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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
03-01-2013, 09:53 AM
  #601
otto bond
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He seems a little less explosive on his skate, but I think that the extra 10lbs hurt him. He's having a lurning curbe under MT and I like his play overall.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:16 AM
  #602
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I also find their use of Subban somewhat puzzling...but look at the teams record and their performance

Maybe reduced icetime and a reduced role is better for the team? I'm starting to believe that 'pulling the reigns' on Subban is exactly what he and this team need for him to continue to evolve as a player and for the team to continue to improve

His time will come...i'm not worried about that.
And being used less than almost every other D at ES, and being the least used one on the PK where he excelled is also a good thing?

Looking at the record is meaningless. Otherwise, why did we trade Cole? After all, we were winning.

Point is, PK is our best Dman, or at the very least 2nd best. Yet he's being used as a PP specialist, getting very little ice time at ES and on the PK.

To me it just seems like they want PK to start from scratch. Not a strategy I understand, and certainly not one explainable by the fact that we are currently winning games.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:17 AM
  #603
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so what ?
Figure it out.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:53 AM
  #604
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welcome to last season.
Subban's performance this year is excellent, as shown by his Corsi #s and his on-ice save%.

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:10 AM
  #605
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Kriss. As I stated earlier, subban should be a Hab for life.

I just don't understand your complaints. They would be valid if Subban was benched or playing 10 minutes a night. But he's not.

It would also be valid if we were a last place team. But we're not.

As of today, all of our DMen are performing well and it shows when you see how much our D has improved over last year.

Team first Kriss. Therrien has a plan and a system. It appears to be working.

Be patient.

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03-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  #606
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And being used less than almost every other D at ES, and being the least used one on the PK where he excelled is also a good thing?

Looking at the record is meaningless. Otherwise, why did we trade Cole? After all, we were winning.

Point is, PK is our best Dman, or at the very least 2nd best. Yet he's being used as a PP specialist, getting very little ice time at ES and on the PK.

To me it just seems like they want PK to start from scratch. Not a strategy I understand, and certainly not one explainable by the fact that we are currently winning games.
Hey....I don't disagree, like I said, I find their use of Subban and the organizations evaluation of Subban, at least from my point of view, somewhat puzzling

But I personally find trouble focusing on Subban's use when the team as a general is playing so well.

Markov/Emelin + Gorges/Diaz (when he was healthy) were performing very well...so yeah, I think the team would probably be better used with Subban playing more. But they are playing well

You can't ignore their current performance...and this is coming from a HUGE Subban fan.

I agree in principle with, I just don't see why this needs to be an issue above the team...Subban is probably playing the type of role and minutes he SHOULD of been playing last year.

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Old
03-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #607
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Kriss. As I stated earlier, subban should be a Hab for life.

I just don't understand your complaints. They would be valid if Subban was benched or playing 10 minutes a night. But he's not.

It would also be valid if we were a last place team. But we're not.

As of today, all of our DMen are performing well and it shows when you see how much our D has improved over last year.

Team first Kriss. Therrien has a plan and a system. It appears to be working.

Be patient.
Nobody is complaining. I didn't criticize management on anything. I simply made an observation. Seems some people have a hard time differentiating the two.

I feel like he's being held back because you don't see him attempt some of the risky but very nice plays he did last year. I think the kid is making a very strong effort to please our coaching staff. I don't necessarily agree with they way they're using him, I think he should be playing more because I feel he's the best Dman (or 2nd best) on our squad, but that's a moot point.

See, that's just an observation. Not a complaint.

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Hey....I don't disagree, like I said, I find their use of Subban and the organizations evaluation of Subban, at least from my point of view, somewhat puzzling

But I personally find trouble focusing on Subban's use when the team as a general is playing so well.

Markov/Emelin + Gorges/Diaz (when he was healthy) were performing very well...so yeah, I think the team would probably be better used with Subban playing more. But they are playing well

You can't ignore their current performance...and this is coming from a HUGE Subban fan.

I agree in principle with, I just don't see why this needs to be an issue above the team...Subban is probably playing the type of role and minutes he SHOULD of been playing last year.
Well, this is a Subban thread, so obviously we're discussing his usage.

Team is playing very well, but I still think we could improve. Playing Subban more at ES and PK would help us imo. That's not because I like PK and just want him on the ice all the time. That's because I feel we're playing less talented players more than him. Playing PK more is better for the team.

Somehow it's gotten around that saying we want more of PK means we're being individualists. I'm not. More PK=Better Habs Team, at least imo.

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Old
03-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

Well, this is a Subban thread, so obviously we're discussing his usage.

