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Fire Feaster?

View Poll Results: Should Jay Feaster Be Fired?
Yes 288 81.36%
No 66 18.64%
Voters: 354. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-01-2013, 05:53 PM
  #51
Bodangles
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Yes, of course your ownership should fire him. But the question really is who you hire in his place.

If your ownership will give him the reigns, I suggest Brian Burke.

I don't care what people say about Burke because there's a lot of bull-- out there about him (especially in Western Canada -- sorry). His only flaw is that he's a loudmouth, but he is the shrewd GM that your team will need for a true rebuild.

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03-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #52
Calculon
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The problem with Burke is that he's not much of a rebuild-er. It's not that he doesn't have a good eye for talent - he's actually a pretty good drafter - it's more so that he's impatient and can underestimate the time it takes to be properly competitive. If he did come here, he would likely push a very short rebuild, a one or two year type of thing, which may not be enough.

On the other hand, he would have no compunction with trading guys like Iginla or Giordano, nor - and this is easily his best attribute - would he intentionally make moves that set the franchise back longterm, even if it meant losing his job. I really don't think I can say the same for Feaster - he's shown both here and in Tampa Bay that he doesn't much of an issue with being a 'yes man' to a meddling ownership.

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03-01-2013, 05:59 PM
  #53
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Biggest mistake was not hiring John Davidson as the president. Ken King needed to be fired years ago. Make no mistake Feaster is just the puppet here. KK makes all of the decisions.

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03-01-2013, 06:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 7venbarschi View Post
Biggest mistake was not hiring John Davidson as the president. Ken King needed to be fired years ago. Make no mistake Feaster is just the puppet here. KK makes all of the decisions.
I agree.

This is starting to look like a Mike Holmes episode. I can imagine him walking into the Flames' front office growling "It's all gotta go!" or "I've decided to gut it!"

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
The problem with Burke is that he's not much of a rebuild-er. It's not that he doesn't have a good eye for talent - he's actually a pretty good drafter - it's more so that he's impatient and can underestimate the time it takes to be properly competitive. If he did come here, he would likely push a very short rebuild, a one or two year type of thing, which may not be enough.

On the other hand, he would have no compunction with trading guys like Iginla or Giordano, nor - and this is easily his best attribute - would he intentionally make moves that set the franchise back longterm, even if it meant losing his job. I really don't think I can say the same for Feaster - he's shown both here and in Tampa Bay that he doesn't much of an issue with being a 'yes man' to a meddling ownership.
But your team is in a different position than the Leafs were when Burke arrived in Toronto. His major mistake was initially overestimating the talent on the Leafs and thought there was enough there to couch Kessel in, who has a very specific skill set and isn't a DIYer -- he's a finisher who needs skills around him. My point is that there's no guarantee that Burke will make the same mistakes again. Burke is a lot of things, but he's not someone who makes the same mistake twice. I see him auctioning everyone off and starting fresh. You have the talent to do that. If... if... if...

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03-01-2013, 06:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 7venbarschi View Post
Biggest mistake was not hiring John Davidson as the president. Ken King needed to be fired years ago. Make no mistake Feaster is just the puppet here. KK makes all of the decisions.
I completely agree. I was pissed when Davidson joined the Blue Jackets.

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03-01-2013, 06:18 PM
  #57
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Biggest mistake was not hiring John Davidson as the president.

I completely agree. I would have loved to see Davidson come here.

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03-01-2013, 06:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
The problem with Burke is that he's not much of a rebuild-er. It's not that he doesn't have a good eye for talent - he's actually a pretty good drafter - it's more so that he's impatient and can underestimate the time it takes to be properly competitive. If he did come here, he would likely push a very short rebuild, a one or two year type of thing, which may not be enough.

