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Two trades to get the team on track...

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Old
12-20-2003, 07:49 AM
  #1
Jim
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Two trades to get the team on track...

1.) Boston and Phoenix

Phoenix isn't doing too well this season, and I the main problem is defense. They've got a pretty young squad, and you will notice they have let in the second most goals in the West.

Boston:
Doan
Mara

Phoenix:
Murray
Gill
defense prospect
2nd(compensate for Murray's UFA status)

2.) Boston and Nashville

Boston:
Legwand

Nashville:
Samsonov
LA's 2nd(if this is too much, how about a prospect)

New lines:

Doan-Thornton-Knuble
Rolston-Legwand-Lapointe
Axe-Bergeron-Grosek

McGillis, Jillson, Boynton, Mara, O'donnell, Moran

DOAN provides leadership, grit, goal scoring, and might provoke more creativity than Murray on Joe's wing. LEGWAND would fit well as our second line center and has the straight-away speed (unlike Samsonov who's style is moving side to side) to keep up with Rolston while Lapointe provides the grit and chips in some goals. MARA provides the break out pass and is still large enough to stand tough in front of our net.

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Old
12-20-2003, 08:31 AM
  #2
Michael Karlstrom II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
1.) Boston and Phoenix

Phoenix isn't doing too well this season, and I the main problem is defense. They've got a pretty young squad, and you will notice they have let in the second most goals in the West.

Boston:
Doan
Mara

Phoenix:
Murray
Gill
defense prospect
2nd(compensate for Murray's UFA status)

2.) Boston and Nashville

Boston:
Legwand

Nashville:
Samsonov
LA's 2nd(if this is too much, how about a prospect)

New lines:

Doan-Thornton-Knuble
Rolston-Legwand-Lapointe
Axe-Bergeron-Grosek

McGillis, Jillson, Boynton, Mara, O'donnell, Moran

DOAN provides leadership, grit, goal scoring, and might provoke more creativity than Murray on Joe's wing. LEGWAND would fit well as our second line center and has the straight-away speed (unlike Samsonov who's style is moving side to side) to keep up with Rolston while Lapointe provides the grit and chips in some goals. MARA provides the break out pass and is still large enough to stand tough in front of our net.

I love fantasy trades myself and I have to start this saying I'd like the Phoenix trade as much as I think Murray is a stud... that said though I don't think the deal has any chance of happening for Phoenix. Murray being an impending UFA really weakens his trade value. A contender might pony up the typical UFA rental offer of a first, a decent second liner type, and a couple other things but a team like Phoenix who are rebuilding and seem to have cash flow problems [maybe even with the new arena?] really wouldn't like the idea of giving up an affordable stud like Doan for a costy one like Glen. If we break it down as power forward for power forward and defenseman for defenseman the deal becomes even worst for Phoenix.

I like Gill as a PK guy and someone we can assign to shadow and battle giants like Jagr, Lemieux, Lindros, etc but he is at best a number 4 guy and more likely a 5 or 6 on a good team. When on a bad team and asked to overplay himself he breaks down and is rather horrible at times.

Mara is already looking to be a good number 3 and as he learns the game and gets more confidence in his offensive game I think he can be a number 1. The draft pick and prospect wouldn't be enough to tilt this deal for Phoenix in my opinion.

As for the second deal... I guess you like Legwand more than I do. Perhaps more than Nashville does too. Even having been hurt last season, Sammy's acomplishments should see him with more trade value than Legwand has. I personally wouldn't trade Sammy even up for Legwand but I guess an argument could be made that it might be a fair trade. I certainly wouldn't think we would need to give up anything else in the exchange though.

If Doan and Mara could be had for Murray and Gill or even Murray, Gill, and Rolston I think I would do the deal. They are good young affordable players who can help a team win. So much about trading this year more than any other is the status of the contracts. I guess I expect the age of UFA to go down in this next CBA so maybe Doan becomes an UFA too and if so then I guess his trade value is less than Murray's but even that said Phoenix has no chance to win this year and last I heard was still shedding salary so I just don't see this deal working for them.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 08:34 AM
  #3
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
1.) Boston and Phoenix

Phoenix isn't doing too well this season, and I the main problem is defense. They've got a pretty young squad, and you will notice they have let in the second most goals in the West.

