now, I expect a goalie who makes a top 3 cap hit in the NHL to not drop games he should win. Or, if not, to steal games to compensate for games he should have won. I haven't seen that so far. It's nothing critical though, just maybe 2-3 games I feel that we could have won with solid goaltending but didn't win. But while it's not critical, it's also nothing to get excited about. Maybe I am too demanding.

Quote:
And let me ask you, those easy games that you said Price won because of great defense and any decent 1st goalie would have won it, how do you know that? Do they have good rebound control like Price? Because bad control means more dangerous shot on net. Do you even agree that Price is good at controlling his rebound at least? Also, how many of those goalies are as good as Price around the net to clear the zone by himself on the PK or stop and control the puck behind the net and stop the opponents's forecheck which would mean more puck possession and shots against.
There are a lot of games where Price is getting easy shots. Getting easy shots means it's easier to control your rebounds. Even Budaj was looking like an all star when Price got the flu and he's a pretty crappy smallish backup. But yeah, Price is good at controlling his rebounds and at handling the puck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Everywhere else in the NHL, they praise Price and basically put him in the top 5. Therrien has repeatedly said that Price is the most important element of this team and he gives them an opportunity to win every time they play as well as being the true leader on the team. That's not me saying that, it's experts and Therrien but who are they compared to your unbiased analysis.
People look at the stats and praise whoever is at the top regardless of reality. It's the same reason that big mistakes get made all the time. Example : the Bryzgalov deal. A goalie who was hidden behind the great phoenix team defense.

The 2010-11 Price is worth 6.5M.

All the others years ? Not in my book. Again maybe I'm too demanding.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If Ken Dryden is the litmus test for Price (or any goalie's) sucess then prepare to be disapointed.
I didn't bring up Dryden, you did.

I think there's no comparison with any of the great goalies we have had. I personally don't even think of them when I think of Price. But it's clear you, and others, do. So that's why we're discussing it I guess. That's clear proof that Price is overrated when guys like Roy and Dryden are brought into the discussion. Or when Price gets compared to guys who have actually accomplished things.

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