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Old
07-19-2006, 11:04 PM
  #51
Le depisteur
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Gagne playing with healthy Forsberg at the beginning of the season [held pointless 4 out of 21 games]: 1.62 PPG

Gagne playing without Forsberg in the lineup [held pointless 11 out of 21 games]: 0.63 PPG



What Gagne will we be paying out the bum for?
I wouldn't not give a lot more than Ryder... No doubt Ryder would be in the deal, but not a top prospect with. We should also add an other player to remain under the cap, but i cannot say which name...

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07-19-2006, 11:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
I think this hate/love this/that team argument is really overplayed around here. Those guys are professional athletes. Most don't give a rat's arse what team they rooted for when they were kids save for when they get nostalgic in the end of their careers and want to finish it with the childhood organization. Who cares what team Gagne is/was a fan of? Do you really think that'd save him from playing here? That he'd refuse a trade? That's he'd get the hell out of here whenever he can because he looked looking at the Fleur de Lys jersey when he was a kid? That's at best far-fetched. I'm sure the team they cheered for as a kid is at the bottom of any of these guys' priority list when choosing a destination, if it's there at all to begin with.
He recentely said to Journal de Québec, 2 weeks ago, he is dreaming to play with the Habs one day...

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07-19-2006, 11:13 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
He recentely said to Journal de Québec, 2 weeks ago, he is dreaming to play with the Habs one day...
Well if you're talking about Gagne, I guess this would drive the point home that the team he was a fan of as a kid has no bearing in his decision, like most players I would suspect. I think the fact he's a French speaking Quebecer who could have the possibility to play in front of friends and family is a more realistic argument.

Of course, let's not rule out the fact that those guys might say one thing to look good to the press and public and think the opposite. I'll believe he wants to truly play here only once he signs long term with this organization, him or any other for that matter. Call me cynical.

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Old
07-19-2006, 11:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
Well if you're talking about Gagne, I guess this would drive the point home that the team he was a fan of as a kid has no bearing in his decision, like most I would suspect. I think the fact he's a French speaking Quebecer who could have the possibility to play in front of friends and family is a more realistic argument.

Of course, let's not rule out the fact that those guys might say one think to look good to the press and public and think the opposite. I'll believe any player he wants to truly play here only once he signs long term with this organization. Call me cynical.
Yeah, i agree with you... But i rather referred to the Nordiques story...

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07-19-2006, 11:16 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
He recentely said to Journal de Québec, 2 weeks ago, he is dreaming to play with the Habs one day...
we should wait till hes UFA then!

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07-19-2006, 11:18 PM
  #56
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we should wait till hes UFA then!
next year if he sign for one year then

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Old
07-19-2006, 11:37 PM
  #57
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No thanks. The small upgrade from Ryder to Gagne is not worth the massive overpayment we'd have to give up. He's good but not worth trading for. I'd sign him as a FA for sure though.

Him and Lecavalier are super overrated in Montreal.

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07-19-2006, 11:44 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
No thanks. The small upgrade from Ryder to Gagne is not worth the massive overpayment we'd have to give up. He's good but not worth trading for. I'd sign him as a FA for sure though.

Him and Lecavalier are super overrated in Montreal.
Also called "the Pedneault effect".

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07-19-2006, 11:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
He recentely said to Journal de Québec, 2 weeks ago, he is dreaming to play with the Habs one day...
Uhh.. I read that he wants to stay in Philly and hopes that the trade rumors to Montreal arent true.

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07-20-2006, 12:14 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
He recentely said to Journal de Québec, 2 weeks ago, he is dreaming to play with the Habs one day...

Former Flyer Marc Bureau stirred up the rumor mill in Montreal this week, suggesting on television that the Canadiens should tender a long-term offer to Gagne that would force the Flyers to match it. Gagne said he heard a similar rumor about a month ago and dismissed it. "Every summer I hear I'm going to Montreal," Gagne said. "If it were true, I would hope the Flyers matched the offer. But I don't think it's true." Montreal GM Bob Gainey and Clarke are close friends, so such a move would be unlikely. Also, offer sheets to restricted free agents are considered taboo among general managers these days.


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14982637.htm

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Old
07-20-2006, 12:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
No thanks. The small upgrade from Ryder to Gagne is not worth the massive overpayment we'd have to give up. He's good but not worth trading for. I'd sign him as a FA for sure though.

Him and Lecavalier are super overrated in Montreal.
They`re overrated but they`re good-to-great players and they`re Quebecers. That`s already a lot. Just on the ground that we haven`t had guys on this level at this age for quite a while(Kovy is old and can be lazy and Koivu was great for the first few years until the injuries slowed him down).

