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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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02-28-2013, 09:20 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Think about what it would take to get Couturier. That's what it would take to get Hamilton.
Think he's asking who from this year's draft could play either next year or the year after.

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02-28-2013, 09:21 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Think about what it would take to get Couturier. That's what it would take to get Hamilton.
????????

He was asking which of the defensemen in this year's draft will be ready to join the NHL the year after his draft, like Dougie Hamilton did.

I can't understand how you mistook that as him saying "We should trade for Dougie Hamilton".

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02-28-2013, 09:24 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
????????

He was asking which of the defensemen in this year's draft will be ready to join the NHL the year after his draft, like Dougie Hamilton did.

I can't understand how you mistook that as him saying "We should trade for Dougie Hamilton".
I've had a few beers.

Anyway, I want Dougie Hamilton AND I want Couturier. It's a depressing realization.



EDIT: The more and more I look at the list, the more and more I really think Seth Jones is the only one. The rest just aren't the complete package right now of size, awareness, and skill. Pulock is a maybe. Nurse is interesting, but I don't see him being ready yet.

One other thing to recognize is that Hamilton was already halfway through his season. Half a year of development after the draft is a big help.


Last edited by CS: 02-28-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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Old
03-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I wouldn't sell Laughton short. He's a complete player who is getting more comfortable and is starting to develop the offensive side of his game. It should be noted that before he left for Flyers training camp, he had something like 33 points in 32 games. In the 12 games since he returned, he's had 18 points and he's playing at a whole other level. On top of it, the guy is already defensively sound. Everyone seems to think that players like Laughton are a dime a dozen, but players who play nearly Selke award winning defense are very rare (see Couturier, Sean). I really like the Laughton pick and he's going to be a guy that a lot of teams will be kicking themselves over for not selecting him.

With that being said, I also get that he's redundant with the depth of centers that the Flyers currently have. If he can help land a potential franchise defenseman, then yes, I think you use him as part of the trade. However, don't think for one second that Laughton isn't a top prospect because that simply isn't true. More and more teams are really starting to become enamored with Laughton and his overall game.
I agree. Scott is a keeper who will fit in here very well. I to think it is better not to panic and let this team grow together.

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03-01-2013, 01:28 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I agree. Scott is a keeper who will fit in here very well. I to think it is better not to panic and let this team grow together.
Where does he fit, long term? Couturier is a C, Schenn pretty obviously cannot play wing, do you move G to wing and promote one of those two to his line just so you can fit Laughton in a top 9 role? We need a defensemen that can grow with this team. Gus is a solid prospect but I think his role will be limited to bottom pairing minutes, Ghost is a good prospect but how long does it take for him to come up? Does he go the JvR route and finish school before he turns pro? Even so is he really going to be ready for NHL playing time in a year or 2? We need a guy that can step in, in the next year or so that can eat big minutes and grow into a top pairing defensemen within the next year or so. Laughton is the best prospect we have at a redundant position. I don't think we can afford to not move him for a D prospect closer to the NHL then what we have.

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03-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #356
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I like Laughton but if you can package him for a guy like Runblad or Gormley, I'd do it.

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03-01-2013, 05:19 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Where does he fit, long term? Couturier is a C, Schenn pretty obviously cannot play wing, do you move G to wing and promote one of those two to his line just so you can fit Laughton in a top 9 role? We need a defensemen that can grow with this team. Gus is a solid prospect but I think his role will be limited to bottom pairing minutes, Ghost is a good prospect but how long does it take for him to come up? Does he go the JvR route and finish school before he turns pro? Even so is he really going to be ready for NHL playing time in a year or 2? We need a guy that can step in, in the next year or so that can eat big minutes and grow into a top pairing defensemen within the next year or so. Laughton is the best prospect we have at a redundant position. I don't think we can afford to not move him for a D prospect closer to the NHL then what we have.
Personally, I think the answer is to trade Couturier for a #1 defenseman or a potential #1 scoring winger and then to let Laughton assume the #3C role. Would lead to a more balanced lineup IMO.