Team is playing very well, but I still think we could improve. Playing Subban more at ES and PK would help us imo. That's not because I like PK and just want him on the ice all the time. That's because I feel we're playing less talented players more than him. Playing PK more is better for the team.

Somehow it's gotten around that saying we want more of PK means we're being individualists. I'm not. More PK=Better Habs Team, at least imo.
I don't disagree here...and like I said, I agree with you in priciple.

I just rather think that things will change as the season unfolds...at least I hope

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03-01-2013, 05:05 PM
  #609
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Figure it out.
Did a while ago no worries. We both know that while you pretend you're just making observations and all, reality is you have a hard time dealing with the fact your little darling isnt on the ice as much as you'd like to.

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03-01-2013, 05:50 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Did a while ago no worries. We both know that while you pretend you're just making observations and all, reality is you have a hard time dealing with the fact your little darling isnt on the ice as much as you'd like to.
Well that is not dishonest at all...

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03-01-2013, 05:53 PM
  #611
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Well that is not dishonest at all...
well, when you need to specify you arent blaming/criticising that often...

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03-01-2013, 06:41 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Nobody is complaining. I didn't criticize management on anything. I simply made an observation. Seems some people have a hard time differentiating the two.

I feel like he's being held back because you don't see him attempt some of the risky but very nice plays he did last year. I think the kid is making a very strong effort to please our coaching staff. I don't necessarily agree with they way they're using him, I think he should be playing more because I feel he's the best Dman (or 2nd best) on our squad, but that's a moot point.

See, that's just an observation. Not a complaint.



Well, this is a Subban thread, so obviously we're discussing his usage.

Team is playing very well, but I still think we could improve. Playing Subban more at ES and PK would help us imo. That's not because I like PK and just want him on the ice all the time. That's because I feel we're playing less talented players more than him. Playing PK more is better for the team.

Somehow it's gotten around that saying we want more of PK means we're being individualists. I'm not. More PK=Better Habs Team, at least imo.
Maybe fretting is a better word to use than complaining.

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Old
03-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #613
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Now that there are a lot more games played, it's clear that Therrien believes when it comes to minutes it should break down

Even Strength (F/A ratio: 1.50 for 2nd best)
1. Emelin (17:06)
2. Gorges (17:05)
3. Markov (16:16)
4. Cube (15:25)
5. Subban (14:58)
6. Diaz (14:56)

Short-Handed (PK: 82.9% for 13th)
1. Gorges (3:09)
2. Markov (2:42)
3. Emelin (2:32)
4. Diaz (2:08)
5. Cube (1:28)
6. Subban (0:53)

Power Play (PP: 19.6% for 11th)
1. Markov (5:06)
2. Subban (4:06)
3. Diaz (3:31)
4. Kaberle (3:02)
5. Cube (1:53)
6. Weber (1:21)

Nothing should change much on the ES minutes. We're only behind Chicago for the results. Subban is getting the second most minutes on the PP behind Markov and it's close to the Top 10, adding Ryder it should only get better. No need to change that either. The only possible change is the penalty kill where Diaz and Boullion are getting more minutes than him. Subban is an underrated penalty killer on the team.

In terms of TOI/G, Subban is now 4th at 19:58. Nobody on the team breaks 21 aside from Markov. The only adjustment there I'd make is giving Subban a little more penalty killing time.

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Old
03-01-2013, 07:58 PM
  #614
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Did a while ago no worries. We both know that while you pretend you're just making observations and all, reality is you have a hard time dealing with the fact your little darling isnt on the ice as much as you'd like to.
How does this have anything to do with ''4 other Dmen are also playing 20min''??



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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, when you need to specify you arent blaming/criticising that often...
Southern Hab is the first time this was brought up. I know it's tough to follow conversations, but try to keep up, otherwise just don't bother.

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:11 PM
  #615
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We both know that while you pretend you're just making observations and all, reality is you have a hard time dealing with the fact your little darling isnt on the ice as much as you'd like to.
quoted so I can use it when Eller-lover are crying about his ice time

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:08 PM
  #616
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quoted so I can use it when Eller-lover are crying about his ice time
that's how you categorize people, haters or lovers ? really ?

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03-01-2013, 10:10 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How does this have anything to do with ''4 other Dmen are also playing 20min''??





Southern Hab is the first time this was brought up. I know it's tough to follow conversations, but try to keep up, otherwise just don't bother.
you know what, for a guy who talk as he knows everything and is smarter than anyone else, I'm quite surprised you havent come up with the simplest possible solution -> dont respond to posts if they're that stupid to you.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:32 PM
  #618
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Montreal's PK has a 82.9% effectiveness rate, average.