Boston:
Doan
Mara

Phoenix:
Murray
Gill
defense prospect
2nd(compensate for Murray's UFA status)

2.) Boston and Nashville

Boston:
Legwand

Nashville:
Samsonov
LA's 2nd(if this is too much, how about a prospect)

New lines:

Doan-Thornton-Knuble
Rolston-Legwand-Lapointe
Axe-Bergeron-Grosek

McGillis, Jillson, Boynton, Mara, O'donnell, Moran

DOAN provides leadership, grit, goal scoring, and might provoke more creativity than Murray on Joe's wing. LEGWAND would fit well as our second line center and has the straight-away speed (unlike Samsonov who's style is moving side to side) to keep up with Rolston while Lapointe provides the grit and chips in some goals. MARA provides the break out pass and is still large enough to stand tough in front of our net.
1st deal, never going to happen. Doan is the heart and soul of Pheonix, and Mara has really came along and is now their #1 dman. The age differance makes that idea very unappealing for the dogs.

2nd idea, Boston gives up alot of value, not sure you want to do it. Legwand is also pretty much the only decent center on Nashville, so it is hard for them to deal him without getting a center back.

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Old
12-20-2003, 08:48 AM
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Samsonov and Rolston for O'Neill and Brind'Amour

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Old
12-20-2003, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
Samsonov and Rolston for O'Neill and Brind'Amour
I'd look at that...sounds good. One tends to forget...at least I do, that Brind'Amour is not that old. At 33, he still has some years left. Both players provide grit and offense. Brind'Amour is a sure bet to win the majority of his faceoffs.

The only down fall is that we do get older here.

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12-20-2003, 08:58 AM
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Here is one...

Boston:
Jokinen

Florida:
Samsonov
2nd

I guess in the majority of my trades I am looking for a trickle down effect at center. Getting Jokinen allows Bergeron to move down to 3rd line and Rolston to switch back to LW.

I'd rather trade Murray, but me thinks Florida wouldn't bite because of the UFA status and his age.

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12-20-2003, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
Here is one...

Boston:
Jokinen

Florida:
Samsonov
2nd

I guess in the majority of my trades I am looking for a trickle down effect at center. Getting Jokinen allows Bergeron to move down to 3rd line and Rolston to switch back to LW.

I'd rather trade Murray, but me thinks Florida wouldn't bite because of the UFA status and his age.

I too would rather Murray go, but I'd do this deal also...I've always preferred strength up the middle to wings.....

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Old
12-20-2003, 09:47 AM
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Michael Karlstrom II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
Here is one...

Boston:
Jokinen

Florida:
Samsonov
2nd

I guess in the majority of my trades I am looking for a trickle down effect at center. Getting Jokinen allows Bergeron to move down to 3rd line and Rolston to switch back to LW.

I'd rather trade Murray, but me thinks Florida wouldn't bite because of the UFA status and his age.

Samsonov for Jokkinen would be interesting... I don't think i would throw in the draft pick. Of course we need to wait for Sammy to get healthy. Personally I see Florida as too soft and if I was them I wouldn't be dealing Jokkinen for a small point producer. That said, I really don't think Dudly is all that good of a GM and I have no idea if he would like the move more than I do.

I would think with Jokkinen having his breakout season last year and being a bit more gritty than Sammy and Sammy having been injured recently perhaps their trade values would be roughly equal. Their age and contracts should be roughly equal for the next few seasons.

I think given the makeup of our team I might well prefer Jokkinen to build a second line around.

Anyhow... as for the BrindAmour/O'Neill deal we have to remember that BrindAmour did get a 6 year and 30 million dollar type contract. I like him alot and if we could be more sure about the CBA I wouldnt mind him being with the club but given that we dont know what type of cap we need to deal with having so much money tied up for so long might be a real handicap if the guy is a second liner.

Peca makes less and is roughly the same type of player better defensively not so good offensively. If Peca is available for a contract dump or even a couple of decent prospects I would look to the Island first.