I don't think Couturier will ever fully realize his offensive potential here on our 3rd line playing the hard minutes against opposing stars. And I think Laughton has the same type of defensive ability. Couturier belongs as a big-minutes #2C somewhere and he's not going to get that shot here IMO.

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03-01-2013, 05:30 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Personally, I think the answer is to trade Couturier for a #1 defenseman or a potential #1 scoring winger and then to let Laughton assume the #3C role. Would lead to a more balanced lineup IMO.

I don't think Couturier will ever fully realize his offensive potential here on our 3rd line playing the hard minutes against opposing stars. And I think Laughton has the same type of defensive ability. Couturier belongs as a big-minutes #2C somewhere and he's not going to get that shot here IMO.
I really love couturier but I would THINK about it if I were homer, depending on what young defenseman you could get for him.

Let's say you trade Couturier for Tyler Meyers, I'd draft Anthony Mantha with our 1st, because i really think hes a guy who can step into an nhl club immediately and be fine. then buyout Briere and sign perry...

But honestly, I think you need guys like couturier to win. I think he can be an elite shut down C in the nhl, and I think Laughton is going to be a good player, but I think couturier is better. I'd rather trade something like Laughton+ for Runblad or Gormley and then draft either another defenseman or a winger this year.

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03-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I really love couturier but I would THINK about it if I were homer, depending on what young defenseman you could get for him.

Let's say you trade Couturier for Tyler Myers, I'd draft Anthony Mantha with our 1st, because i really think hes a guy who can step into an nhl club immediately and be fine. then buyout Briere and sign perry...

But honestly, I think you need guys like couturier to win. I think he can be an elite shut down C in the nhl, and I think Laughton is going to be a good player, but I think couturier is better. I'd rather trade something like Laughton+ for Runblad or Gormley and then draft either another defenseman or a winger this year.
Take it for what it's worth, but in Scott Laughton's 5 game rookie trial, 0 goals were scored while he was on the ice. Thats during a little over 57 mins of game time. Having followed Laughton's career, I think he's a little more advanced defensively in juniors than Couturier was. The only thing that Couturier has on Laughton IMO (other than offensive ability) is size, which could end up being a factor. I'm not an advocate of trading Couturier for junk or for a medocre D like JayBo or Brian Campbell, but if the right deal came along, I'd be comfortable moving him.

I really think in the end that Couturier has so much more potential that he'll be allowed to realize in Philly playing only the #3 shutdown C role. And I also think that Laughton can step in and be an elite defensive forward too. Laughton will never have the offensive ability of Couturier, but as the #3C we don't really need him to. To liken this to Pittsburgh's situation, I'd say Couturier is our Staal and Laughton is our Sutter. Couturier is nice, but he's a luxury as a 3C and we're never going to use him to his fullest, so it would be a skillful use of resources if we could turn that luxury into a #1D or an elite scoring winger, both of which we lack at the moment.

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03-01-2013, 06:04 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Personally, I think the answer is to trade Couturier for a #1 defenseman or a potential #1 scoring winger and then to let Laughton assume the #3C role. Would lead to a more balanced lineup IMO.

I don't think Couturier will ever fully realize his offensive potential here on our 3rd line playing the hard minutes against opposing stars. And I think Laughton has the same type of defensive ability. Couturier belongs as a big-minutes #2C somewhere and he's not going to get that shot here IMO.
I agree completely to be honest

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03-01-2013, 06:38 PM
  #361
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I think couturier's upside is as high as anyone we have on the roster and I think because of it the flyers are very reluctant to move him.

In hindsight having drafted Hamilton could have presented us with a solution to many answers.

Hartnell Giroux Voracek
Simmonds Schenn Briere
JVR Laughton Read
Talbot Fedotenko Rinaldo

Kimmo Hamilton
Coburn Mez
Gus Grossman

to be that is a better lineup than we are fieilding right now.