On the other hand, he would have no compunction with trading guys like Iginla or Giordano, nor - and this is easily his best attribute - would he intentionally make moves that set the franchise back longterm, even if it meant losing his job. I really don't think I can say the same for Feaster - he's shown both here and in Tampa Bay that he doesn't much of an issue with being a 'yes man' to a meddling ownership.
Look at the pieces we have now versus when Burke got in TO, we have Cammy,Gio,Jbo,Kipper,Iggy,Tanguay etc all have as much or more value then any player on Toronto when Burke got there. This is the perfect fit we have many trading chips with a guy who likes to trade and is very good at it in a draft.

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03-01-2013, 06:23 PM
  #59
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Look at the pieces we have now versus when Burke got in TO, we have Cammy,Gio,Jbo,Kipper,Iggy,Tanguay etc all have as much or more value then any player on Toronto when Burke got there. This is the perfect fit we have many trading chips with a guy who likes to trade and is very good at it in a draft.

This I agree with.

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03-01-2013, 06:33 PM
  #60
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But your team is in a different position than the Leafs were when Burke arrived in Toronto. His major mistake was initially overestimating the talent on the Leafs and thought there was enough there to couch Kessel in, who has a very specific skill set and isn't a DIYer -- he's a finisher who needs skills around him. My point is that there's no guarantee that Burke will make the same mistakes again. Burke is a lot of things, but he's not someone who makes the same mistake twice. I see him auctioning everyone off and starting fresh. You have the talent to do that. If... if... if...
True, but I guess it would depend entirely on the level of freedom he has to make the moves he feels are best, without ownership interference.

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Look at the pieces we have now versus when Burke got in TO, we have Cammy,Gio,Jbo,Kipper,Iggy,Tanguay etc all have as much or more value then any player on Toronto when Burke got there. This is the perfect fit we have many trading chips with a guy who likes to trade and is very good at it in a draft.
That's true too. Burke did manage to get a lot out of his players when trading them. Kaberle for Colbourne, a 1st and a conditional 2nd comes to mind.

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03-01-2013, 06:40 PM
  #61
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True, but I guess it would depend entirely on the level of freedom he has to make the moves he feels are best, without ownership interference.


That's true too. Burke did manage to get a lot out of his players when trading them. Kaberle for Colbourne, a 1st and a conditional 2nd comes to mind.
Beauchemin is the best example he got offrey Lupul + Jake Gardiner this is a man that could change the future of the Flames around in only a matter of a couple of years.

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03-01-2013, 06:44 PM
  #62
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Fire him please.

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03-01-2013, 06:47 PM
  #63
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Beauchemin is the best example he got offrey Lupul + Jake Gardiner this is a man that could change the future of the Flames around in only a matter of a couple of years.
I'd take his trades with Anaheim with a grain of salt, which was why I didn't mention it earlier. Bob Murray, the current Ducks GM, was Burke's protege when Burke was in Anaheim. Their relationship after Burke left to Toronto was reminiscent of Fletcher's and Risbrough's back in the day. I don't know if he could pull the same level of sheer highway robbery on a GM that he didn't have a considerable level of influence over.

Still, Burke's a GM that knows how to utilize leverage to get the most out of his transactions, so that would be a significant upgrade on the current state of affairs.

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03-01-2013, 06:48 PM
  #64
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After mulling it over the past day, I think with this blunder he should be fired. He's had time to correct this teams problems, and it's been the same **** as under Sutter.

I'm thankful the offer was matched, as much as I was excited prior to learning this waiver BS.

Feaster should have contacted the league, especially if his interpretation is different from every other GM. He's a damn lawyer, so he should have known better.

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03-01-2013, 06:55 PM
  #65
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Burke would do wonders for the Flames. Just look at his track record in Anaheim and Vancouver. He also cleaned up the huge mess JFJ and Fletcher left in Toronto. It's a shame that they fired him in TO because they are starting to look like a solid team.

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03-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
I'd take his trades with Anaheim with a grain of salt, which was why I didn't mention it earlier. Bob Murray, the current Ducks GM, was Burke's protege when Burke was in Anaheim. Their relationship after Burke left to Toronto was reminiscent of Fletcher's and Risbrough's back in the day. I don't know if he could pull the same level of sheer highway robbery on a GM that he didn't have a considerable level of influence over.