Mike Ricci is coming up on UFA and would be another guy I think I would look at before BrindAmour.

Jeff O'Neil is interesting... I wouldn't move Sammy for him though and Murray/Rolston being UFA tends to lesson their trade value. If Carolina gets forced into firesaling O'Neil and does agree to take prospects back for him I'd give up any two that aren't on the current team and probably throw in a draft pick for O'Neil.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 10:30 AM
  #9
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Here's my take. 2 deals.

From Buffalo:
Satan + McKee

From Boston:
Rolston + Gill

We get a 26 year old solid defenseman and a 29 year old goal scorer.

From NYI:
Hamrlik + Scatchard

From Boston:
Axelsson + Jillson + M Samuelsonn + picks

We get a 29 year old mobile defenseman and a 27 year old hard working center.

The upshot of all these trades is to give us a better 2nd line: Samsonov + Bergeron + Satan. Our defense is better. I hate giving up Jillson, but the package to NYI actually looks weak to me. The more realistic package would be that we're giving up something like Samsonov + Samuelsson + Morisson or something like that.

The point is to get talent + grit. These 2 trades should shake up the teams personality quite a bit.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 10:38 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
Here's my take. 2 deals.

From Buffalo:
Satan + McKee

From Boston:
Rolston + Gill

We get a 26 year old solid defenseman and a 29 year old goal scorer.

From NYI:
Hamrlik + Scatchard

From Boston:
Axelsson + Jillson + M Samuelsonn + picks

We get a 29 year old mobile defenseman and a 27 year old hard working center.

The upshot of all these trades is to give us a better 2nd line: Samsonov + Bergeron + Satan. Our defense is better. I hate giving up Jillson, but the package to NYI actually looks weak to me. The more realistic package would be that we're giving up something like Samsonov + Samuelsson + Morisson or something like that.

The point is to get talent + grit. These 2 trades should shake up the teams personality quite a bit.
trading axelsson = bad idea. notice rolston played very well today? it's not a coincidence. also, jillson is really struggling right now. every time he's on the ice, it seems like he's nervous.

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Old
12-20-2003, 10:45 AM
  #11
Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
Here's my take. 2 deals.

From Buffalo:
Satan + McKee

From Boston:
Rolston + Gill

We get a 26 year old solid defenseman and a 29 year old goal scorer.

From NYI:
Hamrlik + Scatchard

From Boston:
Axelsson + Jillson + M Samuelsonn + picks

We get a 29 year old mobile defenseman and a 27 year old hard working center.

The upshot of all these trades is to give us a better 2nd line: Samsonov + Bergeron + Satan. Our defense is better. I hate giving up Jillson, but the package to NYI actually looks weak to me. The more realistic package would be that we're giving up something like Samsonov + Samuelsson + Morisson or something like that.

The point is to get talent + grit. These 2 trades should shake up the teams personality quite a bit.
Gill for McKee I would consider as long as you understand that McKee, like Gill, is ideally a #4....maybe #3. That said, he adds grit in front of the net. A couple of years ago, he looked really good.

Rolston for Satan is questionable. Satan just signed a good sized contract, and for that money, I don't want him. He is completely one dimensional...not that this is a horrible thing. I just don't see him as a Bruins type player. Also, a combo of Samsonov, Bergeron, and Satan would be pretty soft. Bergeron plays hard, but he can't carry the grit for a whole line.

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Old
12-20-2003, 10:50 AM
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I agree about Axe. I like him a lot.

But... you're the GM. The team is struggling and has been doing so for quite a long time - not just this year. The owner has you in his crosshairs. You have to make an impact deal or at least it seems like that is what it takes at this point.

What do you do? Yes, if you watch Rolston or Axe individually, they are good players. But the team is struggling - what do you do? I have not seen any trade suggestions where a lot of people did not step up to object to the players leaving Boston, unless those are guys like Hilbert, Gill, or others who are not big favorites. We all know those assets will not bring us much. So what do you do?? I mean, the Bruins once traded Esposito and Vadnais for Park and Ratelle and that was not a popular deal - but it made them a better team.

