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Old
03-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #101
hockeydoug
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Each team has 2 compliance buyouts. If you don't use it this summer (2013), you have to use it next summer or they'll expire (essentially). If Montador and Olesz are both healthy, they'll both be compliance boughtout. The only way Montador isn't bought out is if, for some reason, a team wants to trade for him.. but, given his concussion history, that would likely scare away teams looking to get to the cap floor because it serves them no good to have Montador on LTIR.
They have after this season AND next season to use the two buyouts. Some teams are going to be in "cap hell" and there will be opportunities to really use buyouts in more creative ways. I don't want both buyouts burned unless it's going to be done to make room for a forward that would be considered the 4th or 5th best on the team at least.

If there is good reason to believe that Montador's career is not in jeopardy, I don't think his cap hit (in relation to real value) is big enough to justify buying him out unless a very big opportunity presents itself. If he gets another concussion he goes to LTIR and he will not significantly hinder player movement. If not, his contract will have value one way or the other since his salary is significantly lower than his cap hit to finish his contract.

Anyway, I want them to save the buyout for the sake of a high end opportunity, not just to retain a bottom 6 forward. I don't see them being able to land any of the big pending UFAs this year.

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03-01-2013, 03:50 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Each team has 2 compliance buyouts. If you don't use it this summer (2013), you have to use it next summer or they'll expire (essentially). If Montador and Olesz are both healthy, they'll both be compliance boughtout. The only way Montador isn't bought out is if, for some reason, a team wants to trade for him.. but, given his concussion history, that would likely scare away teams looking to get to the cap floor because it serves them no good to have Montador on LTIR.
I could be wrong, but teams don't HAVE to put players on LTIR, do they? Montador would serve a purpose, history or not in that scenario. Either he's healthy enough to play at a salary lower than his cap hit, or he's injured and still counts as a cap hit anyway.

I would think Frolik and Montador are attractive pieces for salary floor teams. Trade them for 6 or 7th round picks.

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03-01-2013, 05:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I could be wrong, but teams don't HAVE to put players on LTIR, do they? Montador would serve a purpose, history or not in that scenario. Either he's healthy enough to play at a salary lower than his cap hit, or he's injured and still counts as a cap hit anyway.

I would think Frolik and Montador are attractive pieces for salary floor teams. Trade them for 6 or 7th round picks.
No, unless there is a CBA change. We've seen teams carry injured players for extended periods plenty of times.

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03-02-2013, 11:44 AM
  #104
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I think Monty can be traded. They'll buyout Olesz when they can

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03-02-2013, 02:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
They have after this season AND next season to use the two buyouts. Some teams are going to be in "cap hell" and there will be opportunities to really use buyouts in more creative ways. I don't want both buyouts burned unless it's going to be done to make room for a forward that would be considered the 4th or 5th best on the team at least.

If there is good reason to believe that Montador's career is not in jeopardy, I don't think his cap hit (in relation to real value) is big enough to justify buying him out unless a very big opportunity presents itself. If he gets another concussion he goes to LTIR and he will not significantly hinder player movement. If not, his contract will have value one way or the other since his salary is significantly lower than his cap hit to finish his contract.

Anyway, I want them to save the buyout for the sake of a high end opportunity, not just to retain a bottom 6 forward. I don't see them being able to land any of the big pending UFAs this year.
Are you suggesting the Hawks trade for players just to buy them out? I didn't think the CBA allowed for that. Even if it does, I HIGHLY doubt the Hawks brass will sign off on that when there are two perfectly good candidates (Montador, Olesz) for buyouts on the Hawks roster currently.

The theory of poorer teams trading for high cap, low salary players just to make the cap floor just doesn't pan out in real life. There are usually good enough players on the UFA market for teams to spend their money. Also with the lowering of the cap AND the floor I doubt many teams are struggling to hit the floor.

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:36 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
Are you suggesting the Hawks trade for players just to buy them out? I didn't think the CBA allowed for that.
Not directly, and we haven't seen all the language of the next CBA so I'm not speculating on any specifics other than clubs with deep pockets will have opportunities to exploit. Buyout options may help them do that one way or the other.

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Even if it does, I HIGHLY doubt the Hawks brass will sign off on that when there are two perfectly good candidates (Montador, Olesz) for buyouts on the Hawks roster currently.
Olesz is an excellent candidate. Montador may or may not be, we don't know yet.

