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Old
07-20-2006, 08:59 AM
  #76
ArchieIsGod
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Originally Posted by Marksman2 View Post
Gagne 03-04: 80 games 24+21
Gagne 05-06: 72 games 47+32

I think playing with Foppan shows right here.

Dont get me wrong I like Gagne, I have no doubt he couldnt put over 60 points with Habs - but then so could Ryder.

Somehow I dont see Flyers dealing him away - they have almost complete team after signing Sanderson (for propably something like 1.5M/year) and their payroll should be around 39M - just enough to squeeze Gagne in somehow.


alot of players saw an increase in points after the lock out thanks to the new rules...also gagne brings one of the best two way games in the league

i really hope the rumors are just that

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Old
07-20-2006, 09:10 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by crazyshea View Post
I agreed with your post up until this. Ryder and a first for gagne is definitly not overpaying. The first round pick would be in the 15-20 range and well ryder to me has very limited abilities. Gagne is a superstar and all is a HUGE upgrade over ryder. Sure gagne wont produce as much as he would with forsberg but he will score just as much or more in mtl. The big difference between them is their defensive play and skating abilities. Ryder is horrible in his own end and a terrible skater. I know we will never get gagne for ryder+1st round pick but to say that if we did it would be over paying is just crazy.
You're probably right. I'm just pretty anal when it comes to draft picks. And I really think Ryder is much better than people give him credit for.

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Old
07-20-2006, 09:14 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I really think Ryder is much better than people give him credit for.
I'm ready to believe that for now. We all still can remember his rookie season, much better all-round game, so I'll blame this overall regression hidden on the stat sheet by a few more goals on the injury. Based on that I want to see him play an other year to pass definite judgement on him. If he can find his rookie season game back and still manage to get 30+ he's definitelly a long term keeper.

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Old
07-20-2006, 09:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
Since Gainey doesnt want to give up 4 first rounders the rumor is this: Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek, and a #1 pick for Gagne.
So Gainey wouldn't be willing to part with 4 bottom half 1st round picks yet would be ready to part with 2 key roster players, a 1st pick and one of their top prospects for Gagne? Just to be perfectly clear: this package >> 4 low first rounders.

Right. That makes a whole lot of sense.

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Old
07-20-2006, 09:27 AM
  #80
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Once the Habs acquired Samsonov the legs should have been cut out from underneath this rumour. Why would the Habs throw 3.5 million at Sergei then trade good young players (ie. Higgins, Markov etc...) to acquire Gagne, who is looking for Alex Tanguay money.

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Old
07-20-2006, 10:02 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
So Gainey wouldn't be willing to part with 4 bottom half 1st round picks yet would be ready to part with 2 key roster players, a 1st pick and one of their top prospects for Gagne? Just to be perfectly clear: this package >> 4 low first rounders.

Right. That makes a whole lot of sense.
Dont shoot the messenger, i'm just passing on what the rumor.

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Old
07-20-2006, 10:08 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by flyersfan21 View Post
Dont shoot the messenger, i'm just passing on what the rumor.
I wasn't shooting at you I was shooting at the rumor.

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Old
07-20-2006, 10:14 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bayrider View Post
Former Flyer Marc Bureau stirred up the rumor mill in Montreal this week, suggesting on television that the Canadiens should tender a long-term offer to Gagne that would force the Flyers to match it. Gagne said he heard a similar rumor about a month ago and dismissed it. "Every summer I hear I'm going to Montreal," Gagne said. "If it were true, I would hope the Flyers matched the offer. But I don't think it's true." Montreal GM Bob Gainey and Clarke are close friends, so such a move would be unlikely. Also, offer sheets to restricted free agents are considered taboo among general managers these days.


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14982637.htm
Dear Mr. Gagne,

Why would you sign an offer sheet from a team you do not want to play for and then expect Bob Clarke to bail you out by matching the offer? Piece of advice, DON"T SIGN THE OFFER SHEET!