Let's put the PK back into the PK.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:41 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Now that there are a lot more games played, it's clear that Therrien believes when it comes to minutes it should break down
Www
Even Strength (F/A ratio: 1.50 for 2nd best)
1. Emelin (17:06)
2. Gorges (17:05)
3. Markov (16:16)
4. Cube (15:25)
5. Subban (14:58)
6. Diaz (14:56)

Short-Handed (PK: 82.9% for 13th)
1. Gorges (3:09)
2. Markov (2:42)
3. Emelin (2:32)
4. Diaz (2:08)
5. Cube (1:28)
6. Subban (0:53)

Power Play (PP: 19.6% for 11th)
1. Markov (5:06)
2. Subban (4:06)
3. Diaz (3:31)
4. Kaberle (3:02)
5. Cube (1:53)
6. Weber (1:21)

Nothing should change much on the ES minutes. We're only behind Chicago for the results. Subban is getting the second most minutes on the PP behind Markov and it's close to the Top 10, adding Ryder it should only get better. No need to change that either. The only possible change is the penalty kill where Diaz and Boullion are getting more minutes than him. Subban is an underrated penalty killer on the team.

In terms of TOI/G, Subban is now 4th at 19:58. Nobody on the team breaks 21 aside from Markov. The only adjustment there I'd make is giving Subban a little more penalty killing time.
The last paragraph says it all. Considering the visible slowing of Markov since the start of the season, wouldn't it be best to limit his TOI, to keep him fresher for the playoffs and give Subban more?

If this team goes .500 for the next ten games, a playoff spot is statistically safe. Better to have a more confident Subban and a rested Markov, no?

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03-01-2013, 10:44 PM
  #620
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The last paragraph says it all. Considering the visible slowing of Markov since the start of the season, wouldn't it be best to limit his TOI, to keep him fresher for the playoffs and give Subban more?

If this team goes .500 for the next ten games, a playoff spot is statistically safe. Better to have a more confident Subban and a rested Markov, no?
pretty sure if there's only a few games left a PO spot is secured, they'll find a way to rest Markov. Wether it's scratching him for a game or two or reduce his ice-time.

but there's almost 30 games left to play, no rush to do that now.

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03-01-2013, 10:50 PM
  #621
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pretty sure if there's only a few games left a PO spot is secured, they'll find a way to rest Markov. Wether it's scratching him for a game or two or reduce his ice-time.

but there's almost 30 games left to play, no rush to do that now.
At the rate he seems to be slowing now, waiting too long to give Markov a break would appear to be a bad idea. Plus, we have two Dmen who are not playing at all. A little timely platooning could have the General hale and hearty for the
second season.

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Old
03-01-2013, 10:56 PM
  #622
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At the rate he seems to be slowing now, waiting too long to give Markov a break would appear to be a bad idea. Plus, we have two Dmen who are not playing at all. A little timely platooning could have the General hale and hearty for the
second season.
I know, but I can see the coach thinking that since it wont last (Markov play 22+ min a night) they might as well use him a ton now so they can get more W or something.

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03-02-2013, 02:00 AM
  #623
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Markov is 14th in points and 1st in PPP.
Pretty good for a slow player...

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Old
03-02-2013, 02:27 AM
  #624
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that's how you categorize people, haters or lovers ? really ?
You certainly don't have a problem doing that. Oh no right, you used the word Darling instead. My bad.

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you know what, for a guy who talk as he knows everything and is smarter than anyone else, I'm quite surprised you havent come up with the simplest possible solution -> dont respond to posts if they're that stupid to you.
I like to give people chances, maybe more than I should. I certainly don't seem to have a problem keeping up conversations with many other posters here, no matter how strongly we may disagree on a subject.

For some reason, you feel I have this condescending tone and your pride or ego is just too big. It's too bad, you could drop the dumb remarks such as ''your darling'' and we could have an actual conversation. But you seem to prefer resorting to petty name calling like a 6yo.

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Old
03-02-2013, 02:59 AM
  #625
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You certainly don't have a problem doing that. Oh no right, you used the word Darling instead. My bad.



I like to give people chances, maybe more than I should. I certainly don't seem to have a problem keeping up conversations with many other posters here, no matter how strongly we may disagree on a subject.

For some reason, you feel I have this condescending tone and your pride or ego is just too big. It's too bad, you could drop the dumb remarks such as ''your darling'' and we could have an actual conversation. But you seem to prefer resorting to petty name calling like a 6yo.
saying ?

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