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The theory of poorer teams trading for high cap, low salary players just to make the cap floor just doesn't pan out in real life.
We just saw it happen. There haven't been many opportunities for front loaded contracts to move yet. We don't know how it will really play out since front loading contracts (even by a few hundred K variance) didn't really become a regular practice until a few seasons ago.

Most, like Briere or Heatley have NTCs or NMCs. Frolik, Gilbert, and Montador examples are fairly rare. STL, NYI, NAS, COL, and a number of other teams are penny pinching on payroll whenever they can on a given year. It's not just about the floor, it's just about the bottom line.

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Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
There are usually good enough players on the UFA market for teams to spend their money. Also with the lowering of the cap AND the floor I doubt many teams are struggling to hit the floor.
It's more about the bottom line than the floor. Teams like Chicago, PHI, MTL, etc. don't flinch at 400k, but a team in the red tracks all the payroll dollars. We can assume this because they stall on roster moves after injuries on a regular basis, and we can see their spending history.

Montador's health is the biggest factor, and then his limited NTC. It may not be best to buy him out right away.

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
We arent playing for 5years from now, we are playing to win in the next 2 or 3 years.

Leddy is a bottom pairing Dman on this team, Bolland is an average #2C or amazing #3C. Depth dmen are harder to find than shutdown Cmen.

Bolland over Leddy all day, now and in 3-5 years.
Except bolland has back problems and is consistently hurt, I'm willing to believe someone In our pipeline will be able to fill his role

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03-03-2013, 10:27 AM
  #108
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Except bolland has back problems and is consistently hurt, I'm willing to believe someone In our pipeline will be able to fill his role
Someone in our system can shut down some of the best players in the league in the next 2-5 years??? Who?

I love Danault, but he won't be able to do that anytime soon.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:05 AM
  #109
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we will not know this. could happen, could not happen.

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03-03-2013, 11:06 AM
  #110
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Bolland doesn't come as a guy looking to get paid as much as possible by the highest bidder. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed a very similar deal to the he already has.

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03-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Bolland doesn't come as a guy looking to get paid as much as possible by the highest bidder. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed a very similar deal to the he already has.
I always think this and say it too, then I look at what a guy like Brooks Laich signed for.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:25 AM
  #112
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forget about something like this... he will get 4.5+ and he won't sign for less. He'd be stupid if he accepts less. Sorry to say this but he will get a raise and if it's not us, it will be a different team. Maybe he signs for 4.5 with us while other teams offer him 5.2 or something like this.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:32 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Someone in our system can shut down some of the best players in the league in the next 2-5 years??? Who?

I love Danault, but he won't be able to do that anytime soon.
their names are shaw, stalberg and bickell and combined they make less than bolland does now.


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Old
03-03-2013, 11:34 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
their names are shaw, stalberg and bickell and combined they make less than bolland does now.

As far as I can tell, they aren't always playing the other teams top lines.

Not only that, lets see what they make combined after this season.

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03-03-2013, 11:39 AM
  #115
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Someone in our system can shut down some of the best players in the league in the next 2-5 years??? Who?

I love Danault, but he won't be able to do that anytime soon.
kruger is already well on his way, he's the better PKer and is much more defensively responsible. He obviously doesn't have the agitator/grittyness that Bolland brings (and never will), but he'll be paid less than half of what Bolland is.

That said, I'm ok with keeping Bolland, but make no mistake about it, you won't see a longterm upgrade at #2 center while Bolland is on the team, unless Kruger's offensive game really takes off and you can slot Bolland back down on line 3.

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Old
03-04-2013, 06:11 AM
  #116
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Krüger is already on the ice against other teams 1st lines with Bollig and Frolik as his Wingers. That just tells you how much Q likes and trusts him.

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03-04-2013, 10:11 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Central PA Hawk Fan View Post
kruger is already well on his way, he's the better PKer and is much more defensively responsible. He obviously doesn't have the agitator/grittyness that Bolland brings (and never will), but he'll be paid less than half of what Bolland is.

That said, I'm ok with keeping Bolland, but make no mistake about it, you won't see a longterm upgrade at #2 center while Bolland is on the team, unless Kruger's offensive game really takes off and you can slot Bolland back down on line 3.
Kruger is not more defensively responsible than Bolland. Anyone thinking Kruger can replace Bolland and will shut down the other teams top players is severley underrating Bolland.