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03-01-2013, 06:55 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Hartnell Giroux Voracek
Simmonds Schenn Briere
JVR Laughton Read
Talbot Fedotenko Rinaldo

Kimmo Hamilton
Coburn Mez
Gus Grossman
I still would have traded JVR.

Then you would have:

Kimmo-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Hamilton-Mez

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03-02-2013, 12:15 AM
  #363
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Just read the new LEIJONAT-magazine and discovered that Artturi Lehkonen, possible first round pick, is a huge Flyers-fan.

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03-02-2013, 12:29 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by SzabaDabaDyy View Post
Just read the new LEIJONAT-magazine and discovered that Artturi Lehkonen, possible first round pick, is a huge Flyers-fan.
Would love to have him. Small, but really skilled. Doesn't seem like a Flyers pick, but you never know.

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03-02-2013, 12:30 AM
  #365
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Would be a good pick. Would suck if the Ducks got him (probably a late 1st rounder?) and adds another Flyers fan to their ranks :/.

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03-02-2013, 07:24 AM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Personally, I think the answer is to trade Couturier for a #1 defenseman or a potential #1 scoring winger and then to let Laughton assume the #3C role. Would lead to a more balanced lineup IMO.

I don't think Couturier will ever fully realize his offensive potential here on our 3rd line playing the hard minutes against opposing stars. And I think Laughton has the same type of defensive ability. Couturier belongs as a big-minutes #2C somewhere and he's not going to get that shot here IMO.
I have no problem trading Couturier but would rather wait a couple of years to see where his development goes. The Flyers would be selling low now. As far as production, Mike Richards was a point per game player as a third line center between Downie and Hartnell his 3rd year. He could end up better than Brayden Schenn.

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03-02-2013, 09:42 AM
  #367
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I think it's a big mistake to trade Couturier. He's a 20 year old that has been given crap for linemates for his early career and hasn't really had a chance to play with elite talent. I still think he will force the Flyers to move Giroux to the wing and he'll be the top line center. I think this is what we can expect in the next few years:

Hartnell - Couturier - Giroux
Simmonds - Schenn - Voracek
Gagne - Laughton - Talbot
Rinaldo - Holmstrom* - McGinn

I fully expect Gagne to be re-signed to a 3 year deal at 1.5 to 2 million per season. Great veteran mentor for Laughton and he won't be expected to produce as much as anyone in the top six. I also have a gut feeling that the Flyers will re-sign Ben Holmstrom to make him the fourth line guy.

As for the defense, I'm really not sure what to expect. Timonen has one more year, then after that, things are going to get very interesting. Depending on who the Flyers draft this year, that should go a long way in seeing who will be in the top six. I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Coburn - Ristolainen/Nurse/Pullock/Morrisey
Schenn - Gostisbehere
Gustafsson - Grossmann

Finally, the goaltending will still be spear headed by Bryz, but I hope the Flyers do him a solid and get him a legitimate backup. Would love to see Heeter get a chance to be the back up or even Munroe, but gut feeling says they'll go some other direction. Maybe sign and bring over Eriksson.

EDIT: Completely forgot about Read. Who knows, maybe he plays on that third line with Laughton and Gagne or he gets moved for a defenseman (McBain from Carolina?).

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03-03-2013, 09:59 AM
  #368
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I agree with not wanting to trade Cooter, but where is Cousins in all this and if Read is resigned (here is hoping) not sure where Gagne fits in with future plans (especially for 3 years? Not sure he gets 3.)

The draft is coming quicker than we think (5 months) -- I would hold off on a panic trade of Cooter to see what happens in the draft in terms of drafting defensemen that could possibly play right out of the gate - thus keeping elite level assets.