Still, Burke's a GM that knows how to utilize leverage to get the most out of his transactions, so that would be a significant upgrade on the current state of affairs.
Dion Phaneuf?

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03-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
I'd take his trades with Anaheim with a grain of salt, which was why I didn't mention it earlier. Bob Murray, the current Ducks GM, was Burke's protege when Burke was in Anaheim. Their relationship after Burke left to Toronto was reminiscent of Fletcher's and Risbrough's back in the day. I don't know if he could pull the same level of sheer highway robbery on a GM that he didn't have a considerable level of influence over.

Still, Burke's a GM that knows how to utilize leverage to get the most out of his transactions, so that would be a significant upgrade on the current state of affairs.
What about the Phaneuf deal?

I find it hard to believe that Sutter is just an idiot, and more likely that Burke is a swindler.

It was great reading through your thoughts, Flames fans. I'll leave with saying that Burke is your man.

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03-01-2013, 07:17 PM
  #68
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As an Oiler fan I sympathize with Calgary fans. Inept management is awful and our last two GMs have dodged some bullets like Feaster has (although Feaster's mistake would've been legendary). The only good I could see Feaster doing is to be the puppet GM while the Flames rebuild. That is if Feaster can actually get something of worth back from Calgary's aging assets. Tamebellini has been a joke of a GM that most people in Edmonton want out but he was at least good for getting us a good farm system. If Feaster trades away Iggy and co for the best he can get then sit on his hands for three years then at least the Flames should have a pretty good youth movement.

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03-01-2013, 07:23 PM
  #69
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please no burke.
no interest in having draft picks wasted on hard nosed grinder type players for another 10 years.

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03-01-2013, 07:23 PM
  #70
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Yea he has to be fired after this, and Honestly other then drafting well , he hasn't done much since sutter left. I say fire him now before he does something stupid.

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03-01-2013, 07:23 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Dion Phaneuf?
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What about the Phaneuf deal?

I find it hard to believe that Sutter is just an idiot, and more likely that Burke is a swindler.

It was great reading through your thoughts, Flames fans. I'll leave with saying that Burke is your man.
Hmm, I forget about that one. But I'd still hesitate to base a whole lot of anything from that move specifically because while did Burke demonstrate terrific acumen in that transaction, at the same time all he really did was take advantage of a desperate and panicking GM in Darryl Sutter.

The circumstances around that trade can't be ignored. Darryl was feeling a lot of pressure from ownership given a) four straight first round playoff exits and a general inability to deliver on his promises b) the third system switch in his tenure wasn't working c) he had traded that years 1st round pick for a ill-fitting Jokinen and d) the team was out of the playoffs and mired in a multi-game losing streak (that would reach a total of 9 games).

It was obvious that Sutter's attempt to bring back tough-nosed defense first hockey was failing and that the team simply did not have the depth to score enough goals. The Flames had few if any prospects in the system that could alleviate that. No valuable first round pick either. And on the roster, the only player with the value high enough to generate a return that could at least patch the offensive holes that didn't have a NTC was Phaneuf. Sutter was desperate to save his job and turn the ship around - it's not hard to see especially since just a couple of months prior, Burke had inquired as to availability of Phanuef, only to be rebuffed in the strongest of terms.

Furthermore, the timing of the trade can't be ignored either. Moving a 6.5M contract with term is very hard to do mid-season. The amount of trading partners is significantly limited, as opposed to a trade in the off-season, where teams have more leeway in taking on salary or shed cap if needed. The only team at that time that was looking to make major changes was Toronto, which was why they were the first and allegedly, only team Sutter called.

I'd consider the Phaneuf deal an outlier, but it still shows Burke knows how utilize leverage to achieve the best possible return.