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03-04-2013, 12:51 PM
  #118
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I think there will not be another Bolland. But a player that fills the same role in a different manner. He has not had a full season in how long? Does a team financially pay him $4.5 for 3 years for 2/3 a season and hope he is healthy playoff time? That is a tough decision. And to claim he is the only guy that can get us to the promised land may I remind you we have not progressed from the first round the last two years.

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03-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #119
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I think there will not be another Bolland. But a player that fills the same role in a different manner. He has not had a full season in how long? Does a team financially pay him $4.5 for 3 years for 2/3 a season and hope he is healthy playoff time? That is a tough decision. And to claim he is the only guy that can get us to the promised land may I remind you we have not progressed from the first round the last two years.
We haven't had a healthy line-up in the playoffs since the Cup win either.

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03-04-2013, 02:04 PM
  #120
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we weren't healthy during the Cup run. At least Johnsson missed time

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03-04-2013, 03:01 PM
  #121
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It's hard for me to understand the feeling of so many Hawk fans regarding Stalberg.

Looking at Stalberg's game since the Hawks acquired him, it is without dispute that he has gotten better every season, including this season over last season. He is better along the boards and in the corners this season. He is better at getting and keeping the puck. His stick handling and passing are better. He is hitting more this season and is a better forechecker. His defense and backchecking have improved and can no longer be seen as liabilities. His quickness is almost on a par with his speed. He is seeing the play better and making better decisions.

The play he made to get the puck to Kane for the tying goal against Detroit was amazing. He out-quicked three Detroit players who were all closer to the puck and made a perfect pass to Kane. Not very many players across the league have the quickness to make that play.

He is on pace for another 20+ goal season (projected 82 games) while playing on the 3rd line. His most effective position is RW but with Kane and Hossa, he isn't going to be in the top-6, but he is the engine that makes the 3rd line go.

Optimistic projections for any of the Hawk's prospects would be to get to the point where Stalberg is right now, and none of them have the speed/size combination Stalberg has.

Why any Hawk fan doesn't think he is worth $3M and just casually writes him off is beyond me. Stalberg has become a very good player and has the potential to keep getting better. It should be a priority to lock him up long term.

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03-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #122
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Why any Hawk fan doesn't think he is worth $3M and just casually writes him off is beyond me. Stalberg has become a very good player and has the potential to keep getting better. It should be a priority to lock him up long term.
He is worth it, just not on this team. There just isn't room to add another $3+ mil guy to this roster with the cap coming down.

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03-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
It's hard for me to understand the feeling of so many Hawk fans regarding Stalberg.

Looking at Stalberg's game since the Hawks acquired him, it is without dispute that he has gotten better every season, including this season over last season. He is better along the boards and in the corners this season. He is better at getting and keeping the puck. His stick handling and passing are better. He is hitting more this season and is a better forechecker. His defense and backchecking have improved and can no longer be seen as liabilities. His quickness is almost on a par with his speed. He is seeing the play better and making better decisions.

The play he made to get the puck to Kane for the tying goal against Detroit was amazing. He out-quicked three Detroit players who were all closer to the puck and made a perfect pass to Kane. Not very many players across the league have the quickness to make that play.

He is on pace for another 20+ goal season (projected 82 games) while playing on the 3rd line. His most effective position is RW but with Kane and Hossa, he isn't going to be in the top-6, but he is the engine that makes the 3rd line go.

Optimistic projections for any of the Hawk's prospects would be to get to the point where Stalberg is right now, and none of them have the speed/size combination Stalberg has.

Why any Hawk fan doesn't think he is worth $3M and just casually writes him off is beyond me. Stalberg has become a very good player and has the potential to keep getting better. It should be a priority to lock him up long term.
Stalbergs progress in all aspects of his game, his fleet footedness and versatility make him a keeper IMO. I reckon Stan will find a way to sign him. It may take some creativity and I'm sure some folks here might not like it too much but it will likely involve a buyout and at least one trade me thinks (probably for draft picks), and could mean Mayers retires, with some (gritty) youth joining the bottom 6.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:57 PM
  #124
Ace Rothstein
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He is worth it, just not on this team. There just isn't room to add another $3+ mil guy to this roster with the cap coming down.
This. Unfortunately it looks like Stalberg is going to be another cap casualty.

I'm slightly bitter that the Hawks ownership situation turned around after the cap was implemented. Although who knows how things would have turned out for them if there was no cap in place.

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Old
03-04-2013, 04:08 PM
  #125
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Bolland is expendable, especially at $3.4m. It's great cause he has value too.

Shaw is a Bolland

Kruger is a Bolland, not physical...but he's certainly not afraid

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