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Old
07-20-2006, 10:33 AM
  #84
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I really like Gagne as a player. He brings speed,skill and a good sense of how to play the game. He's shown how good he is when alongside a dominant player. To send 4 players or picks though, I'd want a stand alone player. By that term, I mean a guy like a Lecav.[at his best] or Staal, someone whose presence changes the other players. Forsberg,Thornton, you can argue the individuals, it's all opinion anyways, but gagne imo is complimentary, a guy who can tear it up in the right circumstance. He doesn't create the circumstance though, and that's the type I'd break the bank for.

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Old
07-20-2006, 10:44 AM
  #85
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I'm amused at how some fans want to underpay for Gagné (Ryder + 1st rounder) or state flatly that he's overrated x3, while others want to deal away the store for him. I still say Samsonov + a 2007 1st rounder is about right, although if Clarke insists, sweeten the pot by adding someone like Ferland or Korpikari.

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Old
07-20-2006, 11:22 AM
  #86
Munchausen
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I still say Samsonov + a 2007 1st rounder is about right, although if Clarke insists, sweeten the pot by adding someone like Ferland or Korpikari.
Right. Sign Samsonov as a UFA, then ship him out before the season even starts. Then look up to 10+ years of UFAs avoiding Montreal like the plague.

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Old
07-20-2006, 11:32 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
Right. Sign Samsonov as a UFA, then ship him out before the season even starts. Then look up to 10+ years of UFAs avoiding Montreal like the plague.
Haha i can picture all the gainey sucks threads now

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Old
07-20-2006, 11:54 AM
  #88
waffledave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
Right. Sign Samsonov as a UFA, then ship him out before the season even starts. Then look up to 10+ years of UFAs avoiding Montreal like the plague.
Wouldn't be very different than it is now.

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Old
07-20-2006, 12:00 PM
  #89
gars59
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whitout forberg this years

21-9-5-14 (on pace for 35 goals 55 points)

whit forberg
51-38-27-65 (on pace for 104 point 61 goals)

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Old
07-20-2006, 12:11 PM
  #90
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its bobby clarke is the Gm here so I doubt hes going to trade for euros hes not that type of a GM he would want Ryder or Higgins and draft picks I imagine.

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Old
07-20-2006, 12:32 PM
  #91
Munchausen
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Wouldn't be very different than it is now.
We did get one didn't we? And the fact we didn't get a lot in the last few years has been due much more to the fact this whole organization sucked (and I never use that word, but this time it's appropriate) under the Corey/Houle regime. We're just starting to get a bit of credibility back with the organization around the league. Best way to completely shoot it dead for the next couple decades would be to trade Samsonov. If after 1 year it's clear it doesn't work then different story.

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Old
07-20-2006, 12:53 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
Right. Sign Samsonov as a UFA, then ship him out before the season even starts. Then look up to 10+ years of UFAs avoiding Montreal like the plague.
Didnt happen to Boston, they traded a UFA quite quick last season and still managed to sign guys this year

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Old
07-20-2006, 01:05 PM
  #93
Munchausen
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Originally Posted by Habsaholic View Post
Didnt happen to Boston, they traded a UFA quite quick last season and still managed to sign guys this year
True, but the team was in a downward spiral when they traded Scatchard. Plus they've had a complete management restructuring since. I think if we were to find ourselves in the same situation come early December, nobody would be safe from a shake-up move. But signing and trading a UFA before he even plays one game for you is downright idiotic IMO.

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Old
07-20-2006, 01:06 PM
  #94
waffledave
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Originally Posted by Habsaholic View Post
Didnt happen to Boston, they traded a UFA quite quick last season and still managed to sign guys this year
They also have a new GM and a new coach.

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Old
07-20-2006, 01:39 PM
  #95
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i dont think offering quality prospects and ryder for a soon to be UFA is an astute business or hockey move. gagne isn't much better than ryder anyways, and the youngsters we're mentioning won't become UFA's for a while and could end up having better careers than simon (the ones mentioned all have upside).

