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Goaltending discussion thread (edit: Markstrom called up)

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:35 AM
  #401
RainingRats
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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
Shore played 18 games last year and 41 this year not exactly a long time in the AHL. He just took the spot when they called him up and was better than everybody else. He is the number one center on the team right now.
He also played 3 years in college. Forwards don't take as much time to develop as goalies. Tallon and Co. were 100% patient with Shore and it shows. Under any old regime, they would have pushed for him to come out of college early, imo.

Shawn Matthias should have spent at least three straight years in the AHL to develop his offensive game. If he was still property of Detroit I guarantee you they would have kept him down longer than we did. Detroit is the most patient organization and no matter where they draft they always get talent. It's scouting and proper development. No reason we can't develop prospects like they do.


Last edited by RainingRats: 03-02-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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03-02-2013, 10:38 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I don't think that's a good example.
I do. Three years in college is a lot for a guy who has had NHL size and NHL ability for the past couple of years. I've followed him closely and he could have played on the third or fourth line two years ago. Under old regimes they would have convinced him to leave college early.

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03-02-2013, 05:34 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I do. Three years in college is a lot for a guy who has had NHL size and NHL ability for the past couple of years. I've followed him closely and he could have played on the third or fourth line two years ago. Under old regimes they would have convinced him to leave college early.
You can't just pull a player out of college without their willingness, though. Shore came up to the AHL and played half a season. He hasn't been rushed (because he's performing well at the NHL level), but Shore wasn't exactly waited on patiently. If so, he wouldn't have been a call up to begin with. He'd finish a season at the AHL level and earn his spot in the pre-season.

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03-02-2013, 07:54 PM
  #404
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All moot. Clearly clemmer is not an NHL caliber goalie anymore, and Markstrom is on his way up.

A new era finally begins albeit likely too late to save this yr.

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03-02-2013, 08:18 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
All moot. Clearly clemmer is not an NHL caliber goalie anymore, and Markstrom is on his way up.

A new era finally begins albeit likely too late to save this yr.
We're 5 out of 8th and about to be 5 out of the division with 4 games left in the 1st half of the season.

The Panthers might suck, but if it were solely on a goaltender's hands, it's far from being too late to save a season.

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03-02-2013, 08:49 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
We're 5 out of 8th and about to be 5 out of the division with 4 games left in the 1st half of the season.

The Panthers might suck, but if it were solely on a goaltender's hands, it's far from being too late to save a season.
The 'loser point' makes the standings deceiving.

5 points is a lot to make up.

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03-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #407
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03-02-2013, 08:57 PM
  #408
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George Richards ‏@GeorgeRichards

Jacob Markstrom on way to #FlaPanthers as Dineen says Theodore out for some time; D Nolan Yonkman probably also coming up for Kulikov

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03-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
We're 5 out of 8th and about to be 5 out of the division with 4 games left in the 1st half of the season.

The Panthers might suck, but if it were solely on a goaltender's hands, it's far from being too late to save a season.
After tonight, we're the 2nd worst team in the entire NHL. Columbus is the only team we're ahead of, and they are now only 3 points behind us with the same number of games played.

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03-02-2013, 09:01 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by freakstar View Post
George Richards ‏@GeorgeRichards

Jacob Markstrom on way to #FlaPanthers as Dineen says Theodore out for some time; D Nolan Yonkman probably also coming up for Kulikov
markstrom starts tomorrow, yonkman takes kuli's spot

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03-02-2013, 09:09 PM
  #411
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I think what Dr. Beinfest is saying is that certain teams have the talent to pull off the occasional winning streak and get back into a playoff race.

However, this team sucks.

I think that's what he's saying. The problems are bigger than the goaltending, although goaltending is the biggest problem at this point.

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03-02-2013, 09:18 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I think what Dr. Beinfest is saying is that certain teams have the talent to pull off the occasional winning streak and get back into a playoff race.

However, this team sucks.

I think that's what he's saying. The problems are bigger than the goaltending, although goaltending is the biggest problem at this point.
List of big problems:
1. team defense
2. lack of scoring
3. goaltending
4. lack of physicality

Goaltending issues are glaring now, but remember that earlier this season it was the only thing that was working.

The team continues to give up too many quality scoring chances.

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03-02-2013, 09:19 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
We're 5 out of 8th and about to be 5 out of the division with 4 games left in the 1st half of the season.

The Panthers might suck, but if it were solely on a goaltender's hands, it's far from being too late to save a season.
Our inconsistency over the first 20 games clearly illustrates that this team just doesn't have it this year and that we are done. Like I said 10 games ago, time to call a spade a spade.

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03-02-2013, 09:21 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
List of big problems:
1. team defense
2. lack of scoring
3. goaltending
4. lack of physicality

Goaltending issues are glaring now, but remember that earlier this season it was the only thing that was working.

The team continues to give up too many quality scoring chances.
It was never working, really.
Maybe for the first 3-4 games.

The goaltending is garbage. It's currently a bigger problem than lack of scoring actually.

