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Sharks vs. Red Wings: Robocop Edition, 7:30 PM PST, CSN-CA

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Old
03-01-2013, 08:58 PM
  #876
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by BCShark View Post
was that the detroit series in 07 where patty jumped over the puck resulting in a goal?
Yes. 33 seconds left I believe. I That tied it and wings won in Overtime. And turned the series around and won that too IIRC.

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Old
03-01-2013, 09:02 PM
  #877
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You mean Brunner? The guy with 10 goals?
Fail. He was referring to Clowe....Go nitpick on something else.

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03-01-2013, 09:38 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by BCShark View Post
was that the detroit series in 07 where patty jumped over the puck resulting in a goal?
No that was when Marleau and Guerin combined for an awful giveaway and Nabby let in a weak goal with 30 seconds left to tie the game.

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Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan View Post
I think that was Dallas in 08.
Correct. The infamous "bunny hop".

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03-01-2013, 09:48 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
No that was when Marleau and Guerin combined for an awful giveaway and Nabby let in a weak goal with 30 seconds left to tie the game.



Correct. The infamous "bunny hop".
You're right. I was thinking of this where he tried take it down the boards instead of taking his man against the boards and tying the puck up, which can be found here at around the 2:20 mark.


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Old
03-01-2013, 09:49 PM
  #880
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Marleau just thought he was playing soccer when he hopped. He got confused is all.

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03-01-2013, 10:01 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by joseph_kerr View Post
Come on. Patty gets a bum rap from people but that's not coming out of nowhere. He's the one with the big body and more importantly the wheels to be laying people out. Who's little Joe going to catch while skating in his molasses patch? Couture might be able to take Kyle Wellwood down if he has an extra bowl of wheaties. Maybe.

It's always the opposite of real life. We want the big fella to be a bully. We want him to use his size to push the smaller boys around. We want him to have bad intentions. We just somehow managed to get the two bigs guys from Canada that just want to give peace a chance.
Why does a big body require you to hit other people? That's not the objective. If you're hitting a lot, it likely means you're losing the game in one aspect or another. The point is to score more goals than the other team and you do that by getting the puck. Marleau is more skilled at getting the puck than he is at hitting someone. Besides, if he goes for the hit, it more than likely takes him out of the play for the puck. That's not what a highly-skilled forward ought to be doing.

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03-01-2013, 10:53 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Why does a big body require you to hit other people? That's not the objective. If you're hitting a lot, it likely means you're losing the game in one aspect or another. The point is to score more goals than the other team and you do that by getting the puck. Marleau is more skilled at getting the puck than he is at hitting someone. Besides, if he goes for the hit, it more than likely takes him out of the play for the puck. That's not what a highly-skilled forward ought to be doing.
I don't see it as an either or. He shouldn't have always been running around looking for the big hit but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been a good tool to have in the toolbox especially in the playoffs. It can set a tone for your team and keep the other wondering.

But that's me. I think Joe should have ****ing torn Toews apart for coming at him as well. Put him in the hospital with broken bones and taught him it's best to not try biting a bigger dog.

That's how it is though, these guys have always played down to their opponents and it's not changing.

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03-01-2013, 11:17 PM
  #883
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Am I the only one who feels like some people would be happier with Marleau if he scored half as many goals but dropped the mitts every handful of games? (and for those folks- who do you think is more valuable to this team right now- Clowe or Marleau?)

Say whatever you want about "heart". (Though the fact that he consistently shows up to camp in the best physical condition of the team states that his cardiovascular health is fine) Marleau consistently pots 30 goals a year. In his last seven seasons, he has only failed to miss that mark once. In 14 seasons, he has scored 20+ in eleven of them. The guy can score, consistently. Please let that sink in.

Does he fight? No. Does it matter? No. He's way more valuable to our team on the PP than he is in the box. I don't want my goal scorers sitting for five plus, and I definitely don't want them getting injured unnecessarily. Does he throw big hits? Nope, but he battles it out in front of the net and is strong on the forecheck- while managing to keep himself off IR.

Is there room for criticism? Sure. But to act like he is the sole reason the Sharks are failing is ludicrous. You want to trade him? Fine, but there better be a solid plan to replace his guaranteed production.

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03-01-2013, 11:44 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Southlake View Post
Am I the only one who feels like some people would be happier with Marleau if he scored half as many goals but dropped the mitts every handful of games? (and for those folks- who do you think is more valuable to this team right now- Clowe or Marleau?)
Yes you are the only one. A lot of people bash Marleau because of his quiet demeanor and not showing any emotion. Not because he doesnt fight.

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Say whatever you want about "heart". (Though the fact that he consistently shows up to camp in the best physical condition of the team states that his cardiovascular health is fine) Marleau consistently pots 30 goals a year. In his last seven seasons, he has only failed to miss that mark once. In 14 seasons, he has scored 20+ in eleven of them. The guy can score, consistently. Please let that sink in.
He doesnt produce enough to justify his Cap hit imo. The one season which he didnt score 30 is 2007-2008, when he pretty much sulked the entire year which probably didnt sit well with a lot of fans. That and his numerous playoff disappearances of course.