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03-01-2013, 07:44 PM
  #72
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I wouldn't fire him just over this issue alone. Having said that I'm to the point with this team now that I could care less if they fired him and traded away most of the core.

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03-01-2013, 07:51 PM
  #73
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I don't know if I agree with your assessment about Zero impact. Here's why. under the initial understanding:

ROR for Calgary's 1rst & 3rd (historically 15-18 in the draft per round)

Worth it for the Av's? Not really. But ROR is signed at a couple of million more than we would like and we have to qualify him at 6.5 million and we can't trade him for a year, and there is all that stuff with his father etc...

Still player # 15-18 & player # 75-78 in 2013 draft. No, better match.

OR

Lose ROR
Not have to pay 6.5 million or qualify at 6.5 or potentially go through this again next year...

Colorado gets # 15-18 and 75-78 in draft and whatever else they can milk out of Columbus to convince Colorado to not match. Maybe Ryan Johansen and a 1rst or 2nd?? And you get to screw a division rival who just drove up the price on your RFA to 6.5 million.
CGY's first is almost guaranteed to be top 10, if not top 5. They are not suddenly going to leap frog 10 teams in the standings. So the AVS were already looking at a cpl of solid draft positions from CGY. The waiver issue, whether known or not, had zero effect on their decision. This came down to the AV'S believing they can get a better off next trade deadline for ROR. You don't base franchise decisions on whether you can screw another team... unless you are Jay Feaster.... see where that's got him.

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03-01-2013, 07:59 PM
  #74
Bodangles
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please no burke.
no interest in having draft picks wasted on hard nosed grinder type players for another 10 years.
Burke never once brought in grinders at the expense of good picks.

Orr -- signed as FA
Brown -- 122nd overall in '10, Chris Wagner -- who?
MacLaren -- signed as FA
Steckel -- 4th rnd pick
Komarov -- drafted by Leafs
McClement -- signed as FA

See, this is what I mean. People in the West have no clue what they're talking about when it comes to Burke.

EDIT: I will also say that there were lots of signings Burke made -- like Acouin, Fraser, Crabb, all of which are playing key roles on their respective teams, and Fraser leads the league in +/- playing big minutes for us -- when people bashed Burke for supposedly only targeting grinders. Now look.


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03-01-2013, 08:00 PM
  #75
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Hmm, I forget about that one. But I'd still hesitate to base a whole lot of anything from that move specifically because while did Burke demonstrate terrific acumen in that transaction, at the same time all he really did was take advantage of a desperate and panicking GM in Darryl Sutter.

The circumstances around that trade can't be ignored. Darryl was feeling a lot of pressure from ownership given a) four straight first round playoff exits and a general inability to deliver on his promises b) the third system switch in his tenure wasn't working c) he had traded that years 1st round pick for a ill-fitting Jokinen and d) the team was out of the playoffs and mired in a multi-game losing streak (that would reach a total of 9 games).

It was obvious that Sutter's attempt to bring back tough-nosed defense first hockey was failing and that the team simply did not have the depth to score enough goals. The Flames had few if any prospects in the system that could alleviate that. No valuable first round pick either. And on the roster, the only player with the value high enough to generate a return that could at least patch the offensive holes that didn't have a NTC was Phaneuf. Sutter was desperate to save his job and turn the ship around - it's not hard to see especially since just a couple of months prior, Burke had inquired as to availability of Phanuef, only to be rebuffed in the strongest of terms.

Furthermore, the timing of the trade can't be ignored either. Moving a 6.5M contract with term is very hard to do mid-season. The amount of trading partners is significantly limited, as opposed to a trade in the off-season, where teams have more leeway in taking on salary or shed cap if needed. The only team at that time that was looking to make major changes was Toronto, which was why they were the first and allegedly, only team Sutter called.

I'd consider the Phaneuf deal an outlier, but it still shows Burke knows how utilize leverage to achieve the best possible return.
Don't underestimate that this is a valuable skill.

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