And at this point, the team defense might be breaking down because they realize the goalies can't make a save to save their lives.

Over the past couple of weeks, there have been several games in which the Panthers could've gotten two points were it not for mediocre to downright terrible goaltending.

At least our best goaltender is playing tomorrow, though.

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03-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I think what Dr. Beinfest is saying is that certain teams have the talent to pull off the occasional winning streak and get back into a playoff race.

However, this team sucks.

I think that's what he's saying. The problems are bigger than the goaltending, although goaltending is the biggest problem at this point.
Absolutely what I'm saying. If it were just goaltending, 5 points is nothing. I would be rejoicing right now. But sadly, it's not 'too little too late'. It was never set to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely counting it off, but being realistic... goaltending is just what makes these games blowouts, not losses.

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03-02-2013, 09:54 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
The 'loser point' makes the standings deceiving.

5 points is a lot to make up.
If I recall correctly, we made the playoffs on the 'loser point' statistic. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

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03-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
If I recall correctly, we made the playoffs on the 'loser point' statistic. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
The Pantherswould have made it even in a 3pts for a win, 2 for OT win and 1 for OT loss.

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03-02-2013, 10:02 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
If I recall correctly, we made the playoffs on the 'loser point' statistic. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
You have it backwards.

We made the playoffs because we built a big lead and the loser point made it difficult for other teams to catch up.

This year, we need to catch up... and the 'loser point' makes that very difficult.

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03-02-2013, 10:08 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
You have it backwards.

We made the playoffs because we built a big lead and the loser point made it difficult for other teams to catch up.

This year, we need to catch up... and the 'loser point' makes that very difficult.
Does it really make a difference though? We lost 4 more games than the team we took the division title from by 1 game. The loser point still gave us the division title.

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03-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #420
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Does it really make a difference though? We lost 4 more games than the team we took the division title from by 1 game. The loser point still gave us the division title.
... which doesn't change the fact that the 'loser point' makes coming back from a 5 point deficit much more difficult than most people realize.

It's not "only" 5 points. 5 points is a lot.

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03-02-2013, 10:34 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
... which doesn't change the fact that the 'loser point' makes coming back from a 5 point deficit much more difficult than most people realize.

It's not "only" 5 points. 5 points is a lot.
Of course! I think you're misinterpreting my approach a little bit. I agree with you. But I understand it might be a little difficult to understand what I write because I might seem quite contradictory. I'm just trying to be objective though. I don't think this team stands any real chance. I was just saying that IF the goaltending was the only answer, 5 points was no big deal considering Markstrom was being called up.

5 points is not a lot for a team that has theoretically just fixed their only issue (even though that's not the case). I understand 5 points requires a total change in attitude of a team (more like a 1st place team) to overcome.

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03-02-2013, 10:47 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Of course! I think you're misinterpreting my approach a little bit. I agree with you. But I understand it might be a little difficult to understand what I write because I might seem quite contradictory. I'm just trying to be objective though. I don't think this team stands any real chance. I was just saying that IF the goaltending was the only answer, 5 points was no big deal considering Markstrom was being called up.

5 points is not a lot for a team that has theoretically just fixed their only issue (even though that's not the case). I understand 5 points requires a total change in attitude of a team (more like a 1st place team) to overcome.
I see what you are saying now... but 5 points is a lot for any team ... especially when it has several teams to jump - even if goaltending was the only issue.

With 27 games left, if there was only one team ahead of you, and that team went 13-13-1, you would need to be 16-10-1 to pass them.... and that's only one team playing .500 hockey. One or more of the 4 teams ahead of you in the division or the 6 teams ahead of you in the #8 race will do better than that.

To reach the 55 points where the Panthers statistically would have a good playoff chance, they'd have to go 18-7-2 from here on

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03-02-2013, 11:31 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by freakstar View Post
George Richards ‏@GeorgeRichards

Jacob Markstrom on way to #FlaPanthers as Dineen says Theodore out for some time; D Nolan Yonkman probably also coming up for Kulikov
That's just great. What happens if Markstrom plays poor now? Do we fall into Vancouver's spider web?

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03-02-2013, 11:48 PM
  #424
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That's just great. What happens if Markstrom plays poor now? Do we fall into Vancouver's spider web?
I think if the team trades for Luongo and gives up significant assets, it would be a sign that the business side (read Yormark) has pulled a power move on hockey ops (read Tallon).

Needless to say that would be a very bad sign.

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03-03-2013, 12:48 AM
  #425
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That's just great. What happens if Markstrom plays poor now? Do we fall into Vancouver's spider web?
I don't see why Markstrom would play poorly. I mean eventually he will go into a funk, but he's played well in almost every game he's been in the NHL, and he had two great games recently.

Tallon knows the season is done. Not only is he not going to trade future assets for Luongo which would be pointless since we are 29th in the league, he's going to start selling soon to gain more future assets. Besides, we've seen what Markstrom can do. We know he's our guy for the next several years.

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