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03-01-2013, 11:56 PM
  #885
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Nobody is expecting Marleau to "drop the mitts" vs. goals. Thats just stupid.

Comapring Clowe with Marleau? Really? two different type of players. Bad comparison.

Marleau shows up in the "best physical condition of the team"... Do you have a source on this??? Ive never heard this. Ever.

Criticism? Yes. Marleau is nowhere close to being what he was 5+ years ago.

I dont blame Marleau for the Sharks demise, but he IS part of the problem. hes just not the same player he once was. neither is JT. Its time for a rebuild. The Sharks are nowhere close to the rest of the NHL at this point...

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03-02-2013, 12:07 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
He doesnt produce enough to justify his Cap hit imo.
I'd be inclined to agree- but I would be surprised if his next contract is for the same amount. I don't think he's the end all, be all of great players, and he isn't even my favorite player on the team. It's just irritating that people seem to want to trade him based more on his personality than anything else.

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03-02-2013, 12:17 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Nobody is expecting Marleau to "drop the mitts" vs. goals. Thats just stupid.

Comapring Clowe with Marleau? Really? two different type of players. Bad comparison.

Marleau shows up in the "best physical condition of the team"... Do you have a source on this??? Ive never heard this. Ever.

Criticism? Yes. Marleau is nowhere close to being what he was 5+ years ago.

I dont blame Marleau for the Sharks demise, but he IS part of the problem. hes just not the same player he once was. neither is JT. Its time for a rebuild. The Sharks are nowhere close to the rest of the NHL at this point...
My apologies- I should have made it more clear that I didn't really intend to compare Clowe and Marleau- I was using that as an example because it is ridiculous. Two totally different players- two totally different people. But what do people value more- Marleau's skill or Clowe's passion? Which is, I suppose, an interesting question in and of itself. I'd say most people want to cheer for the passion (why everyone loves an underdog) but we need the skill to win.

As for his condition- I read an interview where it was stated that he frequently comes into camp in the best shape out of the team. I'll see if I can dig it up.

If we're rebuilding- we may have to trade Marleau. Depends on how deep the rebuild is. If we're completely gutting the team- then he has to go. To a certain extent- he is a part of the team personality. At the same time, his quiet personality also seems like he could blend in in different environments. In a smaller scale rebuild- he's bland enough that he could go along with it. But, if he is going to go, he needs to be replaced by a player, or players, who can match his production. Not just traded for the sake of trading.

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:20 AM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southlake View Post
Am I the only one who feels like some people would be happier with Marleau if he scored half as many goals but dropped the mitts every handful of games? (and for those folks- who do you think is more valuable to this team right now- Clowe or Marleau?)

Say whatever you want about "heart". (Though the fact that he consistently shows up to camp in the best physical condition of the team states that his cardiovascular health is fine) Marleau consistently pots 30 goals a year. In his last seven seasons, he has only failed to miss that mark once. In 14 seasons, he has scored 20+ in eleven of them. The guy can score, consistently. Please let that sink in.

Does he fight? No. Does it matter? No. He's way more valuable to our team on the PP than he is in the box. I don't want my goal scorers sitting for five plus, and I definitely don't want them getting injured unnecessarily. Does he throw big hits? Nope, but he battles it out in front of the net and is strong on the forecheck- while managing to keep himself off IR.

Is there room for criticism? Sure. But to act like he is the sole reason the Sharks are failing is ludicrous. You want to trade him? Fine, but there better be a solid plan to replace his guaranteed production.
No, there is no need for Marleau to fight. It's cool, but leave that to somebody else. When he did it against Bieksa, it was meaningful, but why in hell should he stop scoring to make the fans cheer and get excited? Clowe, Wingels, Murray, Burns, Desjardins, and even Thornton all can fight, why should Marleau do it if he ****ing sucks at it, and is really good at everything else.

Marleau and Boyle are two of the most important players to this team and they CAN NOT be traded unless a full rebuild is officially committed to. Marleau is our fastest skater and the only natural scoring wing on the team with above average speed. I'm sure he is cared for more than fans make him out to be in the locker room, he always puts in effort, and really, it doesn't have to go further than Mike Babcock's comments: Marleau is very effective and helps the team in many ways when he's not scoring. He's scored 30 goals 4 years straight which also kinda helps.

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:23 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Nobody is expecting Marleau to "drop the mitts" vs. goals. Thats just stupid.

Comapring Clowe with Marleau? Really? two different type of players. Bad comparison.

Marleau shows up in the "best physical condition of the team"... Do you have a source on this??? Ive never heard this. Ever.

Criticism? Yes. Marleau is nowhere close to being what he was 5+ years ago.

I dont blame Marleau for the Sharks demise, but he IS part of the problem. hes just not the same player he once was. neither is JT. Its time for a rebuild. The Sharks are nowhere close to the rest of the NHL at this point...
5 years ago was his worst year in recent history at only 19 goals. Every year since, he has been a 30+ goal guy. His best scoring year ever came less than 5 years ago, as well has his best playoff performances.