Also going from Ryder to Gagne is not a small upgrade if you consider the difference in points and the fact that Gagne will be inspired playing in front of his people. I think that`s a great confidence booster. I`ve seen many guys that played better that they should have because they played in this environment(aka Theo).

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07-20-2006, 01:02 AM
  #62
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Gagne is going NOWHERE...

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Old
07-20-2006, 03:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Nielson81 View Post
Like I said, I doubt it will happen, just passing it along.

Personally I think the Habs would have to give up a lot to land Gagne
Hey man, just passing you on a thanks. I mean unlike most people I don't need a DNA test to see if a RUMOUR is true. It would be ****ing sweet to get Gagne, and well when you read this **** you get happy thinkin it might happen, for a bit, and only a bit.

thumbs up

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Old
07-20-2006, 04:38 AM
  #64
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Just to pass this on to you guys.

Since Gainey doesnt want to give up 4 first rounders the rumor is this: Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek, and a #1 pick for Gagne.

Dont forget if Gainey makes an offer for Gagne, he signs and Clarke doesnt match. You guys have to give us 4 first rounders.

I highly doubt Gagne is going anywhere though.

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07-20-2006, 05:19 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
Just to pass this on to you guys.

Since Gainey doesnt want to give up 4 first rounders the rumor is this: Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek, and a #1 pick for Gagne.

Dont forget if Gainey makes an offer for Gagne, he signs and Clarke doesnt match. You guys have to give us 4 first rounders.

I highly doubt Gagne is going anywhere though.
Major overpayment if it is true and it actually makes our team weaker...I can't see how Philly and the habs are a good trading partner at all really.

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Old
07-20-2006, 06:01 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Gagne playing with healthy Forsberg at the beginning of the season [held pointless 4 out of 21 games]: 1.62 PPG

Gagne playing without Forsberg in the lineup [held pointless 11 out of 21 games]: 0.63 PPG

What Gagne will we be paying out the bum for?
Gagne 03-04: 80 games 24+21
Gagne 05-06: 72 games 47+32

I think playing with Foppan shows right here.

Dont get me wrong I like Gagne, I have no doubt he couldnt put over 60 points with Habs - but then so could Ryder.

Somehow I dont see Flyers dealing him away - they have almost complete team after signing Sanderson (for propably something like 1.5M/year) and their payroll should be around 39M - just enough to squeeze Gagne in somehow.


Last edited by Marksman: 07-20-2006 at 06:11 AM.
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Old
07-20-2006, 06:14 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Marksman2 View Post
Gagne 03-04: 80 games 24+21
Gagne 05-06: 72 games 47+32

I think playing with Foppan shows right here.

Dont get me wrong I like Gagne, I have no doubt he couldnt put over 60 points with Habs - but then so could Ryder.
In 03-04 Gagne played injured, he was mis-diagnosed.

It would be like giving up 4 first rounders.

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07-20-2006, 06:15 AM
  #68
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Its only a rumor, doubt it will ever happen.

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Old
07-20-2006, 06:28 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
In 03-04 Gagne played injured, he was mis-diagnosed.

It would be like giving up 4 first rounders.
I thought Gagne was sick in 02/03? Still ... wouldnt you admit part of his success last year was because of Forsberg?

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07-20-2006, 06:35 AM
  #70
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I thought Gagne was sick in 02/03? Still ... wouldnt you admit part of his success last year was because of Forsberg?
in 02-03 he was, in 03-04 his injury was not diagnosed properly.
05-06 Forsberg was the reason he score 47 goals,
But Gagne's game is just not scoring goals.
He's an above average two-way player. His defensive game is excellent. Thats why he is coveted my many teams.

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07-20-2006, 07:18 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
Just to pass this on to you guys.

Since Gainey doesnt want to give up 4 first rounders the rumor is this: Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek, and a #1 pick for Gagne.
.
That`s way too much. And why focus on the young guys? That`s not like the Flyers have tons of seasoned veterans. I don`t want Kostsitsyn and Komisarek to go anywhere.

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07-20-2006, 07:20 AM
  #72
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That`s way too much. And why focus on the young guys? That`s not like the Flyers have tons of seasoned veterans. I don`t want Kostsitsyn and Komisarek to go anywhere.
thats what was supposedly rumored.
dont worry dude, its not gonna happen
i'll be very surprised if it did

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Old
07-20-2006, 08:27 AM
  #73
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They`re overrated but they`re good-to-great players and they`re Quebecers. That`s already a lot. Just on the ground that we haven`t had guys on this level at this age for quite a while(Kovy is old and can be lazy and Koivu was great for the first few years until the injuries slowed him down).

