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Old
07-19-2006, 11:04 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Burnside_1 View Post
I understood it was illustrating growth, but the part in bold answers basically makes me want to stop discussion this with you lol.

Good for you friends, Qc is a nice town. But approx. nine out of ten people i'm going to school with who want some sort of carreer challenge/opportunity are moving to MTL, some by choice because they're sick of the village, but many others simply because they don't have the choice...
I can't disagree theres still a lot of mover, but I think its less of an issue nowadays, when I finished school there wasnt any way I could work at Quebec, created my own business only to realize there was plenty of opportunities. Most of my clients are from Montreal, but in the recent years the number from Quebec did grow in signifiance and importance.

What did you disliked about my 300k house comments? hehe, I wasnt saying I own one hehe, but I'll sure buy my 10k nords pass.

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07-19-2006, 11:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I don't know where you are getting a fan base of 2M plus but according to this http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/canadian_cities.html site Quebec and Winnipeg are almost exactly the same size and are far smaller the Ottawa.

Also Quebec City is far from a rich city. In fact according to Revenue Canada, the average income in 2001 was 26,531$, Ottawa on the other hand is over 40,000$ and Winnipeg was at 30,160$. You can find that info half way down this page http://www.city.welland.on.ca/EDC/profile/eIncome.pdf
Those numbers are pretty much bogus for 1 simple reason, Quebec City as a city is not the same it was in 2001. Its now Quebec, Ste-foy, Charlesbourgh all together.(So basically the richer part of the city added to the mostly working class(the one in the stats.)

After this year census we will know much more.

And then you add the economic boom started by the CDTI, the Liberal politics with their move to the private sector.(Quebec City being the main city to profit from this) All this added to the massive retraitees in the public sector and you have a recipe for a big economic rebound that is happening today.

I just learn more details about this rumor on the radio, weird weird, Its been said Red Bull actually bought a big chunk of space near the Gallerie de la Capitale. That being said, maybe its just a skate park of some stuff like this, but there is no official details on what they are planning to do. The plot thickens. Dreams Dreams Dreams.

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07-20-2006, 11:03 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
All this added to the massive retraitees in the public sector and you have a recipe for a big economic rebound that is happening today.
Why is mass retirement good for the economy?

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07-20-2006, 11:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Why is mass retirement good for the economy?
Exactly. A decreasing working force is recipe for economic stagnation, not a rebound!


Anyway, all of this is a moot point. If you have read wednesday's Journal de Montreal, Gary Bettman says that there is no plans for expansion, and they're working their arses off to keep the 30 teams where they currently are.

Meaning, the Pens will stay in Pittsburgh.

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07-20-2006, 11:46 AM
  #80
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just learn more details about this rumor on the radio, weird weird, Its been said Red Bull actually bought a big chunk of space near the Gallerie de la Capitale.
On which station??

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07-20-2006, 12:41 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by J-D View Post
Exactly. A decreasing working force is recipe for economic stagnation, not a rebound!
Yeah but the situation is looking much better with Mrs Boucher. The city is no longer focusing only on the retired persons and the pseudo elite.


That said, the growth of Québec is nothing compare to the growth of Edmonton, Calgary, Raleigh etc and there is still NO ONE other than Tanguay that invest in sports. Le Cirque won't make us a 200 millions gift with all the low blows from our governements and La Caisse won't throw away the money of their members either. Quebecor/videotron never invested in sports and nothing indicate that they will start. Specially that they could have bought the Habs for a price similar that to get a team in Quebec.

The population would NEVER accept that the city gives hundreds of millions for an arena even with garantees that Québec would get a team. If Quebec is a big enough market their should be private investors (and there is none).

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07-20-2006, 01:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Why is mass retirement good for the economy?
Without anyone to replace the retraitees we are forced to hire immigrants, witch like Montreal knows by now build a bigger population. (With the very low unemployement rate.) Added to the fact that for most immigrants Montreal might seem "full" and we get more immigration naturally.

My near retired dad hires full time for the government so I have a pretty clear picture of what kind of staff get hired etc. On most interviews these days theres 8-9 immigrant(Europe, french africa) prospect and 1-2 native.


Last edited by SOLR: 07-20-2006 at 01:22 PM.
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07-20-2006, 01:20 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by J-D View Post
Exactly. A decreasing working force is recipe for economic stagnation, not a rebound!
You cant be more wrong! Quebec City is a city you retire too as opposed to a city your work at. (This is somewhat changing along with the growth but still, Quebec is a secure, clean city compared to Montreal with about the same services.

Because we have been exporting talent for so long, a lot are coming back to be in a safer/nicer/less poluted city like Quebec for their retirement, as oppose to the urban/young vibe of Montreal. Added to the immigration because of the very low unemployement rate, you get a productive city, growing at a fast rate with more customers than before.