Marleau is one of the players that has kept a consistent level over the past 5 years. What you said there is literally based on nothing.

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:34 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
He doesnt produce enough to justify his Cap hit imo.
What kind of ridiculous statement is this? Patrick Marleau is FOURTH in goals in the entire league since the start of his current contract. He is 22nd in cap hit. And this is while playing a top defensive role. "Oh but that's just regular season!" He's FIFTH in playoff goals since then.

You are out to lunch.

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03-02-2013, 12:48 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by joseph_kerr View Post
It's always the opposite of real life. We want the big fella to be a bully. We want him to use his size to push the smaller boys around. We want him to have bad intentions. We just somehow managed to get the two bigs guys from Canada that just want to give peace a chance.
It's the Mike Rathje syndrome... Everyone wanted him to kill players but it just wasn't his game. He finally developed into an elite shutdown defensman who Tkachuk and Jagr both sited as one of the most difficult defenseman to play against.

Other NHL players have an appreciation for Marleau but fans want fireworks. So anytime the goals dry up for Marleau the hate comes out cause it's more difficult for the casual fan to tell that he's effective at other aspects of the game.

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03-02-2013, 02:39 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
What kind of ridiculous statement is this? Patrick Marleau is FOURTH in goals in the entire league since the start of his current contract. He is 22nd in cap hit. And this is while playing a top defensive role.

You are out to lunch.
His numbers are similar to Matt Moulson who has a 3.3M cap hit. In the first 2 years of his contract he has averaged 34 goals and 69 points. In comparison Pavelski who is making 4 million a year, has averaged 26 goals and 64 points. I would say they are similar in defensive ability too. Couture isnt too far behind either.

Quote:
"Oh but that's just regular season!" He's FIFTH in playoff goals since then.
This is something I would expect Doug Wilson to say. Its not surprising that he is 5th in goals. The Sharks have played 38 playoff games the last 3 years. Marleau is tied for 5th with 15 goals. Pavelski is tied for 8th with 14. Couture and Setoguchi are tied for 13th with 12 goals. If we broke down Marleau's playoffs by each series, would it really look impressive?

So is a 34 goal, 68 point player worth 7 million a year?

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03-02-2013, 06:40 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
His numbers are similar to Matt Moulson who has a 3.3M cap hit. In the first 2 years of his contract he has averaged 34 goals and 69 points. In comparison Pavelski who is making 4 million a year, has averaged 26 goals and 64 points. I would say they are similar in defensive ability too. Couture isnt too far behind either.



This is something I would expect Doug Wilson to say. Its not surprising that he is 5th in goals. The Sharks have played 38 playoff games the last 3 years. Marleau is tied for 5th with 15 goals. Pavelski is tied for 8th with 14. Couture and Setoguchi are tied for 13th with 12 goals. If we broke down Marleau's playoffs by each series, would it really look impressive?

So is a 34 goal, 68 point player worth 7 million a year?
He isn't worth 7 million but he is and was easily worth 6 million. I'm pretty sure that the year he signed that contract, he scored 44 goals. Along with everything else he can do, he's a high end player and he was/is one of the faces of the franchise. So no he's not worth 7 million but it was practically a loyalty and respect bonus.

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Old
03-02-2013, 12:44 PM
  #894
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I'm sorry, did we just compare Moulson and Pavelski defensively? Moulson is a one-zone player.

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03-02-2013, 12:51 PM
  #895
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Matt Moulson also has the benefit of playing with one of the best players in the league. Hes a decent goal scorer but lets be honest..without Tavares he isn't getting 30+ a year.

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03-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
His numbers are similar to Matt Moulson who has a 3.3M cap hit. In the first 2 years of his contract he has averaged 34 goals and 69 points. In comparison Pavelski who is making 4 million a year, has averaged 26 goals and 64 points. I would say they are similar in defensive ability too. Couture isnt too far behind either.

This is something I would expect Doug Wilson to say. Its not surprising that he is 5th in goals. The Sharks have played 38 playoff games the last 3 years. Marleau is tied for 5th with 15 goals. Pavelski is tied for 8th with 14. Couture and Setoguchi are tied for 13th with 12 goals. If we broke down Marleau's playoffs by each series, would it really look impressive?

So is a 34 goal, 68 point player worth 7 million a year?
This is a backpedal. Parse it all you like, your statement that he doesn't produce enough for his cap hit is completely unsupported by any evidence. The fact that there may be other players producing more than their cap hit value doesn't change that (that is the nature of the NHL salary structure).

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03-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #897
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So is a 34 goal, 68 point player worth 7 million a year?
You're not paying for 34 goals and 68 points. You're paying for those eyebrows.

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03-02-2013, 02:49 PM
  #898
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You're not paying for 34 goals and 68 points. You're paying for those eyebrows.

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03-02-2013, 05:44 PM
  #899
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Just stopped by to say epic game time thread

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