Also agree about Jillson. I'm not sure about him. He did not really catch on in San Jose and he has not impressed me a lot here. He looks promising, but I don't see a lot of progress over time, especialy for a guy who had 74 NHL games under his belt before he got here. He's 23 now. As Kirk said, people were worrying about Boynton being slow to develop (I was disappointed he did not hit Boston sooner) and he eventually got there (despite his problems this year). Maybe it is that way with Jillson, but I wonder more about him. He looks like the classic "okay at many things but not excellent at any of them" kind of guy. Nick's obvious desire to win tips the scales for me, I don't see that same fire in Jillson.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 10:52 AM
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Jim, also agree that this one trade is not the only moves you can make. I think McKee is better than Gill. Not great and yes a #3/4. But he'd be a more solid stay-at-home guy who can move better. Satan is not having a good year but he's a proven scorer. I would move Rolston for him because Rolston is older and the team is not winning with him and it seems like Rolston cannot make it off the 3rd line. Therefore, get a good 2nd line winger and figure out the #3 center role secondly.

This is a risky move but isn't it time to try something?

 
Old
12-20-2003, 10:59 AM
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Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
Jim, also agree that this one trade is not the only moves you can make. I think McKee is better than Gill. Not great and yes a #3/4. But he'd be a more solid stay-at-home guy who can move better. Satan is not having a good year but he's a proven scorer. I would move Rolston for him because Rolston is older and the team is not winning with him and it seems like Rolston cannot make it off the 3rd line. Therefore, get a good 2nd line winger and figure out the #3 center role secondly.

This is a risky move but isn't it time to try something?
Oh, it is definately time to try something.... You know, I was just thinking that it might be a better combo to have Satan on the first line with Knuble and Joe while Samsonov-Bergeron-Murray makes the second line.

The third line looks like:
Ax-??-Lapointe

We have to plug that up, but your second trade would do the trick, and I would make that trade as well. Jillson...I don't know. It is hard for me to believe that guy is 23. He has this look about him that makes me think he is a 18 year old kid just breaking into the league...it is like a bewilderment in his eyes. He definately is cool and collected like Barrett Jackman...but then again, who is.

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Old
12-20-2003, 11:04 AM
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I'm guessing that it will be really hard to guess what the big trade(s) might be, if they happen at all. The league financial attitudes and jockeying this year are much more complicated and we have not seen a lot of big trades to give us a read on how teams will approach deals.

It is most likely that the Bruins will hook up with another desparate team. I would guess Dallas, also struggling against expectations. What the deal would be and how it would make sense, who knows. I could see the B's picking up a few big names from the Stars and us not necessarily liking the package leaving Boston.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
I'm guessing that it will be really hard to guess what the big trade(s) might be, if they happen at all. The league financial attitudes and jockeying this year are much more complicated and we have not seen a lot of big trades to give us a read on how teams will approach deals.

It is most likely that the Bruins will hook up with another desparate team. I would guess Dallas, also struggling against expectations. What the deal would be and how it would make sense, who knows. I could see the B's picking up a few big names from the Stars and us not necessarily liking the package leaving Boston.
Let me ask you this...would you take a package based around Modano if we had to give a package based around Samsonov?

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Old
12-20-2003, 11:14 AM
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Probably not. Only because of age. Modano is 33.5 years old.

Aside from age, yes I would do that. Modano is a great player and has proved more than Sammy has. This deal would help us this year, and maybe 1 or 2 more after, but then he probably tails off and becomes Joe Nieuwendyk.

But, if I'm O'Connell, I guess my answer would be different. Modano probably would help this team a lot this year, more than Sammy. If the owner is saying DO BETTER OR ELSE, this deal accomplishes that. Maybe that is the right way to think about it. But because I am just a goof on the Internet, I'd be looking for a younger player than 33, preferably somebody no older than 27/28.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 11:18 AM
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three points

A few points I would like to add:

1) There is absolutely no chance that Phoenix trades Doan, so get it out of your minds.

2) We dont need any more forwards. We have an above average nine forwards in Thornton, Sammy, Murray, Knuble, Rolston, Lapointe, Axe, Bergeron, Green.