Pronger who had around 5 years left on his contract costed a scorer (lupul=ryder), a prospect(smid=kostistysn/perez) and a first rounder (what many of you are throwing around)...plus some compensation picks if ducks win the cup.
So you think gagne is worth a similar package, in some cases even more...with the likes of komisarek being thrown into the deal? Gagne is worth more than chris pronger? lol.

seriously, what in the hell are some of you smoking?
ryder for gagne straight up is the most appropriate deal. due to the fact that gagne will make more money, and do probably just a little better than ryder in montreal. but unlike gagne, i don't believe ryder becomes an UFA next year...as a result the flyers attain a player that can maintain some security over.

the habs aren't the ones in cap trouble, it's the flyers. why should we take into their ridiculous demands?

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Old
07-20-2006, 01:51 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
i dont think offering quality prospects and ryder for a soon to be UFA is an astute business or hockey move. gagne isn't much better than ryder anyways, and the youngsters we're mentioning won't become UFA's for a while and could end up having better careers than simon (the ones mentioned all have upside).

Pronger who had around 5 years left on his contract costed a scorer (lupul=ryder), a prospect(smid=kostistysn/perez) and a first rounder (what many of you are throwing around)...plus some compensation picks if ducks win the cup.
So you think gagne is worth a similar package, in some cases even more...with the likes of komisarek being thrown into the deal? Gagne is worth more than chris pronger? lol.

seriously, what in the hell are some of you smoking?
ryder for gagne straight up is the most appropriate deal. due to the fact that gagne will make more money, and do probably just a little better than ryder in montreal. but unlike gagne, i don't believe ryder becomes an UFA next year...as a result the flyers attain a player that can maintain some security over.

the habs aren't the ones in cap trouble, it's the flyers. why should we take into their ridiculous demands?
Ryder for Gagne? Why don't you ask for Jeff Carter too.

If anyone's on the chronic, it's you...

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Old
07-20-2006, 02:11 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
i dont think offering quality prospects and ryder for a soon to be UFA is an astute business or hockey move. gagne isn't much better than ryder anyways, and the youngsters we're mentioning won't become UFA's for a while and could end up having better careers than simon (the ones mentioned all have upside).

Pronger who had around 5 years left on his contract costed a scorer (lupul=ryder), a prospect(smid=kostistysn/perez) and a first rounder (what many of you are throwing around)...plus some compensation picks if ducks win the cup.
So you think gagne is worth a similar package, in some cases even more...with the likes of komisarek being thrown into the deal? Gagne is worth more than chris pronger? lol.

seriously, what in the hell are some of you smoking?
ryder for gagne straight up is the most appropriate deal. due to the fact that gagne will make more money, and do probably just a little better than ryder in montreal. but unlike gagne, i don't believe ryder becomes an UFA next year...as a result the flyers attain a player that can maintain some security over.

the habs aren't the ones in cap trouble, it's the flyers. why should we take into their ridiculous demands?
Ryder + Ribeiro can be fair for Gagne

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07-20-2006, 02:11 PM
  #98
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Like I posted last week, Ryder + Perezhogin for Gagne is a fair deal. Maybe, just maybe, a 1st pick conditional to him signing long-term with us.

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Old
07-20-2006, 02:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Ryder + Ribeiro can be fair for Gagne
The Flyers can't afford Gagne at 5+ million so you're suggesting they take Ribeiro's salary (1.9) and Ryder's (likely to be 2.5 range) which roughly gives you 4.5$ for both of them? I don't see much difference in that. Plus, the habs don't need Gagne, now that Samsonov is playing with Kovalev there's no other great talent on the team to feed Gagne like Forsberg has done

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Old
07-20-2006, 02:20 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Ryder for Gagne? Why don't you ask for Jeff Carter too.

If anyone's on the chronic, it's you...
You don't understand the new CBA, i know... Are you look the Tanguay's trade???

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