Try buying a house, condos these days and you will get the picture. Price have for the most part doubled and the occupancy rate is at a historic level. If you remember 5 years ago it was the case for Montreal with the dotcom boom, now we are in that aftershock. Politics is having a big influence as well with the government giving 3-4 times more contract under the liberals than the PQ to companies that are close to the government.(LGS, CGI, Quebec City computer sciences related contractors)

I cant track down the article from the Soleil on economic factors but we have been 2nd behind Calgary in growth for the past 2 years. The simple fact that todays difference between the avg house price in Quebec and Montreal went from 100% to around 30% in those 10 years tells a very accurate estimation.

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07-20-2006, 01:32 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Yeah but the situation is looking much better with Mrs Boucher. The city is no longer focusing only on the retired persons and the pseudo elite.


That said, the growth of Québec is nothing compare to the growth of Edmonton, Calgary, Raleigh etc and there is still NO ONE other than Tanguay that invest in sports. Le Cirque won't make us a 200 millions gift with all the low blows from our governements and La Caisse won't throw away the money of their members either. Quebecor/videotron never invested in sports and nothing indicate that they will start. Specially that they could have bought the Habs for a price similar that to get a team in Quebec.

The population would NEVER accept that the city gives hundreds of millions for an arena even with garantees that Québec would get a team. If Quebec is a big enough market their should be private investors (and there is none).
Gillet's from Montreal? Following your train of thought the habs would be gone. We need a sugar dady, nobody ever said otherwise.(Certainly not me) I dont think we can discount our native investor too quickly, knowing a couple of them.

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07-20-2006, 01:35 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by JiPi View Post
On which station??
CHRC. Lets not panic just yet, its probably nothing. But we certainly cant fail to dream about having sid the kid here.

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07-20-2006, 01:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post

I just learn more details about this rumor on the radio, weird weird, Its been said Red Bull actually bought a big chunk of space near the Gallerie de la Capitale. That being said, maybe its just a skate park of some stuff like this, but there is no official details on what they are planning to do. The plot thickens. Dreams Dreams Dreams.
They want to build a RedBull Café !

Or the RedBull steakhouse.

Anything but an arena

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07-20-2006, 01:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
They want to build a RedBull Café !

Or the RedBull steakhouse.

Anything but an arena
Lol its all possible.

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07-20-2006, 02:07 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Gillet's from Montreal? Following your train of thought the habs would be gone. We need a sugar dady, nobody ever said otherwise.(Certainly not me) I dont think we can discount our native investor too quickly, knowing a couple of them.
It's my point. All those investor could have bought the Habs and they did not. Why would they spend as much money for a team in a MUCH smaller market?


I beleive the Red Bull stuff is mostly a publicity stunt and they are the ONLY ones to have showned any interest.

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07-20-2006, 02:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
It's my point. All those investor could have bought the Habs and they did not. Why would they spend as much money for a team in a MUCH smaller market?


I beleive the Red Bull stuff is mostly a publicity stunt and they are the ONLY ones to have showned any interest.
Publicly. Its one thing to invest 20-30m and another 200m, there is a need for a catalyst somewhere.

The context was still hard when Gillet bought the habs, much have changed in the last 4 years. This is true for all Canada. The federal debts diminishing, the value of our money increasing, our country is in much better shape. Gotta have confidence in the future to invest 200m in anything and looking from todays perspective I think its much easier to have this confidence than 4 years ago. The NHL is also under cost control witch is a big + as well.

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07-20-2006, 03:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Without anyone to replace the retraitees we are forced to hire immigrants, witch like Montreal knows by now build a bigger population. (With the very low unemployement rate.) Added to the fact that for most immigrants Montreal might seem "full" and we get more immigration naturally.

My near retired dad hires full time for the government so I have a pretty clear picture of what kind of staff get hired etc. On most interviews these days theres 8-9 immigrant(Europe, french africa) prospect and 1-2 native.
Yeah, and I assume those fonctionnaires from Sénégal and Tunisia are going to be first in line to buy 100K$ luxury boxes...


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07-20-2006, 03:39 PM
  #91
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SOLR has such rose colored glasses on he cannot see the fact that Quebec is a second or even third tier city in Canada and North America. He uses the 2001 census data in an early post but when I use it he says it is bogus. Do you think a bunch of retired civil servants with a 45,000$ or less pension are going to be buying season tickets? Dream on. Also the immigrants that we are getting in Quebec these days are as mentioned, french africans (not exactly hockey fans), Arabs (again not hockey fans), South Americans (nope no hockey here) and some euros which might be hockey fans.

While a team in Quebec might work and it would be interesting to see the rivalry again, it won't be anytime soon.