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03-03-2013, 10:04 AM
  #369
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Hartnell - Schenn - Giroux
Simmonds/Read - Cooter - Voracek
Read/Simmonds - Laughton - Cousins
Rinaldo - Holmstrom - Talbot/McGinn

Coburn - Grossman
Schenn - Gostisbehere
Gustafsson - Ristolainen/Nurse/Pulock/Morrisey

How does this rub you? Just throwing it out there.

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03-03-2013, 10:23 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I would hold off on a panic trade of Cooter to see what happens in the draft in terms of drafting defensemen that could possibly play right out of the gate - thus keeping elite level assets.
Jones is the only one ready to play in the NHL next year. If you're counting on an 18 year old to step right in and sure up your defense, you're fooling yourself.

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03-03-2013, 10:44 AM
  #371
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Why would we move Giroux to wing when he's been a 90+ point scorer at C and has also become one of the best in the Faceoff circle in the league this year? I think one of Couturier or Laughton will be traded, more likely Laughton. However, I don't think it will be until next season.

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03-03-2013, 12:57 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Why would we move Giroux to wing when he's been a 90+ point scorer at C and has also become one of the best in the Faceoff circle in the league this year? I think one of Couturier or Laughton will be traded, more likely Laughton. However, I don't think it will be until next season.
I have to agree. I don't understand how people talk about moving your franchise center to wing when he has become the player he is. He plays better at the center position anyway. Great face off guy now also. You move on of the kids to wing so they can learn the position before they are locked into being centers. Schenn I feel makes the better winger. Also if Laughton plays on the team next year, he will be the 4th line center most likely. I would like him to stay for one more year in juniors and show off his offensive talent when the team becomes his. I feel like we are looking way to far down the road when we are thinking about our center depth. Laughton needs to establish himself first before debating what to do with him or any other young centers.

But to conclude no way you move g to wing

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03-03-2013, 01:23 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Why would we move Giroux to wing when he's been a 90+ point scorer at C and has also become one of the best in the Faceoff circle in the league this year? I think one of Couturier or Laughton will be traded, more likely Laughton. However, I don't think it will be until next season.
Giroux might actually be more effective on the wing. People forget that when Giroux was drafted, he was a winger in the QMJHL. He played on the right side with Gatineau, but was versatile in that he could also play on the left side and also played a bit at center. The reason he was moved to center in Philadelphia was simply because of his play making skills. Has he excelled at the center spot? Absolutely. But just think how much better Giroux can be when his only responsibility would be offense. That's why moving a guy like Couturier to the top line and moving Giroux to the wing would be so ideal - Couturier could continue with the defensive assignments, while alleviating the defensive burden on Giroux.

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03-03-2013, 02:00 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Giroux might actually be more effective on the wing. People forget that when Giroux was drafted, he was a winger in the QMJHL. He played on the right side with Gatineau, but was versatile in that he could also play on the left side and also played a bit at center. The reason he was moved to center in Philadelphia was simply because of his play making skills. Has he excelled at the center spot? Absolutely. But just think how much better Giroux can be when his only responsibility would be offense. That's why moving a guy like Couturier to the top line and moving Giroux to the wing would be so ideal - Couturier could continue with the defensive assignments, while alleviating the defensive burden on Giroux.
You're still overlooking his faceoff prowess. There's no doubt he's skilled enough to play the wing, he's one of the most skilled players in the league, but it's a completely different game on the wing. Playing center you get a lot more room to work with which makes it harder to contain a guy like Claude. Some guys are just better suited to play center. Schenn has been a completely different player since moving back to center. We know how Briere is as well. Giroux can play wing for Team Canada if that makes you feel better, but you don't move your franchise player out of the #1 center role just to because you want to label Couturier a #1 center. You win with depth down the middle. There's a reason centers are more valued come draft day than wingers.

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03-03-2013, 02:06 PM
  #375
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Chicago is unreal, #88 ties it with 2 minutes left to send it to OT.

lol wrong thread oops

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