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Has Tatar earned more ice time???

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Old
03-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #76
VladTheImpaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooDLE View Post
I don't understand why Babcock trusts putting Brunner with Zetterberg, but doesn't seem to trust putting Tatar with Datsyuk?
It's because Babcock thinks Brunner always plays "real good" or "fantahstic."

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03-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Tatar is the most promising young Red Wings forward I've seen in a long, long time.
Probably since Zetterberg was a rookie
I think if he spent the rest of the season on Datsyuk's line, he'd get calder consideration.

I honestly expect this kid to turn into a 35 goal man one day. Maybe in the next 2-3 seasons.

He's a hard worker. He's effective on the boards. He makes plays. He attacks the net. I'm very impressed with this kid.

I don't think he'll be on the level of Zetterberg or Datsyuk...but I can see him on the level of a Franzen
I can see it, I mean, in the small sample size we've seen this season, Tatar has been the 3rd best forward we've had on the team. We need to bump Abdelkader down and move Tatar up to play with Datsyuk. Datsyuk has been trying to force plays and do it all himself because his linemates have been completely useless. Giving him Tatar on his wing would give him a tenacious young player that plays hard against the boards, can also create space, and most importantly, he can finish plays.

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03-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooDLE View Post
I don't understand why Babcock trusts putting Brunner with Zetterberg, but doesn't seem to trust putting Tatar with Datsyuk?
Babcock is a dumabass. That's why

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03-01-2013, 01:50 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Babcock is a dumabass. That's why
I think the best move would be to get Nyquist up. I think it's crucial to have offensive talents in the bottom 6 and I think moving Tatar up and having nothing will cause even more problems. Even though I don't like the idea of having Bert and Samuelsson here next year, them coming back will help a lot of depth issues.

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03-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think the best move would be to get Nyquist up. I think it's crucial to have offensive talents in the bottom 6 and I think moving Tatar up and having nothing will cause even more problems. Even though I don't like the idea of having Bert and Samuelsson here next year, them coming back will help a lot of depth issues.
I think Babcock is terrified of having forwards that are weak defensively because he knows the defense itself is weak defensively also. Somebody on the ice has to be responsible, and it looks like it'll have to be the forward group.

I don't really agree with that, but I think that's the idea.

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03-01-2013, 02:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I think Babcock is terrified of having forwards that are weak defensively because he knows the defense itself is weak defensively also. Somebody on the ice has to be responsible, and it looks like it'll have to be the forward group.

I don't really agree with that, but I think that's the idea.
But the problem I have with that is Tatar hasn't shown to be a defensive liability. He's young so he's still got growth without the puck, but so did Brunner. Holmstrom, Datsyuk's most frequent linemate over the years, was typically the worst forward on the team defensively.

In addition, it's not like Cleary and Abdelkader are Selke caliber defensive forwards. Just because you're blue collar doesn't mean you're effective. In fact, you can pretty much count on at least one defensive zone turnover per game when it comes to them, and Cleary has been terrible at turning the puck over at the offensive zone blueline which creates easy transition.

I think Babcock is simply over thinking the move.

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03-01-2013, 05:02 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think the best move would be to get Nyquist up. I think it's crucial to have offensive talents in the bottom 6 and I think moving Tatar up and having nothing will cause even more problems. Even though I don't like the idea of having Bert and Samuelsson here next year, them coming back will help a lot of depth issues.
I think that's silly.
Having Tatar playing the way he does will make Datsyuk more dynamic.

And having Datsyuk play dynamic is a lot more important that having a fourth line play with some pop


It's funny watching people defend Babcock on this. Just like they defended Lashoff on the top pairing (a decision that cost us several points in the standings)

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03-01-2013, 05:16 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I think that's silly.
Having Tatar playing the way he does will make Datsyuk more dynamic.

And having Datsyuk play dynamic is a lot more important that having a fourth line play with some pop


It's funny watching people defend Babcock on this. Just like they defended Lashoff on the top pairing (a decision that cost us several points in the standings)
No, you've missed my point. I'm saying that if we put Tatar on the 1st line right now with Filppula, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson injured, we need to call up Nyquist for the 3rd line to replace the absence of Tatars offense. Calling up Tatar helps Datsyuk, helps Tatar and the team, but it creates another problem. Calling up Nyquist and putting him on the 3rd line rather than Cleary or Abdelkader potentially alleviates that problem.