Found some more info

News release 03-02
Calgary Leads all Cities in Economic Growth in 2003

OTTAWA, January 14, 2003 – Three western cities, Calgary, Saskatoon, and Edmonton, will lead Canadian cities in economic growth in 2003, according to the Conference Board of Canada’s Metro Outlook-Winter 2003.

Calgary is forecast to post growth of 4.9 per cent in real gross domestic product (GDP) in 2003, and it will also lead all cities over the 2004-2007 period, with growth averaging 3.3 per cent per year. The expected growth in Calgary over the next few years is relatively strong, since its economy is already running at full employment.

"After recording its lowest rate of increase in real GDP in four years in 2002, Calgary will bounce back and be the national leader in real GDP growth in 2003 and over the medium term," said Mario Lefebvre, Associate Director, Metropolitan Outlook.

"Sizeable investments are scheduled for the province’s energy sector and Calgary will likely be a major beneficiary because of its downtown core’s link to the oil and gas sector. This is consistent with a growing sense that the Kyoto Protocol might not have a material effect on the energy sector, at least over the short term."

Saskatoon’s economy will continue to recover from its contraction in 2001, culminating in four per cent growth in 2003. In 2002, the housing industry had its best year since 1987, while employment and retail sales gains were strong.

Strong consumer spending and record-breaking housing starts led to sound economic growth in Edmonton in 2002 and this trend will continue well into 2003, as growth is forecast to reach 3.8 per cent. The city of Edmonton is forecast to average three per cent growth annually from 2004 to 2007.

St. Catharines is forecast to lead all Ontario cities in 2003, with real GDP growth expected to come in at 3.8 per cent. Toronto’s economy is forecast to post 3.7 per cent growth, while growth in London should reach 3.6 per cent.

Sherbrooke and Trois Rivieres will post growth rates of 3.5 per cent and 3.3 per cent respectively, while Regina, Vancouver, and Winnipeg are all forecast to attain growth of about three per cent. Halifax, Ottawa, and Montreal are forecast to achieve growth of 2.9 per cent in 2003, followed closely by Sudbury and Quebec City at 2.7 per cent, and Thunder Bay at 2.5 per cent. Further reduction in public sector employment in Victoria is expected to limit the city’s overall real GDP growth to 1.4 per cent in 2003.

The Metropolitan Outlook, produced three times a year, provides economic insights into 25 census metropolitan areas, their related province and Canada.

Looking at these even more recent numbers, Quebec city is far down in economic growth, even lower then Winnipeg.


Last edited by beowulf: 07-20-2006 at 03:48 PM.
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07-20-2006, 03:43 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Without anyone to replace the retraitees we are forced to hire immigrants, witch like Montreal knows by now build a bigger population. (With the very low unemployement rate.) Added to the fact that for most immigrants Montreal might seem "full" and we get more immigration naturally.

My near retired dad hires full time for the government so I have a pretty clear picture of what kind of staff get hired etc. On most interviews these days theres 8-9 immigrant(Europe, french africa) prospect and 1-2 native.
Does he work for the Canadian government? Last time I check the government does not hire immigrants unless it is a last resort. Any job contest for the government even states that priority will be given to a canadian citizen.

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07-20-2006, 04:14 PM
  #93
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SOLR has such rose colored glasses on he cannot see the fact that Quebec is a second or even third tier city in Canada and North America.
Why do you need to make personnal attacks? Did I ever pretented Quebec was now a city bigger than Montreal? The only thing im saying is that we in Quebec City are on a growth burst. Will it be sustained? The jury is out.

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He uses the 2001 census data in an early post but when I use it he says it is bogus.
Uhh, the only data I used is the manitoba site to point out that already in 2001 before the city merge Quebec was already bigger than Winnipeg, I never said 2001 was relevant as far as I know.

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Do you think a bunch of retired civil servants with a 45,000$ or less pension are going to be buying season tickets? Dream on.
Where do you think they spend their money? In some business? Maybe the guy making the money from those civil servants will buy season tickets? Or maybe 4 of those retired civil servants will group up and buy 1 season tickets and split it up? Added to the fact theres more people, theres more money, more money = more riches. We are talking about 12 000 season tickets to sell. You just seem frustrated by the remote possibility it would be possible to have a team here. Share my opinion or not, I dont care and if you dont live here of course you have no idea what is happening in this city and no need to bash on it. I personnally would buy 2 of the best season tickets, yoohoo only 11998 to sell.

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Also the immigrants that we are getting in Quebec these days are as mentioned, french africans (not exactly hockey fans), Arabs (again not hockey fans), South Americans (nope no hockey here) and some euros which might be hockey fans.
More population, more money, more riches. Pretty simple equation. In a hockey town with an immigration that is not regionalized like Montreal we are still integrating our immigrants much more, meaning we might find some new customers in those immigrants.