Also going from Ryder to Gagne is not a small upgrade if you consider the difference in points and the fact that Gagne will be inspired playing in front of his people. I think that`s a great confidence booster. I`ve seen many guys that played better that they should have because they played in this environment(aka Theo).
They are good-to-great players yes, but we have guys in the system that will be good-to-great-to-elite players. The fact that they're Quebecers shouldn't matter, and I would hope that it doesn't. You don't see me saying we should sign more anglophone Quebec guys. All I care is that they are good.

The fact is that Lecavalier is vastly overrated. He makes close to the max salary and will for a long time. His best season, playing with superstars, net him 78 pts. He's inconsistent too. He puts up a 70 pt season, and then 50 pts, then 70 pts again, then 40, then 75, etc. Is this really worth the massive salary cap handicap he would give us? Do you think Tampa is happy with the money he's making?

Gagne...I like Gagne, but he isn't worth trading for. We already have a guy who has the potential to be as good, at least, as Gagne ---> Higgins. Yes Gags scored 47 goals, but look at his centre. We have nobody who is capable of getting Gagne 47 goals. He would put up numbers comparable to Ryder in Montreal. And Ryder would easily pot 45 playing with Foppa. Ryder will also make half the money Gagne will make. Yes Gagne is a great two-way player but so is Higgins.

We could trade our core for all the superstars in the league, but is it a good idea? Of course not. And in the end, the upgrade from Ryder to Gagne in terms of points is not very big. Before Gagne had Foppa on his line, he was putting up Ryder numbers. He won't put up more points here than Ryder did.

Anyways, Gagne is a flyer and will always be one. The kid loves playing in Philly. He has the "PH" tattooed on his heart (I find it hilarious when people say 'he has the CH tattooed on his heart' so I'm turning it around).

Ryder + 1st round pick is already overpaying for Gagne. If he "dreams to be a Hab" and we want him so bad, we can wait until he's a free agent.

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Old
07-20-2006, 08:49 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
Just to pass this on to you guys.

Since Gainey doesnt want to give up 4 first rounders the rumor is this: Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek, and a #1 pick for Gagne.

Dont forget if Gainey makes an offer for Gagne, he signs and Clarke doesnt match. You guys have to give us 4 first rounders.

I highly doubt Gagne is going anywhere though.
Ryder, Komi, Kosty, 1st pick >>>>> 4 1st rounders.

Anyways, Gainey refused to give up komisarek in a deal for Lecavalier two yers ago. I would think he would refuse even less for Gagne.

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Old
07-20-2006, 08:56 AM
  #75
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They are good-to-great players yes, but we have guys in the system that will be good-to-great-to-elite players. The fact that they're Quebecers shouldn't matter, and I would hope that it doesn't. You don't see me saying we should sign more anglophone Quebec guys. All I care is that they are good.

The fact is that Lecavalier is vastly overrated. He makes close to the max salary and will for a long time. His best season, playing with superstars, net him 78 pts. He's inconsistent too. He puts up a 70 pt season, and then 50 pts, then 70 pts again, then 40, then 75, etc. Is this really worth the massive salary cap handicap he would give us? Do you think Tampa is happy with the money he's making?

Gagne...I like Gagne, but he isn't worth trading for. We already have a guy who has the potential to be as good, at least, as Gagne ---> Higgins. Yes Gags scored 47 goals, but look at his centre. We have nobody who is capable of getting Gagne 47 goals. He would put up numbers comparable to Ryder in Montreal. And Ryder would easily pot 45 playing with Foppa. Ryder will also make half the money Gagne will make. Yes Gagne is a great two-way player but so is Higgins.

We could trade our core for all the superstars in the league, but is it a good idea? Of course not. And in the end, the upgrade from Ryder to Gagne in terms of points is not very big. Before Gagne had Foppa on his line, he was putting up Ryder numbers. He won't put up more points here than Ryder did.

Anyways, Gagne is a flyer and will always be one. The kid loves playing in Philly. He has the "PH" tattooed on his heart (I find it hilarious when people say 'he has the CH tattooed on his heart' so I'm turning it around).

Ryder + 1st round pick is already overpaying for Gagne. If he "dreams to be a Hab" and we want him so bad, we can wait until he's a free agent.
I agreed with your post up until this. Ryder and a first for gagne is definitly not overpaying. The first round pick would be in the 15-20 range and well ryder to me has very limited abilities. Gagne is a superstar and all is a HUGE upgrade over ryder. Sure gagne wont produce as much as he would with forsberg but he will score just as much or more in mtl. The big difference between them is their defensive play and skating abilities. Ryder is horrible in his own end and a terrible skater. I know we will never get gagne for ryder+1st round pick but to say that if we did it would be over paying is just crazy.

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