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Rumour: Flyers interested in Dustin Byfuglien

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Old
02-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #126
gholas
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Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
Well I've been thread-banned from the Trade Rumors thread on this.

Buff should be someone we consider "untouchable" from the viewpoint that he's a key piece to this teams success. Try to entertain an actual discussion on his value though without using that word and suddenly he becomes available for scraps. A second-line winger and third-line center for the Flyers can be untouchable but a defenseman who plays 25 minutes a night and is the main catalyst of the offense (both PP and even strength) is junk .

Also, apparently he has less value than Jack Johnson and he was bad defensively in Chicago
I had to get outta there as well, I'm thinking of making a Twilight Zone intro video clip, but editing Rod's voice to say "you're now entering the Trade Rumors Zone" Instead of actually reacting to the posters wacked trade request, I could just post the video clip.

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02-28-2013, 04:23 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I disagree with the bolded part.
Thats like saying to be a good three point shoot, you have to be able to play defence.

If we're talking about offensive abilities then their defensive ability is irrelevant. I would agree that to be considered top overall defenseman you need defensive ability.
But the discussion was about where buff ranks offensively.
Not the same. The argument here is that Buff is the number two offensive dman = not the second most talented, not the third hardest shot, not the fastest skater - the number two offensive defense man. The point is, to me, that Buff needs a second, cover his behind d-man on the ice with him. What would his offensive numbers look like if he had to play decent defense. I'd say less. In his big scoring years, he was still a minus.
And in saying all this, I still think he is good and he seems to be a fan favorite.

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02-28-2013, 04:31 PM
  #128
wpgsilver
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Not the same. The argument here is that Buff is the number two offensive dman = not the second most talented, not the third hardest shot, not the fastest skater - the number two offensive defense man. The point is, to me, that Buff needs a second, cover his behind d-man on the ice with him. What would his offensive numbers look like if he had to play decent defense. I'd say less. In his big scoring years, he was still a minus.
And in saying all this, I still think he is good and he seems to be a fan favorite.
whatever you say.
Obviously I'm trying to hit a moving target here.
Like you said the argument is not about particular skills, it's about being an offensive defenseman. So how do you assess the total offensive package. Well offensive output is where most people would start, and that's how people arrive at him being behind only Karlsson.


Last thing, you keep denigrating Buffs defensive ability when if you actually watch him this year,when healthy, he looks good.

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02-28-2013, 04:37 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Not the same. The argument here is that Buff is the number two offensive dman = not the second most talented, not the third hardest shot, not the fastest skater - the number two offensive defense man. The point is, to me, that Buff needs a second, cover his behind d-man on the ice with him. What would his offensive numbers look like if he had to play decent defense. I'd say less. In his big scoring years, he was still a minus.
And in saying all this, I still think he is good and he seems to be a fan favorite.
Fun fact:
As a pair Enstrom-Byfuglien have been a plus pair all three seasons together, but they've both been minus' at times apart.

2010-13
PlayersTOIGF/20GA/20GF%CF%
Together 1688:07 0.887 0.870 50.5 52.5
Enstrom 655:43 0.702 0.915 43.4 48.1
Byfuglien 999:31 0.880 0.920 48.9 53.6

I love looking at Enstrom and Byfuglien because you can see that they are better together than they are apart.
Also, if you look over the last 3 seasons, it keeps getting better and better...


Last edited by garret9: 02-28-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 05:27 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
whatever you say.
Obviously I'm trying to hit a moving target here.
Like you said the argument is not about particular skills, it's about being an offensive defenseman. So how do you assess the total offensive package. Well offensive output is where most people would start, and that's how people arrive at him being behind only Karlsson.


Last thing, you keep denigrating Buffs defensive ability when if you actually watch him this year,when healthy, he looks good.
Offense only. The Good. Great point shot. Mobile in the zone with the puck - especially for a big man. Creates space for skill players. Hard to knock off the puck.

The Not Good. Not a good passer - especially outlet pass. Not effective carrying puck in to the zone. Tends to stand around without the puck.

And yeah, I think he is below average defensively.

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02-28-2013, 05:46 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
(...)
The Not Good. Not a good passer - especially outlet pass.
(...)
Are we watching the same player? IMHO, his strong outlet passes are one of his strengths.


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Old
02-28-2013, 05:48 PM
  #132
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Keep Buff, trade Enstrom. All the Jets do without Enstrom is win.

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02-28-2013, 05:50 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Offense only. The Good. Great point shot. Mobile in the zone with the puck - especially for a big man. Creates space for skill players. Hard to knock off the puck.

The Not Good. Not a good passer - especially outlet pass. Not effective carrying puck in to the zone. Tends to stand around without the puck.

And yeah, I think he is below average defensively.
I would highly disagree with this statement...