3) Our problem lies on our blueline. Did you see the passes being made out of our zone? Atrocious. And to make a trade for a d-man of average quality is another big mistake. This team doesnt need a d-man like we have on our roster. If we are going for a d-men, the Bruins need to go semi-big or do absolutely nothing. Today I spoke to Kirk on the radio show and he quickly dismissed the idea of the Bruins landing a big name d-man such as Gonchar or Zubov. I have to disagree with him. Jacobs has gone public about the Bruins needing change. If he was satisfied with his product, he would keep his mouth shut. He knows to get something good, you need to drop some coin. I feel that if JJ has the balls to drop another three million in this team, we can instantly become a contender in the EAST. Trade one of our several #4 d-man to a team looking to dump salary (Washington, Dallas, or NYI). Possible names include:
-Zubov (5 million, 33 years old - maybe too old and expensive)
-Roman Hamrlik (3.5 million, 29 years old)
-Adrian Aucoin (3.2 million, 30 years old)
-Sergei Gonchar (3.45 million, 29 years old), just to name a few).

These teams arent looking for star quality in return. They want to rid themselves the burden of these contracts. All it would take is a cheap young d-man, and picks. Why can't the B's give up a first round pick? We are pretty loaded in the young talent department, or so we think. This is why I respect guys like Bobby Clarke. Look at the talent he has obtained by trading away high picks, and his team is still filled with youth. How do they manage this?

I am done.

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Old
12-20-2003, 11:21 AM
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I would agree that defense is the priority, but I disagree that the forwards are fine.

The lines don't work and we're not scoring goals. They can't pass and that is not just the fault of the defensemen. The team attitude is very flat and slow paced. I would absolutely look to change the team's attitude up front as well.

Sadly, the problems seem to be myriad and one player/trade might help, but not make more than a marginal difference. Nice passes from Gonchar will not make this team win games they are losing right now.

 
Old
12-20-2003, 11:28 AM
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Beauty

The beautiful thing about obtaining a real good D man is that it gets frauds like McInnis, i mean McGillis or Gill out of the line up.

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12-20-2003, 11:29 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
I would agree that defense is the priority, but I disagree that the forwards are fine.

The lines don't work and we're not scoring goals. They can't pass and that is not just the fault of the defensemen. The team attitude is very flat and slow paced. I would absolutely look to change the team's attitude up front as well.

Sadly, the problems seem to be myriad and one player/trade might help, but not make more than a marginal difference. Nice passes from Gonchar will not make this team win games they are losing right now.
Sorry...but a guy like Gonchar would make a world of difference. Its not only his "nice" passes that would help. Its the fact that HE would be the guy on the point on the power play with 4:20 to go in the game instead of DONATO. He would be the guy hitting the net on the same power play instead of shots being missed. He would be the guy playing 27 minutes per game NOT MORAN, He would be the guy making the smooth transition of the puck to our forwards. Get my point.

Now i am really done.

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12-20-2003, 11:47 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Karlstrom II
I love fantasy trades myself ...
Me too, but I have to troll for a sec. Some of these fantasy proposals involves B's getting 2nd line centers without sending a center back in return. Looking at NHL rosters this season makes me think that trading centers will not be an easy thing unless you give up something substantial. There isn't a team out there who looks like they can afford giving up a center without getting one in return, except maybe Philly.

If you want to talk about fantasy, giving up O'Neill/Brindamour without getting at least a second line center (in the package) in return won't cut it. Course, it's all in good fantasy

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12-20-2003, 12:43 PM
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1. Sign Rolston and Murray to 2 year deals-UFA's have very little leverage...get the guys signed that he wants gone first and foremost
2. Rolston/Gill/2nd rounder to Anaheim for Vitali Vishnevski/Rob Neidermayer
3. Murray/Boynton to Colorado for Adam Foote/Alex Tanguay
4. McCarthy to Phoenix for Tyson Nash
Healthy:
Thornton-Tanguay-Knuble
Neidermayer-Lapointe-Samsonov
Bergeron-Axelsson-Nash
Here's the big difference...
FOOTE(30 minutes of mean spirited hard hitting in your face hockey everynight)-ODONNELL-VISHNEVSKI-MCGILLIS-JILLSON-MORAN

Thoughts?

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