(I dont see why we couldnt get a CFL franchise also with the crownds at the R&O games, same problem, we would need a stadium.)

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While a team in Quebec might work and it would be interesting to see the rivalry again, it won't be anytime soon.
Your opinion, I respect it and you may be right.

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07-20-2006, 04:20 PM
  #94
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Does he work for the Canadian government? Last time I check the government does not hire immigrants unless it is a last resort. Any job contest for the government even states that priority will be given to a canadian citizen.
He works for the Quebec Government, the biggest employer in Quebec City.(Ottawa will get a lower boost because of the big pre-retirement programs if I remember what my Dad told me, but they will still get the same kind of boost.)

We dont have a choice 6 times out of 10 nowadays and the 2 of the 4 remaining are people from Montreal. In the last year on the 200 hiring he made 80% had a immigration to Quebec City factor in it.

Hiring myself I see the same thing, those available on the market here are so low value, I prefer paying more for someone with experience in Montreal. Creating immigration, the same way Montreal have been taking most of our talents in the 90's

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07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
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Bah if you all want to make it a number war, ur choice, ill retire from this discussion. Ive said it all along, the arrival of the liberals in 2003 was the extra spark with other factors building on each other. The number we get from Quebec Commercial Chamber are around 4.5% (Calgary passing 5%) for the 2 last year, before those 2 years the growth was in the Canadian avg. 2.5-3.0% maybe by itself sufficient to create enought wealth for a team.

Im just giving you the pulse I get from the city being a business man with contacts. You want to diss me for it, ridicule me, go right ahead, im your man. This makes me remember the nature of the old rivalry.

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07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
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Bah if you all want to make it a number war, ur choice, ill retire from this discussion. Ive said it all along, the arrival of the liberals in 2003 was the extra spark with other factors building on each other. The number we get from Quebec Commercial Chamber are around 4.5% (Calgary passing 5%) for the 2 last year, before those 2 years the growth was in the Canadian avg. 2.5-3.0% maybe by itself sufficient to create enought wealth for a team.

Im just giving you the pulse I get from the city being a business man with contacts. You want to diss me for it, ridicule me, go right ahead, im your man. This makes me remember the nature of the old rivalry.
I've been living here all my life, and to be honest it seems you live in a complete different city, it's astonishing. It's weird you're seeing such a boom in this town, because like i posted before, every single person with broad interets and ambition I know is fleeing from here.

Quote:
Where do you think they spend their money? In some business? Maybe the guy making the money from those civil servants will buy season tickets? Or maybe 4 of those retired civil servants will group up and buy 1 season tickets and split it up?
Oh man this is not optimism, it's just ridiculous. I understand you have really good intentions but hell...

It seems that everything in this town should lead to the coming of a hockey team and a new arena. It's really weird how you think, you sound like a talk-radio host/sport fan, that's the closest i've ever been to hearing what you say lol.

But yeah, I understand you really want it and willing to put your money where your mouth is (which is a rarity around here), so I it's cool with me.

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07-20-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Yes for sure, that a part of my argument as well.

I just don't think you should put NHL teams in non-major Canadian cities. Quebec has one in Montreal and I think that's all it can support. I don't think there should be one in Hamilton either. Winnepeg is hockey starved and they deserve a team bigtime. Quebec has it's team, it doesn't need another one.

Although to be honest, I would welcome a team in QC if it meant no more *****ing about Quebecers on the Habs (they could ***** about Quebecers on the Nords instead).
LOL Like Winnipeg didn't have a teams already either? And yes, all of a sudden MTL will stop taking Quebecers...just because. Yeah, that makes SOOOOO much sense.

[Edit] Don't get me wrong though, I don't disagree that Winnipeg will probably get a team before Quebec. I just thought that those two arguments of yours were pretty laughable.


Last edited by Moester: 07-20-2006 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Extra thought.
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07-20-2006, 05:37 PM
  #98
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Your talking about retired quebec civil servants? They even have a smaller pension. You do realize the the Quebec Government pays squat? I'll give you an example, a person working at revunue quebecin the tax department was making about $35,000 (this might have changed I am not sure of the new collective agreement) and the same person at revenue Canada makes around $50,000.

I like your idea of a CFL team though. It is much more realistic and would be great to see.

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07-20-2006, 05:51 PM
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http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

Here's the attendance stuff a poster was looking for. Despite being the doormat of the league, the Nordiques almost ALWAYS sold out.

That's pretty damn impressive.

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07-20-2006, 06:22 PM
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Good points.



I would even say it was the biggest rivalry of all sports of all time.
Uh no. Arsenal vs Tottenham in the EPL is by far the worst. There have been street fights and near riots between their supporters and the situation is not helped by having their home stadiums a few miles apart in London. And this rivalry dates back to like 1919. Way, way worse than anything the NHL can serve up.

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