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03-01-2013, 10:27 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
No, you've missed my point. I'm saying that if we put Tatar on the 1st line right now with Filppula, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson injured, we need to call up Nyquist for the 3rd line to replace the absence of Tatars offense. Calling up Tatar helps Datsyuk, helps Tatar and the team, but it creates another problem. Calling up Nyquist and putting him on the 3rd line rather than Cleary or Abdelkader potentially alleviates that problem.
Ah. Ok.
Still, I think we're roster maxxed out

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03-01-2013, 10:38 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Ah. Ok.
Still, I think we're roster maxxed out
With a GM from the collective minds of our board. We'd be rolling!

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03-01-2013, 11:23 PM
  #86
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Every single game, the play of Datsyuk's linemates and the play of Tatar makes the decision not to dump Abby/Cleary for Tatar more and more confusing.

Abby, with 3-4 games under his belt with Datsyuk, seeing some PP time, still only has one. freaking. point. in the entire year.

I'm sorry, but you could take 99% of the guys from beer leagues around the country and they could match that kind of production from Abby if they had Datsyuk centering them.

What's even more infuriating? Babcock continues to say he LIKES THE LINE. It's one thing to do it if you think you have no other choice! But he actually likes it! That is *bewildering*

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03-02-2013, 12:28 AM
  #87
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Has Tatar earned more ice time?

That's like asking...

Does a bear **** in the woods?

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03-02-2013, 12:38 AM
  #88
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Not sold on Tatar earning more ice time. He has been good, but not "realgood."

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03-02-2013, 01:03 AM
  #89
VladTheImpaler
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Not sold on Tatar earning more ice time. He has been good, but not "realgood."
Has he been "fahntahstic?" or how about "outstahnding?"

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03-02-2013, 06:09 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I think that's silly.
Having Tatar playing the way he does will make Datsyuk more dynamic.

And having Datsyuk play dynamic is a lot more important that having a fourth line play with some pop


It's funny watching people defend Babcock on this. Just like they defended Lashoff on the top pairing (a decision that cost us several points in the standings)
I do not know why Babcock waited for so long to put Ericsson with Kronwall intstead of Lashoff, but he did it in the end.
I think it will be the same with Tatar. Babcock simply can't have Abby and Cleary with Datsyuk. Everybody sees that it is wasting Datsayuk's talent.
Franzen-Z-Brunner
Cleary-Datsyuk-Tatar
or if Babcock really wants to keep those 2 lines, then
Abby-Z-Brunner
Franzen-Datsyuk-Cleary
Dastyuk needs a player he can pass to.
A huge problem with Abby and Cleary is:
1. They do not know how to get open so Dastyuk can't pass the puck to them
2. They can't pass the puck to Datsyuk
3. They can't score (Obviously Abby 1 point in his last 35 games.

Yet, Babcock plays Abby on the PP. Abby has no business there. I would rather play Eaves on the PP than Abby.

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03-02-2013, 07:41 AM
  #91
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I saw that interview where he said it's been good to give Justin A an expanded role... WHAT THE ****K

Do they watch the games>

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03-02-2013, 07:42 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
I do not know why Babcock waited for so long to put Ericsson with Kronwall intstead of Lashoff, but he did it in the end.
I think it will be the same with Tatar. Babcock simply can't have Abby and Cleary with Datsyuk. Everybody sees that it is wasting Datsayuk's talent.
Franzen-Z-Brunner
Cleary-Datsyuk-Tatar
or if Babcock really wants to keep those 2 lines, then
Abby-Z-Brunner
Franzen-Datsyuk-Cleary
Dastyuk needs a player he can pass to.
A huge problem with Abby and Cleary is:
1. They do not know how to get open so Dastyuk can't pass the puck to them
2. They can't pass the puck to Datsyuk
3. They can't score (Obviously Abby 1 point in his last 35 games.

Yet, Babcock plays Abby on the PP. Abby has no business there. I would rather play Eaves on the PP than Abby.
I think Eaves is done. His skating has been impacted by his constant time away.
Good to see him get an extremely luck goal.

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:15 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I think Eaves is done. His skating has been impacted by his constant time away.
Good to see him get an extremely luck goal.
I agree with the point though.

Eaves > Abby on a power play.

Crap, Miller and Tootoo are also probably better on a PP than Abby.

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03-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
But the problem I have with that is Tatar hasn't shown to be a defensive liability. He's young so he's still got growth without the puck, but so did Brunner. Holmstrom, Datsyuk's most frequent linemate over the years, was typically the worst forward on the team defensively.

In addition, it's not like Cleary and Abdelkader are Selke caliber defensive forwards. Just because you're blue collar doesn't mean you're effective. In fact, you can pretty much count on at least one defensive zone turnover per game when it comes to them, and Cleary has been terrible at turning the puck over at the offensive zone blueline which creates easy transition.