His outlet pass, gaining effective zone possession and passing ability has been one of his strengths for years and years and years...


Defensively he's not that bad...

Looking at last season:
Shots against: 145th (which puts him at about average)
Out-chancing the opponent: 29th (which puts him in the top tier)
RelCorsi (which takes away team affects by looking at how much better your team does out-chancing the opponent when you're on the ice vs when you're off the ice): 6th (which puts him in elite status)
He does this while facing tough competition... you can't be a defensive plug to get that...

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Old
02-28-2013, 05:51 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Keep Buff, trade Enstrom. All the Jets do without Enstrom is win.
Correlation bias error

Jets had a decent record with Flood but he's terrible.

Plus look above and it seems pretty obvious how Byfuglien is not nearly as good without Enstrom.

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Old
02-28-2013, 06:12 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I would highly disagree with this statement...

His outlet pass, gaining effective zone possession and passing ability has been one of his strengths for years and years and years...


Defensively he's not that bad...

Looking at last season:
Shots against: 145th (which puts him at about average)
Out-chancing the opponent: 29th (which puts him in the top tier)
RelCorsi (which takes away team affects by looking at how much better your team does out-chancing the opponent when you're on the ice vs when you're off the ice): 6th (which puts him in elite status)
He does this while facing tough competition... you can't be a defensive plug to get that...
Agreed, when he was out of the line up, things got UGLY.

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02-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Are we watching the same player? IMHO, his strong outlet passes are one of his strengths.

Sure. Dustin Penner.

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Old
02-28-2013, 07:16 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Offense only. The Good. Great point shot. Mobile in the zone with the puck - especially for a big man. Creates space for skill players. Hard to knock off the puck.

The Not Good. Not a good passer - especially outlet pass. Not effective carrying puck in to the zone. Tends to stand around without the puck.

And yeah, I think he is below average defensively.
Well you made it clear to everyone that watches Byfuglien or knows anything about hockey that you are talking out of your rear.

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Old
02-28-2013, 09:52 PM
  #138
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Price for Buff just sky-rocketed!

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02-28-2013, 10:25 PM
  #139
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Price for Buff just sky-rocketed!
Not for those who know what we have in him!

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Old
02-28-2013, 10:51 PM
  #140
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Can't see Chevy making any moves to subtract core players from the line-up. Maybe see him add, but not subtract, imo. Maybe sign Trouba?

I'm thinking Buff is staying here, now, if there was even any consideration on Chevy's part to 'entertain' offers for him.

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02-28-2013, 11:58 PM
  #141
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Is anyone able to pick up the YouTube for Buff's end to end? It might make sense for me to post it on the trade rumors thread on the main board?

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03-01-2013, 01:31 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Is anyone able to pick up the YouTube for Buff's end to end? It might make sense for me to post it on the trade rumors thread on the main board?
Not YouTube, but here it is off NHL.com -> http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...ed-share-video

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03-01-2013, 02:54 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by ahplk View Post
Not YouTube, but here it is off NHL.com -> http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...ed-share-video
While you're at it, howsabout Buff at approx 1:20 into this one?


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03-01-2013, 03:31 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
While you're at it, howsabout Buff at approx 1:20 into this one?

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...ed-share-video

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:03 PM
  #145
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This is an interesting discussion to say the least. It would take a heck of an offer to pry Buff from the Jets but when you look at an offer like both Schenns for Buff, it would really be an offer to think about.

Don't get me wrong, I love Buff. He has an excellent x factor to him and can be extremely versatile, but Luke Schenn has a decent +/- of +5 on a team that has been struggling with an average of 20 min of ice time. He's known as a fairly reliable defencemen that has a decent shot (no Buff rocket but a decent shot) And getting Brayden would help our offense quite a bit IMO. Unfortunately our center position is a bit clogged but Brayden is a great young player that can definitely be a core player for our team.

Now.....the likeliness of this trade is slim to nil, because I believe Holmgrem, while an excentric GM to say the least, is a fairly smart one, and will see this is an overpayment. But if offered, I would take the Schenns for Buff in the end.

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Old
03-01-2014, 11:03 AM
  #146
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Love buffs game and would love to see him in orange and black, but for the love of god hit someone!!!

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Old
03-01-2014, 11:05 AM
  #147
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Massive 1 yr threadbump.

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Old
03-01-2014, 11:08 AM
  #148
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Sorry I'm a newbie. Couldn't resist. Will watch closer next time thanks for heads up.

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Old
03-01-2014, 11:20 AM
  #149
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I still think a trade involving Buff to the Flyers makes perfect sense for both teams...

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Old
03-01-2014, 11:43 AM
  #150
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If you're going to trade one of the Jets core pieces, I would personally select Enstrom or Kane. But only in the offseason. Byfuglien is one of the Jets best players, I would never trade him.

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