I think Babcock is simply over thinking the move.
agree

i don't see much difference in defensive play between tatar and brunner. imo, it is tatar's size and strength on the boards that keeps him off datsyuk's line. he is not crap in those areas, but they are his strength, and he isn't as good as cleary or abdelkader there.

but i think it would be a good idea to try tatar with datsyuk. tatar is a smart offensive player even without the puck, which is not true of most of the F's. tatar also has not had any TOI in OT where there is more open ice.



i think babcock's idea with abdelkader - datsyuk - cleary is to combine datsyuk's ability to control play with boring grinding on the boards. datsyuk is often playing like a defensive midfielder in the offensive zone. instead of datsyuk's typical puck possession game, that line is keeping opponents in their own end by cleary's and abdelkader's grinding on the boards while datsyuk waits for something to develop (attack), or for opponents to get the puck (defend).

that line has been used more against top lines of opponents (sedins, toews) since it has been together.

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03-04-2013, 10:25 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
agree

i don't see much difference in defensive play between tatar and brunner. imo, it is tatar's size and strength on the boards that keeps him off datsyuk's line. he is not crap in those areas, but they are his strength, and he isn't as good as cleary or abdelkader there.

but i think it would be a good idea to try tatar with datsyuk. tatar is a smart offensive player even without the puck, which is not true of most of the F's. tatar also has not had any TOI in OT where there is more open ice.



i think babcock's idea with abdelkader - datsyuk - cleary is to combine datsyuk's ability to control play with boring grinding on the boards. datsyuk is often playing like a defensive midfielder in the offensive zone. instead of datsyuk's typical puck possession game, that line is keeping opponents in their own end by cleary's and abdelkader's grinding on the boards while datsyuk waits for something to develop (attack), or for opponents to get the puck (defend).

that line has been used more against top lines of opponents (sedins, toews) since it has been together.
Too bad Cleary has been awful with board play, and Abdelkader is a turnover machine.

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03-04-2013, 12:01 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
agree

i don't see much difference in defensive play between tatar and brunner. imo, it is tatar's size and strength on the boards that keeps him off datsyuk's line. he is not crap in those areas, but they are his strength, and he isn't as good as cleary or abdelkader there.

but i think it would be a good idea to try tatar with datsyuk. tatar is a smart offensive player even without the puck, which is not true of most of the F's. tatar also has not had any TOI in OT where there is more open ice.



i think babcock's idea with abdelkader - datsyuk - cleary is to combine datsyuk's ability to control play with boring grinding on the boards. datsyuk is often playing like a defensive midfielder in the offensive zone. instead of datsyuk's typical puck possession game, that line is keeping opponents in their own end by cleary's and abdelkader's grinding on the boards while datsyuk waits for something to develop (attack), or for opponents to get the puck (defend).

that line has been used more against top lines of opponents (sedins, toews) since it has been together.
And they've kept them in check. with the makeup of the team right now, they have to grind out points. They desperately need their special teams to pick it up right now. The powerplay is the one point in the game where they can put enough skill on the ice to get something done...but they're not.

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03-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #97
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much rather see 22 than abby with pav.ive been loving toots the past few games. at least he wont get owned in the corners like pavs linemates have been lately.

flaming turd, i wish he would just go away.

perhaps its about time we pool some money together and hire someone to go break his legs.


Last edited by theanomaly: 03-04-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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03-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #98
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What happens if Abby or Cleary gets injured? Is it the only way Babcock gives Tatar a shot?

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03-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
What happens if Abby or Cleary gets injured? Is it the only way Babcock gives Tatar a shot?
Somebody spike Abdelkader's water with laxatives pronto

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03-05-2013, 05:04 PM
  #100
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And they've kept them in check. with the makeup of the team right now, they have to grind out points. They desperately need their special teams to pick it up right now. The powerplay is the one point in the game where they can put enough skill on the ice to get something done...but they're not.
question is whether cleary and abdelkader and the loss of offense are necessary for that. datsyuk was still very effective with homer, who was arguably the worst ES top 6 player in the NHL. last season, datsyuk's line with bertuzzi and franzen was rarely scored on at ES until datsyuk got injured.

i don't think it is just that abdelkader and cleary are weak offensive players, datsyuk is also not as involved in the offensive zone b/c the line is just grinding on the boards. is this the best way to use datsyuk?

plus, toews line was not really shut down, it just happened not to score b/c of luck and howard.

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